Parent’s right on college student grades?

Parents Forum
81

<p>Nobody said we had no interest in their grades. What I said was that when I am interested, I ask them. I don't understand why we need to go through the school. If I have to get their written consent to get their information, I think there is a communication problem. For four years times three boys (plus one semester) I never got my information on how or what they were doing through the school. I simply asked them.</p>

82

<p>I guess what is bothering me a bit, mini, is what I perceive to be an underlying objection (of some, not necessarily you) to colleges changing their approach on making parental notification "automatic" or "default". It seems to me that if parents do not want to know, or think it is none of their business, or are afraid to know, they can just throw away the envelope.</p>

<p>I do, in fact, trust my son to let us know if a major problem has arisen, because if his grades fall below a B average, he loses a very large scholarship. I believe he would have the sense to give us some advanced warning before the bill arrived.</p>

<p>I like epiphany's description of her notice as a courtesy on the part of the university. I agree that it is courteous to keep parents in the loop.</p>

<p>I also believe it is smart of colleges and universities to keep parents feeling like they are part of the picture, since that approach is more likely to yield donations to annual funds, parent and grandparent fund drives, scholarship fund drives, and on and on.</p>

83

<p>"It seems to me that if parents do not want to know, or think it is none of their business, or are afraid to know, they can just throw away the envelope."</p>

<p>I think the default should be that they are adults. You seem to forget that the median age of an undergraduate student in the U.S. this year is 24.5 years of age. At my d's school, 10% of the student body are older women between the ages of 26 and 70. Should they write a special law if yours, still an adult, happens to be younger?</p>

<p>And, no, I am not particularly interested in their grades (though if they are getting all "A's", I would perceive that to be a problem). I am VERY interested in what they are learning.</p>

84

<p>The OP started this thread by asking if parents had the right to see their college student's grades.</p>

<p>The answer the discussion has arrived at is that it depends on the college. Most require a waiver signed by the student, while a few take the position that FERPA does legally allow the grades to be provided, so long as the child is claimed as a dependent on the parents' tax return. There are some proposed new rules for FERPA which, if and when approved, will result in colleges being expected to share grades with parents. This could then become the norm rather than the exception.</p>

<p>The thread has morphed into a discussion of whether parents should look at junior's grades, and how closely they should be monitored. </p>

<p>This is a matter of personal choice, and depends on your particular circumstances. If you trust your child and he/she has never let you down, that is wonderful. I'm of the "trust, but verify" school. I would like to see end of term grades ("report card") only, and believe that for my S, watching every assignment, test, etc. would be unnecessary micromanagement and an invasion of S's privacy.</p>

<p>On the other hand, I will acknowledge that for some of the parents here on CC this could be necessary to catch problem(s) early, before it's too late to help S or D do something about it.</p>

85

<p>"I also believe it is smart of colleges and universities to keep parents feeling like they are part of the picture, since that approach is more likely to yield donations to annual funds, parent and grandparent fund drives, scholarship fund drives, and on and on."</p>

<p>I agree. But the telling part is that they're pretty clear that Mom won't be a donor any time soon, due to finances. :) Nevertheless, there's a positive PR effect in extending the level of graciousness that they have consistently displayed to me. Who doesn't need good publicity? I have nothing negative to say about her college, not a single negative experience. They dot every I, cross every T. That favorable reputation may persuade others who do have money to enroll & eventually contribute, and/or future alums like my D to do the same when in a position to.</p>

<p>And remember that being sent unsolicited grades is not mutually exclusive with being approached by a S or D asking for help, advice, or volunteering info on their own. In our house, it's both/and, not either/or. D regularly asks for my advice, which sometimes surprises me & flatters me.</p>

86

<p>Just as every child is different, I suppose each school is different to some extent. My children have always received official mail at home, rather than at their school address. When grades were snail-mailed to S, they came here and all the bills come here as well, addressed to the kids. The school is trying to eliminate postage by encouraging online account access, but D knows her dad is not as attentive to e-mails/internet as to paper, so she hasn't gone paperless on this. Although the bill is always addressed to her, I always open it since 90% of the time she isn't here. Vanderbilt outsources their billing and bills are generated even when there is a zero balance and all that is reflected is a payment. I see no need to waste a stamp and my efforts to forward the bill to her dad if that's the case. The packet that comes for matriculated students contains so many forms that I suppose there may have been an option to have bills go to the VU Station B # and other mail as well, but most kids don't check their snail mail on a daily basis (and some not weekly probably) unless they're expecting something</p>

<p>In addition, Vanderbilt mails a letter of congratulations to students and a copy to the parents as well when the student makes the dean's list. This discussion makes me wonder if a student didn't sign a release if that would be a violation of privacy as well. .</p>

<p>Midmo is right on about how Vanderbilt works to build a strong relationship with parents, grandparents, and anybody else connected to the student who might be a potential donor! I'm sure many other private schools do the same. I love receiving the newsletters and the alumni magazine.</p>

87

<p>
[quote]
The OP started this thread by asking if parents had the right to see their college student's grades.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The legal answer clearly is NO. Unless they can prove to the college that they are their dependent.
Paying the bill does not give a parent (or anyone else to see grades). If the grandparent paid the bill they would not have the right to see grades.</p>

<p>If some schools mail the grades to the parents they most assuredly the "child" signed a waiver. When my oldest was in college the school mailed mid-term progress reports - my child needed to sign the waiver at orientation for this to happen.</p>

<p>3 kids, 3 colleges, 3 FERPA speeches - they were all pretty much the same. They required a waiver from the child.</p>

<p>It is my humble opinion, that parents should not be going behind their child's back to get grade reports. </p>

<p>mini - you and I are on the same page here.</p>

88

<p>There is all this talk about "accountability" at what point does that shift from mommy and daddy, over to the school and the students themselves?</p>

<p>There IS accountability for poor grades, outside of parents, and it is the school!!! If they fail a class, then they have real life consequences, a much more valuable lesson then mom being mad at them</p>

<p>Let us say your chld did get a D, what would you do then? Exactly what would your response be? Ground them? Ask to check their homework? Chew them out?</p>

<p>And saying, oh I would tell them to go use the resources at the school, believe me, your kid already knows all about them, and has made the concious choice to not use them- wether it be office hours, tutoring, etc.</p>

<p>And if they have really tried all those resources and still are doing poorly, your input won't do much anyway, they are dealing with it themselves and that is accountabilty- to themselves, which is what we are striving for anyway</p>

<p>My D tells me her grades, I never ask, she just tells me...she called me saying she was upset that she got a bminus in one class, but then she found out that a bminus with this teacher was a great grade....</p>

<p>I can't hold her hand or kick her in the behind to get her work done in college and if she gets a D I can ground her or conjole her either</p>

<p>Again, what do you do if your kid was getting a D in college that you think would help the situation- because the reality is that they are flaking off and the D was no suprise and that D was a wake up call or not, but they didn't do much to fix it themselves, and you telling them, get to work, well, they already know that</p>

<p>or they did use all the resoureces, tried really hard, and still got the D, then they already are working to fix it</p>

<p>what imput would make a difference or make them accountable to mommy and daddy, that is more powerful than the real life consequences coming from the school?</p>

89

<p>"It is my humble opinion, that parents should not be going behind their child's back to get grade reports."</p>

<p>Lots of us aren't. That's the point that you still don't seem to get. Not evil, sneaky, distrusting, invasive parents, but parents receiving unsolicited mail addressed to themselves.</p>

<p>Additionally, like 2VU, I would open mail addressed to her from the financial aid office <em>only</em>, and only because (and if) I am participating in those financial arrangements, and need to reply and inform her of my reply. </p>

<p>Some of this discussion is really silly and oneupsmanship by some people, because in our house, again, we see this all as a team effort -- not the academic performance, which has always been & continues to be strictly her own work product -- but the logistics & administrative aspects of the educational experience. Whether the U is 'violating' (gasp!) FERPA technical rules or not (probably not in our case, since she's listed as my financial dependent), we communicate with each other freely as well, as people who, well, love each other, do. Imagine that.</p>

<p>I've never violated her privacy. Don't ask her about her BF, or even her grades in progress, yadayada. In fact, that's one reason I made a big point of becoming informed about how full her medical coverage on campus would be, so that she would not have to consult with me, turn to me, if she did not wish to.</p>

<p>However, as I say, she nevertheless turns to me often for information and advice.</p>

90

<p>but once you have the information about a bad grade, what do you with it?</p>

<p>"honey, you can't go out until you bring this grade up...." telling that to a college kid is pointless</p>

<p>if you want to teach accountability, then stay AWAY from tracking the grades....then they have to really deal with it and be accountabile to the forces that have the power</p>

91

<p>Post 90 -- speaking of accountability --
Again, what's the point of making <em>me</em> accountable for something passively received? I don't "do" anything with the information. Except, in my case, I beam.</p>

<p>I don't "track" grades. The U tracks grades, & sends me their tracking.</p>

<p>If it were a bad grade? Given the long time distance between when D receives the grade (online) & my receiving it snail mail, she probably would have warned me about the bad grade in the intervening time, & lamented it long before such snail mail receipt. Since she has such high grades to begin with, I doubt that one "bad" grade would jeopardize (financially) her overall gpa. She's not a high-risk person, so would not put herself in such a position.</p>

<p>As to D#2, I'll cross that bridge when/if I come to it.</p>

92

<p>This debate could go on forever....</p>

<p>I don't think we're talking about parents needing to know about an occasional bad grade. Going to college is the first time most students are truly on their own, and I do think sometimes young adults can get in over their heads, not know how to deal with issues on their own (drugs, distractions, relationships, etc.), might tell their parents everything is going OK when it's not. (Not coincidentally, these students are also the ones not likely to voluntarily show their grade reports to parents). I know this sounds extreme, but some parents might not find out until S or D falls into depression, hurts themselves, or drops out. The grades, made available to parents twice a year, could serve as a warning sign that something more serious is going on. </p>

<p>Is there potential for abuse? Absolutely, but that's where parents have to step back and try not to micromanage their S/D from a distance. Grade reports once or twice a year? I'm OK with that. Status of every homework, quiz and test in real time? No, that would be too much, in most cases.</p>

<p>What can you do about a pattern of bad grades? Plenty--get to the root of the problem and help your child solve it, or, if all else fails, withhold some or all of the money that you're paying. Parents footing the bill do have enormous leverage to alter the behavior of students away at college, but only if they are first aware of what is going on.</p>

93

<p>Most students are NOT children - the median is 24.5 years old - half of them older than that.</p>

94

<p>"Most students are not children". </p>

<p>I disagree. My child will always be my child. If I refer to him as such, it's not intended in a demeaning way--simply a statement of fact. You should cut me a little slack on this use of the word--it's perfectly acceptable.</p>

<p>Here's one definition of "child" from dictionary.com: </p>

<p>"child: a son or daughter: All my children are married."</p>

95

<p>
[quote]
[T]he rights under FERPA transfer from the parents to the student, once the student turns 18 years old or enters a postsecondary institution at any age. However, although the rights under FERPA have now transferred to the student, **a school may disclose information from an "eligible student's" education records to the parents of the student, without the student's consent, if the student is a dependent for tax purposes. Neither the age of the student nor the parent's status as a custodial parent is relevant. If a student is claimed as a dependent by either parent for tax purposes, then either parent may have access under this provision.<a href="34%20CFR%20%C2%A7%2099.31(a)(8).">/b</a>

[/quote]

Source: [FPCO</a> Frequently Asked Questions<a href="emphasis%20added">/url</a></p>

<p>
[quote]
§ 99.31 Under what conditions is prior consent not required to disclose information?</p>

<p>(a) An educational agency or institution may disclose personally identifiable information from an education record of a student without the consent required by §99.30 if the disclosure meets one or more of the following conditions:</p>

<p>(1) The disclosure is to other school officials, including teachers, within the agency or institution whom the agency or institution has determined to have legitimate educational interests.</p>

<p>(2) The disclosure is, subject to the requirements of §99.34, to officials of another school, school system, or institution of postsecondary education where the student seeks or intends to enroll.</p>

<p>....</p>

<p>(4)(i) The disclosure is in connection with financial aid for which the student has applied or which the student has received, .... </p>

<p>....</p>

<p>(8) The disclosure is to parents, as defined in §99.3, of a dependent student, as defined in section 152 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986.

[/quote]

Source: [url=<a href="http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr;sid=92bd433df8fef49a890e18dbd019a97a;rgn=div8;view=text;node=34%3A1.1.1.1.33.4.138.2;idno=34;cc=ecfr%5DElectronic"&gt;http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr;sid=92bd433df8fef49a890e18dbd019a97a;rgn=div8;view=text;node=34%3A1.1.1.1.33.4.138.2;idno=34;cc=ecfr]Electronic&lt;/a> Code of Federal Regulations:](<a href="http://www.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/faq.html%5DFPCO"&gt;http://www.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/faq.html)&lt;/p>

96

<p>mini, your point about many college students being well into independent adulthood is well-taken. I'm trying to remember how I dealt with this back in the last century. I was married well before finishing my first undergraduate degree, not to mention the second one that came several years later. Certainly my parents were not getting notice of my grades past that point. I guess I just notified the school that I was no longer a dependent. It couldn't have been a big deal, because I have a good memory and I don't remember a thing about it.</p>

<p>I think at most schools, it would be logical to assume that most students--at least most freshmen--are still dependents for tax purposes. Hence, default procedure could be sending notice of grades, suspensions, etc. For the non-traditional student, it is not a big thing to fill out a form stating that the folks don't need to get the grade report.</p>

<p>Other schools, in particular community colleges, would likely find it more practical to have default in the other direction.</p>

<p>Some of you may not understand the situation at large public universities, especially those that are not spoken of often on these boards. Quite a number of students arrive emotionally unprepared, often academically unprepared, and quickly fall into habits that result in digging some very deep academic holes. Such students used to be turned around mid-year, even mid-semester, when parental notification was standard--not because they were threatened with being grounded, etc., but because parents had the opportunity to make it very clear that college was over if the trend continued. Also, I knew more than a few students who straightened out quickly when they realized how embarrassed they were going to be when the grade reports or the warnings went home. The pre-FERPA arrangement saved a lot of heart-ache and disappointment for entire families; it is really a very trying situation when first-generation families proudly tell grannies et al that kiddo is going to college, and then make the shocking discovery in June that kiddo has destroyed all chances of going to med or law school or engineering school or perhaps has flunked out altogether.</p>

<p>To me, the down-side is insignificant.</p>

97

<p>I like the way yayverily put it in post 92 (in addition to enjoying the screen name).</p>

<p>If people think "doing" something about a grade = intervening about it, that's helicoptering. If people think "doing" something about it = "punishing," that could be considered infantilizing. I don't think that those of us who appreciate RECEIVING unsolicited grades are talking about such responses. I think we're talking the same kind of caring awareness (and then some) as we would have about a beloved friend in whom we saw warning signs. And even awareness is not necessarily a call to action. It's just information. If you have some kind of scruples about it, don't open the envelope (if you believe you know the contents of all envelopes addressed to you, from your S's or D's U, or perhaps you have X-ray vision). If you open such an envelope & discover to your horror a breach in FERPA laws, you will not be in violation of the law, the U will. They sent it. You can always report them if you further then choose to sabotage your S's or D's college career out of greater concern for federal mandates than the student's peace at the college. </p>

<p>Especially when it comes to the topic of depression, it is important for others to become aware of the sufferer's manifestations, as (1) it is not always obvious to oneself, and (2) there are social pressures in college to disregard it. (Refer to Minna Sandmeier & many others like her.)</p>

98

<p>


Again, we are not talking about a bad grade - we are talking about issues that could either indicate a serious problem going on with the student (depression, drug or alcohol use, etc), or which might stand in the way of graduation or jeopardize needed financial aid. And what the parent can do is either advise or guide the student, if the student is receptive to that, or else discuss & impose consequences, with one consequence being withdrawal of economic support. In many cases, the parent taking or threatening action might be the wake up call the student needs.</p>

99

<p>Thanks for sharing your story, calmom. I suspect there are many more like yours. Hope all turns/turned out well in the end for your son.</p>

<p>I also suspect this sort of thing--students keeping parents in the dark--is more prevalent for sons than daughters. It's a male thing--not admitting that you might be in trouble and asking for help when you should--the very same gene that keeps us from stopping and asking strangers for directions when we're lost.</p>

100

<p>""Most students are not children".</p>

<p>I disagree. My child will always be my child. If I refer to him as such, it's not intended in a demeaning way--simply a statement of fact. You should cut me a little slack on this use of the word--it's perfectly acceptable."</p>

<p>So you think the university should be sending you grade reports about your 35-year-old child....hmmm.</p>

<p>Well, to each her own....</p>

<p>"I think at most schools, it would be logical to assume that most students--at least most freshmen--are still dependents for tax purposes."</p>

<p>Most students - including most freshman nationwide - are NOT dependents for tax purposes, including the vast majority of those discharged from military service. These are no longer "non-traditional" students. Statistically, the 18-year-olds are the exceptions.</p>

<p>But I do think it is true that many parents don't have as trusting a relationship with their "children" as they would like. I think that is sad (even if the "child" IS 35), but I hardly think it is role of the university to assist them in making up for that deficiency.</p>