<p>Late here. My D has just enrolled in IB. She is the type of student that will do well in it. She loves to read and explore and adores writing and research. My S is in the process of making the decision to go AP or IB. Honestly for him- the choice will be AP. He is much more into math and science and will struggle with the language aspects. </p>
<p>Look at the courses that are offered and talk to seniors that have gone through this.</p>
<p>“IB requires extremely careful compliance with very rigidly defined rules.” - Does it ever! Even the teachers joked about the need for labs and such to be, “THE IB WAY”. </p>
<p>Our school had to keep the student work and send requested samples to IB to ensure compliance to the rules. I assume same elsewhere too.</p>
<p>CC has had its share of similar threads, or the closely related AP versus IB threads. The answers are eminently predictable, and akin to ask the survivors of Flight 815 which was the best restaurant on the Lost island! Most people who have bought the IB mystique will defend their choices, and will endorse the program with unabated zeal. It does seem that it pleases plenty of students and their families, especially the ones that are interested in the “school-within-a- school benefits.” Is the program a decent choice? Probably. Is it the best program available and is it a great choice for our education in general? That is an entirely different question. </p>
<p>Some things to consider. Take any city in the US and identify the best 3-4 schools, including private schools. Now check how many offer the IB program. The answer will usually be that the program is offered at the best PUBLIC school, and rarely at the private school. That should give anyone a strong hint, when considering the differences between private and public schools. The IB is merely the latest fad in the public school system. Want an example? Look at Texas, where the IB is extremely popular. Check the city of Dallas and look at what schools offer the IB program? Mostly second or third rank schools and none of the most reputable schools! Enough said!</p>
<p>The IB organization has been particularly effective to convince public school officials that the program would create a small bastion of excellence WITHIN the school. The further incentive that it will help isolate some students and provide a better environment to a few teachers is usually extremely attractive in an environment that rewards seniority and tenure.</p>
<p>IB program great, but a little restricting. APs are as good as you want to make them. Either way is fine. Colleges just want to see that you took the most demanding courses offered at your school.</p>
<p>Where IB is strict about format and procedures is in the assessments that will be used to determine the scores, not necessarily in terms of how one teaches the content or in giving creative assignments. At S’s school, they insisted on proper format, etc. to get the kids in the habit of following the rubric, and they did it starting in 9th grade.</p>
<p>A surprising number of points on the Extended Essay rubric have to do with formatting, footnotes, etc. The coordinator told the kids and us that the most important thing on the EE was to follow the rubric. S went back and checked his to a T, and it was a good thing, because he had left out several things that would have cost him points.</p>
<p>Am 99% sure that he got a lower grade in Econ than any of us expected because he missed something in a rubric. Ditto lost points for Bio lab notebooks.</p>
<p>“Check the city of Dallas and look at what schools offer the IB program? Mostly second or third rank schools and none of the most reputable schools! Enough said!”</p>
<p>I’m incline to disagree with you here. I think the problem is more one of comfortability. Private schools with a high degree of success aren’t really going to be having meetings about boosting their numbers, etc. But a public school, where there is always room for improvement, will constantly be looking for new opportunities and ways to increase the success of their student population. Also note that “becoming IB” is no fast process, here at my school when we got the program a few years ago there was like 5 different evaluations and the school had to be especially cleaned and the doors all repainted, etc. It was a big to do, and a private school with good numbers already may not care for the trouble. Also, in my area, the top private school is currently in the process of getting IB. </p>
<p>Second point of note is that there is some patriotic American stigma against IB that I think seems to be overlooked. People tend to get all defensive when they here that there is some foreign program “challenging” AP, and “Iy-bee ain’t the ah-muricain way”.</p>
<p>Xiggi, I did a search for the top shools in my state and another for IB offerings. While it is true that the private schools do not offer IB, the top public high schools offered IB in 6out of the top 10 rated schools.</p>
<p>While my DD’s high school is not very highly rated within the state it is surely the best in the school district. We will always be limited by the schools physically available to us. For us we went to the best school we could find within a certain range. It offered the IB program as well as AP. Our daughter liked the curriculum and it worked for her. In the end isn’t that what is most important?</p>
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<p>That is not different from the points I made. There are reasons why public schools jumped on the IB and schools that offered a superior education yawned.</p>
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<p>The surest way to disagree with what I posted is to show how wrong I am. In the case of Dallas, I am afraid you would have a hard time to find the IB program at one of the competitive or mainstream schools. </p>
<p>As far as the “un-american” stigma, while this is has some traction in the most conservative corners, it has not presented much of an issue for the IBO to find a fertile ground in the United States. The opponents of the IB program should have been better off to challenge the program on a different basis than its "religion.’ It would have been much more effective to expose the fact that the IB in its continent of creation is mostly a remedial program of poor reputation outside the non-official education system.</p>
<p>The extensive vetting process is just part of the marketing (the most charitable word I can find) of the IBO. The reality is that IB program is introduced and implemented in schools that are at the bottom in performance and efficiency. Witnessing how the IB “makes it” in a failing school such as El Dorado High School in El Paso, Texas tells one all that is needed about the integrity of that program.</p>
<p>I don’t know if I agree with you on your point that private schools are superior. The top public schools in this state are pretty awesome.</p>
<p>Here in India only private schools offer the IB program</p>
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<p>I don’t know where you get that idea. Please specify in which countries you believe this to be true. IB is growing in recognition and reputation all over Europe. British universities, I’ve heard, increasingly favor good IB scores over what are supposed to be comparable A levels. In the country I live in, which started recognizing an IB diploma late in the game, only a few years ago, the program is spreading to new schools quickly. The degree has served the kids that remain here post-grad from my international school extremely well in universities here.</p>
<p>The cross-border recognition and high respect is one of the things I love about it. It allows my Ds who grew up in Europe, to have more options for graduate schools (yes, I think a high score in IB can still have influence in certain international graduate programs), not to mention the connection it creates among fellow IBers from all over the world.</p>
<p>Yes, the rubrics are strict. And they produce kids who are well-prepared for college-level work.</p>
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<p>Regrettably, they may also produce kids who have lost their interest in subjects that initially attracted them. There’s nothing like the formulaic, excruciatingly picky IB English writing assignments to kill a love for literature, for example.</p>
<p>This happens with the Extended Essay, too. Students are told that they can write about “anything,” and many pick a favorite topic, only to find that it doesn’t exactly fit the rubric of any of the IB subjects. So the topic has to be modified to match one of the rubrics. And then after that, the student discovers that the essay has to be prepared in a very specific way, which may not match the aspects of the topic that the student had hoped to explore. So what the student (and parents) had hoped would be an in-depth exploration of a subject of personal interest turns into just another pain-in-the-neck assignment – only longer.</p>
<p>One of my two kids did IB. She would make the same choice if she had it to do over again, and I would support that choice. But IB does have its downsides.</p>
<p>“There’s nothing like the formulaic, excruciatingly picky IB English writing assignments to kill a love for literature, for example.”</p>
<p>I know friends who took APeng and would say the exact same thing. For some people, in depth analysis like what goes on in upper level literature classes isn’t fun, and no curriculum will help that.</p>
<p>Our top rated public high school introduced IB to challenge the top students. It works for some students, doesn’t fit others. Just like the football program, the AP program, the top rated Auto mechanics (amazing how much $$ is offered to some of the grads of that program), the new green engineering program. For our D, AP was a picky, boring mess. IB is a challenging, open learning enviroment.<br>
It’s all about fit…and how YOUR school adminsiters these programs…right down to who’s teaching the class.</p>
<p>“The extensive vetting process is just part of the marketing (the most charitable word I can find) of the IBO. The reality is that IB program is introduced and implemented in schools that are at the bottom in performance and efficiency. Witnessing how the IB “makes it” in a failing school such as El Dorado High School in El Paso, Texas tells one all that is needed about the integrity of that program. #48
Last edited by xiggi; Today at 02:23 AM.”</p>
<p>This is a new idea related to IB, which I doubt, since the IB program is so expensive to administer. </p>
<p>I thought the many failing schools were related to No Child Left Behind Policies. IB was well established in many schools before NCLB came to be.</p>
<p>Another unmentioned plus to IB is the lack of discipline problems in the classrooms, since the students are usually motivated, which makes the environment in IB classes much more conducive to learning.</p>
<p>The other area of IB that might be considered problematic, that I haven’t seen previously mentioned, is the foreign language component. IB emphasizes spoken language more than AP or regular language class, and less rote memorization. This affects AP test scores and compatibility with college courses.</p>
<p>Someone mentioned the extra work load caused by CAS and EE. Every child I know who has been in IB previously had high levels of EC which fit into the CAS requirements, which are adaptable to almost any EC.</p>
<p>This is what can be expected when our education system abdicates its responsibility (out of laziness and greed) to an overhyped organization. </p>
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<p>[IB</a> lifted exam marking guides from Wikipedia - News - TES](<a href=“http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6060245]IB”>http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6060245)</p>
<p>^ Yes, this is a stain and mini-scandal for the IBO and I’m sure some heads will roll, but any organization of this size is going to have some incompetents that make stupid and costly mistakes. This kind of embarrassment usually leads to better oversight and corrections. So far it seems it involves some questions on one exam.</p>
<p>The article also says:</p>
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<p>IB is a great program if administered correctly, and if it fits your learning style. In my children’s school all student will do a mix of AP and IB classes. AP Lit is offered to sophmores preparing the Jr and Sr’s for IB Lang. They get exposure to both. You need to investigate if the program plays to your strengths.</p>
<p>“A surprising number of points on the Extended Essay rubric have to do with formatting, footnotes, etc.” - Very true.</p>
<p>Not sure how this happened (possibly due to the first time EE advisor, but probably DS’s careleness)… DS wrote his summer Draft EE w/o awareness of the Rubric. That’s why he was scrambling so early senior year, when also busy with classes, EC, college-app procrastination 
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<p>DS did 4 years of pre-IB and IB classes, mostly using assignment rubrics. He did say it took a while to adjust to college classes that did not have them. He had to develop more skills for “reading the teacher”, especially in humanities classes.</p>