Its a fair point but I’m very confident my dad will be true to his word.
From Lehigh’s website:
IS AN IBE DEGREE A “REAL” ENGINEERING DEGREE?
The 4 year IBE degree is not an engineering degree, but rather is an accredited business degree. Assuming an IBE student majors in an engineering discipline, he or she is roughly 15 to 20 credits short (depending on major) of satisfying the requirements for an engineering degree. Thus a 4 year IBE student will finish a complete business degree and most of an engineering degree.
The 5 year dual degree program is designed for students seeking both an IBE degree and an Engineering degree. By a Lehigh University rule, one must earn an additional 30 credits beyond the first bachelor’s degree to obtain a second bachelors degree. The typical engineering major requires about 134 credits for graduation, while the IBE program requires 137. Thus to get two degrees, one would typically need about 164 credits, or about 27 additional credits past the IBE degree (30 credits past the engineering degree). One additional year, or one semester plus one summer would typically be required to complete the second degree. This calculation assumes that the student’s IBE major is in the same engineering field as the second engineering degree. The exact number of additional credits required will vary a bit depending on major. To learn more about major specific curriculum requirements, click here.
To become a registered (i.e. licensed) Professional Engineer (PE), one must have an accredited engineering degree. If this is your goal, but you are still interested in IBE, you should consider the dual degree program. In the business world the term “engineer” is often used loosely, and being a licensed professional engineer (PE) is not always crucial. If you plan to work in Civil or Mechanical engineering for example, then being a PE is a necessity. On the contrary, few Industrial Engineering or Computer Science majors take the exam required to become a PE. Further, if you wanted to go to graduate school in an engineering field, we are confident that an IBE degree with a major in an engineering field would be sufficient. In many cases, students are able to fulfill the requirement for the dual degree program by either entering with several AP credits or by taking classes in the summer or winter. To learn more about Lehigh’s credit policy, click here
If your goal is to become a practicing engineer, then you should get an engineering degree (either through the dual degree program or the conventional engineering programs). If you goal is to work in the technical side of business, or on the interfaces between business and engineering, you should consider the IBE program. Also see “What does an IBE degree qualify one to do upon graduation?” above.
My S19 is in the 5 year dual degree program. Students in IBE with a focus on Industrial Engineering do the 4 year program.
Good luck on the visit’s @121IllinoisDad. My D is a year after you guys, but will be starting the college visits soon. Rolling admissions start at Alabama in August, I believe. After your September visit if your son chooses to apply you’ll be able to go ahead and lock in admissions, scholarships, and Honor’s College acceptance to have as a pretty nice safety while you figure the rest out. Let us know how it plays out, and especially if your S applies for something like RSS, mentioned by an earlier poster.
@Mwfan1921. How do you do 187 credits in 4 years? Standard 128 for engineering is a challenge but doable
This post has kind of morphed from a discussion on the search to one of cost vs value but I’ll add one more thought here. The whole Alabama scholarship suggestion did change my original thinking from “how do I this college search and find the best school for my son?” to “how do I get the most value for my son’s dollar?” I think both are valid/important questions. I’ll just add one more wrinkle to this. After I started looking at Alabama, my next question was whether he might be able to keep enough of his 529 intact to eventually pay for his MBA. The answer is a resounding no. Per Kellogg’s website, the COA is $105K per year. $210K for an MBA seems pretty ridiculous. I’m sure not all programs are that expensive but wow. Just wow.
All of this is making me think more and more that I should strongly encourage my son to prioritize cost in his college evaluation. Even if he graduates from college debt free, he has another $200K or more on the horizon. I don’t want him to have a boat anchor of debt around his neck from his MBA (which I likely would not fund).
There needs to be some disruption in higher ed. These costs are getting out of hand.
What MBA cost $200,000?
As another tip and something to think about. Going international for MBA. I have seen costs at very excellent programs for $25,000-35,000 for an MBA. One incorporated a lot of Tech stuff etc. These program are like 30% American the rest international and their professors are from University of Chicago, WashU, Wharton, Stanford etc.
Ps… Going on tangents away from the original topic is common but hopefully useful in your case.
Also FYI. If the applications for Iowa State and on the same form check Iowa are out now, You will get your acceptance next week. Nice to just know you have a safety now to take any future pressure off of him and you. Just saying… ?.
Agree. I think Iowa State should seriously be on the radar.
I hate to keep sounding like I’ve been drinking the Alabama kool-aid but I’ve been looking at it a lot, so…
https://manderson.culverhouse.ua.edu/programs/mba-programs/stem-path-to-the-mba/
They do have a program for rolling straight from Engineering degree(Or a few others) into an MBA. It adds one year of college and blends MBA courses into your senior year while pursuing the Engineering degree. It’s relatively affordable, though less so for out-of-state (That second year would be non-resident tuition of about 30K, plus room, board, and other expenses), but I’ll let you look at it all yourself.
Does Alabama allow scholarship to be used for grad school? Seem recall kids graduating in 3 years and using 4th year of scholarship to pay for grad school. Maybe that is Oklahoma?
@Knowsstuff, I only looked at Kellogg but I assume all the top ones are similar. First year estimated expense is $105K with only the computer and first year student fee unlikely to be repeated in year 2. I suspect merit based scholarships are tough to get when everyone at these schools will be so talented.
https://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/programs/full-time-mba/tuition-financial-aid.aspx
@saillakeerie , Alabama’s scholarship makes it unclear if unused funds for all of these scholarships can roll into grad school. It does state under the “Presidential” (32+ ACT) scholarship that this is allowed but ironically there is no mention under the “Presidential Elite” (36 ACT). My assumption is yes but that is just an assumption.
" and >40% with ACTs over 30 (both facts posted on their website) I’m hoping the school has an academic and national feel to it. Doing the math, there are more than 13,000 kids with 30s or higher on their ACTs. I have to believe that rivals the traditionally “good” state schools like Michigan & UCLA (assumption)"
UA has 38% over 30 ACT with a 25/75 of 23/31, with SAT 25/75 of 1060/1183, UCLA is 70% over a 30, with an ACT 25/75 of 28/34 and SATs at 1270/1520. UM has over 80% at 30 ACT, and 25/75 of 30/34, SAT 25/75 of 1330/1510, these are all from the CDS. Those are significant differences, 70 or 80% to 38% and the 1060 25% SAT would have to give you pause if you’re looking at these kinds of things.
And be careful of websites having to be factual, they don’t, however it would be good to be factual when reporting to the government which the CDS captures.
@121IllinoisDad
I only suggested researching Lehigh bc you wrote:
8) Intends to pursue an engineering degree but as a trojan horse to get into business. So it’ll likely be something like IE
Many students in IBE 4 year program focus on IE. It’s not a bargain school like Alabama, you stated that full price school may be an option if it’s the right school.
Concerning Alabama, I don’t anything about the engineering school, but there are several experts on CC who are. My son’s friend got the full ride + research money; his major is finance. He preferred a different big 10 out of state school where he was full pay, but his parents really wanted him to go to Alabama. To sweeten the pot, they gave him all of his college fund which was in the 6 figures. This student is doing very well - academically and socially. Just finished his 2nd year and is currently interning at an investment firm in Birmingham and has next summer’s internship in NYC already confirmed. I know many will say you can’t trust a kid with that much money. This student is very responsible and have invested wisely.
@Knowsstuff Yes, Lehigh’s dual program is 5 years but many finish in 4 1/2, especially if students have AP credits. It may not be right program for all students, but it is for mine. He’s taken advantage of all the school offers.
@theloniusmonk , good information. Thank you. Even though I referenced Michigan & UCLA (both schools we have or will visit), truthfully my thought here was: “If my son goes to a lesser school for financial reasons, at least there is a critical mass of pretty smart kids at this one.” If we do decide to focus on cost, I just don’t want it to come at the expense of him enjoying college. To be less prescriptive regarding Alabama (which we’ve not even visited), if affordability becomes a driving factor, which colleges/universities have a reputation for good merit aid/low tuition while also offering a critical mass of bright kids with which he can surround himself? The recommendations I’ve seen so far are Alabama, Illinois (home state), Pitt, Iowa State.
The reason schools like Alabama give merit scholarships to certain students is because those kids are way above the average at the university. Schools with very high average ACT or SAT scores don’t give merit. If it’s important for the student to be surrounded by similar students, then Alabama may not be the place. The kids might be more like him academically if he’s an engineering major but the students as a whole will be different than, say, the student body at Michigan. If that’s not important to him, then no biggie! But for some kids, it matters.
Earning a large merit scholarship generally means that the student is in the top of the range of academic qualifications compared to the students overall. So if the student prefers there to be a “critical mass” of other students with similar academic qualifications at a college where s/he earns a large merit scholarship, such a “critical mass” is more likely to be found at a large school than at a small school.
For example, if the large merit scholarship is given to 5% of incoming frosh, at a school with 5,000 frosh, there will be 250 large merit scholarship students. But at a school with 500 frosh, there will be only 25 large merit scholarship students. Of course, the number/percentage of frosh getting large merit scholarships varies from one school to another.
I agree with @homerdog. Chasing merit means you need to be above that 75th percentile. Doesn’t mean there won’t be other very smart kids that you will be with but the percentage of kids will be a lot less than at a school like say Vanderbilt or WashU. Your son will need to decide what’s most important to him.
“If my son goes to a lesser school for financial reasons, at least there is a critical mass of pretty smart kids at this one.”
I think you should stop referring to schools as ‘lesser.’ A school may not offer what you (son) wants, but it doesn’t make it a lesser school. It may have exactly what another student wants or needs.
Engineering kids will tend to be with engineering kids. More so that the general population of the university at large.