<p>I originally posted this on the Haverford board but I thought it would be interesting to post it here too because it involves a dispute (sort of) between me and my dad. I picked Haverford as the example because it is the school that started the dispute but I am thinking of a range of LACs, Haverford being probably the top. And I will add that I have done very "intense" summer school programs for the last two years but my dad does not think that is good enough evidence that I will do the same for a whole college year.</p>
<hr>
<p>Okay, this Q is going to make me sound like a slacker, but here it is anyway. How much time do people at Haverford spend studying? I think Haverford would be a good match for me, but my dad says he thinks it is "too intense" for me. Because really, I do not do a lot of work for school. If I have a test, I usually don't study (and I almost always get an A, just from paying attention in class. That I do.) If I have a paper due, I might start it the day before (and again, the A). A lot of nights, I have no homework at all. I do like learning things and read a lot on my own but I also like my time to be a couch potato or play playstation. So how do I know if I will be able to make it at a place like Haverford?</p>
<p>Wow, my d would have loved your high school. She regularly had 4 to 6 hours a night in high school - loved those US History AP DBQ's.</p>
<p>I can tell you that my d attends an "intense" school. Her homeowork probably averages 4 to 5 hours a night and she is a very quick reader. I am very thankful for the very rigourous high school education she received. She was remarkably well prepared for college, especially her writing skills - thank you DBQ's. The A's in college do not come as easily, at least at her school. The professors curve the grades and, since your competition is all elite students it becomes much more difficult. She has done well, made dean's list, but it is not easy. Many of her college friends have struggled much more than she has but, then again, my d has never been a procrastinator.</p>
<p>HS is NOT college.
If you have not developed good study habits already you ARE going to have problems unless you step it up.
The days of "winging it" are over.
There are many examples of " slacker" kids doing real well in HS only to get crushed by the workload in college.
My D/S has a good friend who graduated 3rd ( almost valedictiorian) in their HS class of several hundred who is transfering to an easier school because she just does not know how to study.
You may have done well against your peers in HS, perhaps there is grade inflation there?
In college EVERYONE will more than likelly be just as smart or smarter than you.
Your "A's" will tuirn to "C's" when you are compared to the other students who are putting in maximum effort.</p>
<p>My advice. Take it one semester at a time. You know you have a problem, get on top of it.
You can always transfer out.</p>
<p>If you are willing to rise to the challenge of an intense college, you'll do fine. However, if you have gotten slacker grades in h.s., you won't have the opportunity to get into an intense college because an intense college won't accept you. If you've slacked, but have gotten excellent grades, you may have the option of an intense college, and may find that the challenge of being around lots of very bright, creative, hardworking students, and having interesting, brilliant professors, inspires you to work hard, too.</p>
<p>Back in my day I remember one of the offerings at our freshman orientation was a session on study skills for college. The person who led it also taught a class for freshmen focusing on study skills, time management, etc. If your school has something like that available, it would be worthwhile as you make the transition.</p>
<p>I attended a top ranked LAC. Two of my friends were National Merit Scholars. Both of them had coasted their way through high school. When they got to college, they tried to do the same. Eventually their poor study habits caught up with them, and they both dropped out.</p>
<p>Just how much of a slacker are you? :) What kinds of courses are you taking in high school? Honors? APs? IBs? Science research programs, such as ASR? What are those "intense" summer programs you mentioned? Were they selective?</p>
<p>What sorts of challenges have you tackled that might give you an idea of where you stand against the top students at other high schools in your state and in the US? </p>
<p>If you know, for example, that you've done really well on one of the national language exams, or a national math competition, or a writing contest, that tells you something about your ability to shine outside the context of your high school. If you're sailing along through the toughest courses your school offers, that also tells you something. </p>
<p>As the other posters have said, really well prepared kids find top colleges a challenge, but a challenge that they already know how to meet. It's a step up, not a sheer rock face. Smart kids who've never had to work hard may not really have the tools to cope - or may find the experience such a rude awakening that they don't want to try. Or they may be thrilled with the task, acquire the tools, and go on to make the most of their college experience. </p>
<p>We can't really give you much perspective on which of those situations you might find yourself in, unless we know a little bit more about what you've already been doing.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Back in my day I remember one of the offerings at our freshman orientation was a session on study skills for college. The person who led it also taught a class for freshmen focusing on study skills, time management, etc. If your school has something like that available, it would be worthwhile as you make the transition.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Swarthmore offers a 3-day seminar to any freshman willing to return to campus three days early at the end of winter break. It is mostly taught by upperclass students at the school and, reportedly, quite worth attending.</p>
<p>To the orginal poster:</p>
<p>If you got accepted to Haverford, you are more than capable of doing the work successfully. You will enjoy college academics a lot more if you set up a routine to keep up with the assignments like it is your job. I know, for example, that a routine of going to the library with friends to study every night after dinner is very beneficial.</p>
<p>There are people who get through college with a slacker routine. But, it's difficult, not much fun, and -- frankly -- a waste of a $40,000 a year opportunity. College is so much more fun if you are "really into" your courses and enjoying doing most of the work.</p>
<p>the question you should ask yourself and you know yourself better than anyone here is, once you find out that your current style will not work (i'm guessing you'll find that out early), are you willing to adjust and step it up?</p>
<p>My daughter was anything but a slacker in high school. She was quite conscientious in getting her work done. But, it came easy and an outside observer would say that she didn't need to work very hard. For example, she could do high school homework and watch TV or instant message on the internet at the same time and routinely did so.</p>
<p>She had no problem adjusting to the workload at a very intense academic college. We've talked about it over the course of her four years at college. She works hard. Puts in a lot of hours. But, only really "stresses" during finals week when all the papers and exams are due. Even then, she just allots the available hours in the week, gives each assignment the allotted time, and that's that.</p>
<p>She did not pull her first college "all-nighter" until last week, the night before her senior thesis was due.</p>
<p>So, yeah, I think you can safely tell your dad that many college students can and do "step up their game" as required at demanding colleges. College is not like high school. The courses can be very stimulating. It's easy to work hard when you are really engaged with the material and the class discussions.</p>
<p>Any school of Haverford's caliber is going to be "intense," so you need to make the decision now on how you want to approach your education. You may need to make major adjustments in your first year, but it's possible to overcome deficiencies in study habits as long as you care about correcting them.</p>
<p>BTW, you won't be the only student who arrives without being fully prepared. Many others will be struggling.</p>
<p>You sound like me. I never had to study in high school. It was just that easy for me. I found that I learned how to study very quickly when I got to college as Chemistry and my honor's GE started to kick my butt. Luckily, the university had resources to help as did talking with my friends.</p>
<p>Look, if you are willing to "up your game" so to speak, you can do it.</p>
<p>I got a bs in chemE, so that's a lot of studying. Still, I would suggest you treat school like a full time job. Get there between 0730 and 0800 even if you don't have class that early, and leave between 1630 and 1530, or until class ends. Do this 5 days a week. Time between, before, or after class spend studying. If you are still getting As than you aren't challenging yourself. Find something that will challenge you enough that you'll have to put in a couple of late nights a week a month or so. Don't be a waste of potential, and don't waste your education. All because you like to slack doesn't make you a slacker. Not taking your education or schooling seriously will make you a slacker. If you follow this advice you will find school and life more rewarding, and to top it off you'll still have the weekends and evenings to hang out with friends and play whatever it is you play.</p>
<p>I would worry that a self-proclaimed slacker would be incapable of accurately judging whether s/he (1) had the "chops" for a top school or (2) was ready/willing/able to "up" his/her game. </p>
<p>A student who coasted for years may have not idea of the type of effort required to succeed at a Haverford caliber school. Worse still, s/he will probably lack the study skills necessary for such an endeavor - - and if s/he is slow out of the gate, it may be impossible to catch up at the end.</p>
<p>Some students DO rise to the occasion, as N'starmon mom suggeted. And OP would not be the only unprepared student on campus. But if a student has to drop a course and having to petition to enter the soph year deficient in credits, or gets placed on academic probation (happened to D's friend at HAVERFORD), kowing that other students are in the same boat will be of little solace.</p>
<p>You asked how much the other kids study. The real question, which only you can answer, is how much effort are you willing to put in? College is not high school. If there are other kids that can slack off, but you need to study 4-5 hours/night, would that be an issue? Would you have problems seeking help if you need to?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Some students DO rise to the occasion, as N'starmon mom suggeted. And OP would not be the only unprepared student on campus. But if a student has to drop a course and having to petition to enter the soph year deficient in credits, or gets placed on academic probation (happened to D's friend at HAVERFORD), kowing that other students are in the same boat will be of little solace.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That's why I strongly believe that a "pass/fail" first semester at very challenging colleges is a humane and thoughtful policy.</p>
<p>It gives brand new college students an opportunity to get their sea legs, figure out where they stack up, and adjust their approach to college academics accordingly.</p>
<p>Yes, but with pass/fail courses the passing grade is often C- (as opposed to the usual D-) so a student struggling with a single course might be better off taking it on the chin and passing with a D or D+.</p>
<p>I'll give a different answer: you'll probably do fine. College is not high school. It's a lot more interesting than high school. And the social conventions at Haverford are different than in high school. If you are engaged in what you are studying and other activities, and surrounded by other people like that, you probably won't want your couch potato time as much, or not as much of it. (Also, when it's time to knock off studying, there are more fun things to do, too.)</p>
<p>Only YOU have the answer to this question...be honest with yourself. In your heart of hearts, do you believe that you will WANT to step up the level of intensity it most certainly will take to do even just marginally well?</p>
<p>If in fact you know you don't want to work that hard, your dad's advice may be spot on. I don't know anything about Haverford and even less about you.</p>
<p>But if that college has a high intensity reputation, competitive environment, and tough grading policy, don't go there unless you go in ready to work hard.</p>
<p>There are plenty of other colleges that will not challenge you as much but where you can get a decent education and have a great college experience.</p>
<p>Again, just be honest with yourself and it will help enormously in choosing the right fit.</p>
<p>If truly you want to do well at Haverford, then you will work hard enough to do well there. (You may need a new outlook toward evenings and weekends.)</p>
<p>If you are admitted. </p>
<p>Haverford wouldn't admit you if they thought it would not be possible for you to succeed there, and the admissions officers are good at figuring this out.</p>