<p>I am posting in the parents - not college admission forum because I am looking for parental, more than college search/admission advice. I am so frustrated with my rising seniors increasing ambivalence towards school and lack of interest in the college search and admissions. It makes me sick to think that she has squandered opportunity that neither my husband nor I had - and we worked very hard to give her.
Her stats are: 2020 SAT; 3.6 GPA; 2 APs as a junior (scores 4 and 5); top 20% of her class of 350; dedicated to 2 ECs for 4 years
all sounds good so far right?
Except her gpa has steadily declined from a 3.9 freshman year and she did not take the most rigorous schedule for her senior year (she chose not to take the recommended 4 ap classes (she will take 2) and not continue with her foreign language. She is too lazy for community service.
None of the summer work assigned to her has been completed a week before school and I dread the coming year when senioritis kicks in. Her Junior year was a nightmare, she insisted on staying up until 1 a.m. chatting with friends on the internet and stopped turning in homework or studying for classes she was not interested in.
We had hoped that she could attend one of the smaller LACs she visited, but her stats do not qualify her for the merit aid we need. Shes received letters inviting her to apply to honors colleges at larger,less expensive schools, but I assume that is based on her sat score only, because when I read the details, her class rank is not high enough to qualify (top 10%).
I am confused, resentful and very disappointed. I have no idea where she can apply and we can afford, besides the bigstate u which is perfectly fine, but clearly an opportunity was lost here. Please feel free to commensurate, give advice or tell me to shut up. Thanks for any help.</p>
<p>My son was much like your daughter. He didn’t do as well as he could have in high school.</p>
<p>He went to Big State U. This turned out to be a good choice. There is plenty of opportunity at Big State U for those who seek it out. </p>
<p>About halfway through college, he decided to seek it out. He got involved in research and got paid for it. He became an undergraduate TA. He did an honors thesis. He went on to get a master’s degree from another university, which he paid for himself through a teaching/research assistantship.</p>
<p>He now has a good job and makes more money than I do.</p>
<p>My H and I were hardworking, high achieving students who, to our dismay, managed to raise two kids who underperformed in high school because of simple laziness. In the end, we had to accept that they were in charge of their own lives and that they didn’t exist to fulfill anyone else’s expectations but their own. They have grown and matured and are making better decisions now than they did back then. Meanwhile, we have come to realize that so long as they are reasonably happy and self-supporting and, most important, good people, we’re satisfied. You’ll get there, too.</p>
<p>But I have to comment on this:
This is entirely within your control. In our house during school nights, electronics were not used after 10 pm, and the claim that someone had to go online to do research was met by advice to get up an hour early to do it. If that means confiscating your D’s phone, laptop, etc., overnight, so be it. I figured we had to make sure they had the tools to succeed, whether they chose to use them or not, and those tools included a decent night’s sleep.</p>
<p>Don’t despair. Teens aren’t always on the same timeline. I had a late bloomer S as well as an overachiever D and both are doing well in their chosen colleges. My overachiever received an honors full ride and in my s’s case, we were just thrilled he survived high school and got Into a good college.</p>
<p>When some parents advised me to step back during my son’s junior year when he was making poor decisions, I chose to do the opposite. Socially, he was a little behind his peers and I didn’t have the option to hold him back I’m high school because he was immature! :). So I told him his dad and I were going to be very hands on during his junior year. He really needed the guidance. It wasn’t always me. I enlisted the help of some of his teachers, too. He didn’t earn any merit money for college but he was accepted to a top state school that was affordable for us. He is thriving and happy.</p>
<p>This approach won’t work for everyone but it worked for us. You know your daughter best.</p>
<p>When I ran into problems where my daughter was staying up late on the Internet with her friends, I would unplug the wireless access point. </p>
<p>You can explain to your daughter that she would have better options if she applied herself more, but she needs to be self-motivated, you can’t be the one to motivate her. But you can set rules, take away privileges, etc. I don’t think you should go overboard about these types of things though, since in a year she will be away at college with greater freedom. And while her grades, and rank, and class rigor could be better, they are still quite good, so you should appreciate that.</p>
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<p>It sounds to me that this is what she probably wants anyway, and not a bad choice for most kids who attend.</p>
<p>Sometimes we parents need to accept that what we want for our kids isn’t always what they want for themselves. It was a lesson it took us years to figure out with our Dd, and had we accepted it sooner, life would have been easier for all concerned.
I’ve noticed that “balance” is really important for the younger generations. We may think of it as not working to their potential; they see it as a balanced life. There may be some lessons here.</p>
<p>I don’t know if I have any advice but I confess that what you wrote is my main worry about my children. But I have to point out that 3.6 and 2020 are good grades and SAT scores. Your daughter really is not in a bad place and state universities may actually be good for her.</p>
<p>Looking back, I could have been your daughter 30-35 years ago. Like your daughter, I was a decent student in high school; I probably could have done more but I didn’t push myself at all. Luckily back then colleges were less competitive. I made it into my father’s university (siblings’ performance also helped) where I thoroughly underachieved. I didn’t like the place; I felt stupid and like a fake (everyone thought I was a very bright and good student). My parents despaired at my grades. At one point in my junior year, my mother looked at my grades, turned to me and asked, “are you out nights having fun at college?”. I was horrified. I said “No, I’m not. I’m struggling.” She replied, “too bad, with these grades, you should” Ouch. Eventually I got my act together. but it took a gap year after undergrad. After that, I went to graduate school (no financial help from parents) and there, I focused and blossomed. </p>
<p>I hope I didn’t discourage you further by suggesting that this can last another 10 years. But I wanted to show this isn’t necessarily opportunity lost, just delayed.</p>
<p>Maybe if you take her on some college tours of the “big state U’s” that you can afford, she’ll either:</p>
<p>1) decide those are “good enough” (and they probably are).</p>
<p>2) decide that she hates them and will then be motivated to “do better” so she can get the merit for one of those LACs.</p>
<p>Be sure that she understands that you’re not being mean by expecting merit so as to be able to attend those LACs. Make sure she understands that you’re not just “blowing smoke” in order to get her to buckle down. She needs to know that there’s no way you can afford those schools without the merit money.</p>
<p>Give her a annual dollar amount that you will spend. Tell her that to go to a more costly school will depend on her…her stats and merit.</p>
<p>That said, there probably are some other LACs or small schools that will give her merit for her stats. What is her Math + CR?</p>
<p>It makes me sick to think that she has squandered opportunity that neither my husband nor I had</p>
<p>Lastly, it may be YOUR dream to go to a cute little LAC, but it may not be hers. That doesn’t mean that she’s squandered anything. She just has a different dream.</p>
<p>There are a number of kids who have no desire for a small LAC. They prefer the rah rah atmosphere at a big state school. Maybe your D is one of those kids.</p>
<p>I get stressed out from reading your post, so I’m sure she’s tuned you out by now just to preserve her own sanity. </p>
<p>I would take a step back, let her know that you love her unconditionally, you are there if she needs your help finding and applying to colleges, let her know how much you can afford. After that, it’s on her and you might as well just be upbeat and let her be happy. You can’t do the work for her. If she fails, she fails. You can be there to pick her up. </p>
<p>Basically, she needs to own her life. As long as you keep bugging her, you’re just delaying her ownership.</p>
<p>You could be describing my best friend’s daughter. Talented, beautiful,smart, and by senior year showing a definite downward trend, not taking the most difficult courses and very laissez faire about the whole process. She got a real slap in the face when Big State U turned her down. Her mother works there so tuition would have been free, and Admissions was kind enough to do the favor of privately telling my friend that her daughter was going ot be referred to a satellite campus for freshman year (meaning rejected from the main campus). She ended up not getting into any number of schools that should have been strong matches for her, but the downward trend just killed her, plus her first semester senior grades were not that hot either. Some kids in her class still were accepted to like schools, maybe they just lucked out, but she did not. She ended up at a Catholic school that was not on her first list, and she was not happy.</p>
<p>But she worked hard there, got great grades and has now transferred to a top 25 university, and understands very well that the grades count. That’ s what it took. It’s a shame, as, yes, with her test scores, she would have been a good candidate for some merit money and she could have started out at a school she preferred, but that’s what it took, and worse things have happened to young people. Her sister who did not have the test scores and always had to work for grades did not get into her reach schools–waitlisted at them all, but she is now at a top graduate program with the grades she got in college. Another friend;s DD who had to go to a local state school because Dad wouldn’t pay and she could not qualify for fin aid with his financials in the picture, went to a top law school after graduating Summa Cum Laude and getting a Phi Beta Kappa key, and is earning six figures. So temporary lapses can be made up. </p>
<p>As they get older, as a parent, it becomes clear that their motivation and efforts are key and you have less influence and effect on them. You have to let them come their own realizations as to what is important and what they want. It may well be that State U is where she wants to go, or she may be happier in a school where the majority of kids are not heavily into academics. It just might not be what she wants now or ever. She has to make that determination as it is an everyday way of life for HER, not you. It doesn’t mean she’s eliminated that as a future choice.</p>
<p>^Good tale above, but your D has a 3.6 and a 2020. That should be good enough to get her into most flagships, even competitive ones.</p>
<p>I agree with RockerDad - I felt stressed just reading your post so I wonder if your daughter feels a little stressed hearing Mom and Dad on her tail about not “living up to her potential” when she’s doing well. Most teenagers would rather talk on the phone with friends until 1 am than clean up a park or help sick people turn over at the hospital.</p>
<p>Kids emulate us much more than we would like.
Just watch a group of five year old long enough & you can pick out their parents by their shared mannerisms.
When I hear complaints that " my child is too lazy for community service", I wonder what importance the family puts on giving back. What projects they have been involved in and what volunteer groups the adults give their time to?</p>
<p>Snoopymom1 - I applaud you for reaching out to others to get some perspective. I would add this to the good advice that is already mentioned here.</p>
<p>My experience raising three sons (one a Sr. in college now, one heading off for his Freshman year in college next week, and one still in HS) and coaching hundreds of kids over the last couple of decades from the time they were in Kindergarten until they graduated from HS has taught me a couple of things about motivation and maturity:</p>
<p>1) For a kid to truly mature, at some point, the motivation for them to achieve/succeed/persevere/reach their potential/etc. has to come from something inside of them, not from anywhere else. This is true of every single kid on the planet. It happens with some kids at 8, some at 13, some at 18, and some at 30. I can’t tell you how many young gifted athletes I have seen who did not develop, did not live up to their potential, flat out quit by HS, because the drive to succeed did not come from inside themselves. They never flipped the switch from the desire coming from Mom and Dad (or hanging out with their peers or somewhere else) to the desire coming from inside. </p>
<p>2) As parents, we certainly can and will try to help our kids down that path to maturity. It’s part of our responsibility and a way we demonstrate we care about them. Although they don’t always receive it that way 
However, even with the “best” parenting, we can only move the needle so far. Ultimately, it is up to them, their time, their way. The lack of control we feel in the situation is frustrating, sometimes hurtful, and can, in fact, damage our relationships with our kids. </p>
<p>I’ve always been hesitant to give advice on CC because kids and situations are always unique. But just based on your post, my friendly advice is this. Think first about what you truly believe is most important to improve in the current situation. Once you figure that out, then focus on trying to connect with your daughter to make that one specific thing better. If you don’t see her demonstrating the maturity you think she needs at this point in her life, try to understand what’s getting in the way of her developing that maturity and motivation to live up to her potential. </p>
<p>One final thought - I’m really not sure the place to start is where your D goes to college. Absolutely it’s important and something you have maybe looking forward to for a long time. But I honestly think the most important thing you can do is try to stay connected with her where she is at. If you can maintain that connection and worry less about the outcome, maybe the whole college thing will bring you closer together.</p>
<p>Good luck to you and your daughter.</p>
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<p>The only reason community service was mentioned to begin with is that people think it’s valuable for sucking up to colleges. I don’t think that kind of community service is much more meritorious than staying up late talking on the phone.</p>
<p>Our family values community service. We not only give our money every year, we give our time. When my oldest graduated from high school, she was awarded the 2000hr award from one of her community service sites. When she began, (in middle school) it was without thought of reward, but to fulfill an interest and it certainly was not done in regards to something that she might do 7 years later.;)</p>
<p>It saddens me that other parents discount the value of giving back for its own sake.
But I am happy that I am not yet that cynical and jaded.</p>
<p>I understand the frustration that she isn’t doing as well as she could but you are taking it too personally. To are putting too much on her if she has to live up to opportunities you didn’t have. Seems there are some communication problems here too.</p>
<p>Volunteer work isn’t necessary as an EC. But she does need to show how she spends her time, whether it is sports, music, art or something academic.</p>
<p>It’s time to apply to colleges, you need to have some talks about her interests and ask her where she sees herself next year. Perhaps she is fine with the state school. Then there is no need to go through the stress of the other applications. But there are plenty of places she could apply with hopes of merit. Maybe make that the focus of your next post.</p>
<p>It isn’t too late to tell her you expect grades to be kept up this year, and homework has to be turned in. Since she can’t seem to self monitor tell you are unhappily forced to, and to unplug that interne/tconficate the phone at night.</p>
<p>I’m not sure I see the problem. This student has a good GPA, good SAT scores, and good ECs. Many kids just aren’t interested in taking the most aggressive course load their senior year. There are choices for a student with these stats…even merit awards at some schools.</p>
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snoopymom, I think your feelings are understandable and quite common. You don’t specifically mention it in your first post, so I wonder if you could tell us what your relationship with your d is like? Is she aware of your feelings, or have you been biting your tongue about them? Do you argue often about her behaviors, or are you in your separate camps without many conflicts initiated by either side?</p>
<p>Senior year is pretty late to change the tenor of an application. Her stats are quite good. I don’t think you’re wrong to wonder about the GPA. A 3.6/top 20 percent can get her into some very good schools, as others have said. But if she started with a 3.9 and had a less rigorous schedule than is possible in her high school, I wonder what her junior year GPA was. Colleges do look closely at the junior year. </p>
<p>For your own sake, if you let go of the idea of what she could have accomplished, her last year at home can be a much happier time. If she starts at the state school and regrets it, she’ll have the option of doing well and transferring elsewhere (though usually without merit aid). But she might be very happy at state U and have a great experience.</p>
<p>In the long run, I think your relationship with your daughter is more important than where she goes to college, or even if she goes to college.</p>
<p>College years and the twenties that follow are often a long haul, and stability isn’t reached for many kids, until nearly 30. I would say try to take a long range view.</p>
<p>It might even help if you told your daughter that she can take a gap year, that she doesn’t have to go to college at all, or can take a few classes as a non-matriculating student and see if she likes it. And the state university sounds fine.</p>
<p>Social and emotional development are important. There is so much growth happening in so many areas for them at this age.</p>
<p>Achieving the right kind of distance and detachment as parents is like a dance. A very delicate one. We’re all doing it!</p>
<p>I have a similar D. Pretty much the same stats although she did take a lot of APs in her senior year. She wasn’t lazy, just a little uninterested in the whole school thing. Until college.
She got into a large, selective flagship that wanted out of state kids. Her SAT scores did the trick, I think. Since she started she has been getting fantastic grades, is highly motivated and truly passionate about her chosen major. She is now applying to grad schools and is incredibly committed to succeeding. I’m very proud of how far she has come.</p>
<p>Just be patient and control the things that you have control over. Like the late night electronics. The rest is really up to her. Try not to let your disappointment show. Let her know that you love her and have faith in her. When she matures she will hit her stride.</p>