Parental pressure horror stories

Parents Forum
41

<p>para,</p>

<p>"Opie,
how many years ago have you finished college? Would YOU consider cutting your children off if their choice of major doesn't satisfy the expence from your point of view?"</p>

<p>Again please read my posts carefully... Honestly, I did not shoot President Kenndy.. It was not me behind the grassy knowl (sp). </p>

<p>I finished college 22 years ago. BA in business.</p>

<p>as far as cutting my kids off... to quote myself..</p>

<p>" have said "If your going to use me for a bank, you'll have to listen to the speech." As far as career choices here's the speech " find something you'll love doing, make enough to feed yourselves and choose a career that can't be outsourced in your middleages." I would venture to guess that would give someone a vast number of career choices. no? "</p>

<p>Is this soooo extremely unreasonable for a college major speech????</p>

<p>So they would really have to be out there as far as a major went. Maybe you should through some majors out there and I'll thumbs up/down them.:) </p>

<p>And again I offered the gem of being willing to do it yourself on your own nickle if you DON'T agree with your parents. Don't even give em the opportunity to cut you off. Would that be hard to do? yes.. impossible? NO. It's done everyday.</p>

42

<p>marite,</p>

<p>" I am responding to your suggestions for young people with controlling parents to adopt. What makes you think that the students mentioned by Jessie did not listen to the speech? What happens after they've listened not once but umpteen times? Is that all you require? The parents in question sound like they did not listen to the kids; just cut them off without a penny."</p>

<p>What I gave was a solution if you truly wanted to stick to your guns. Here's another way to do it... follow your parents desires, get your degree, let them pay for it. Then go back to school while you work and get the degree you want. Besides if parents treat their children like that, those kids should figure it out on how to go it alone. Because if it's not a college major choice, it will be the choice of a spouse, house or mouse..:) it will always be there. As long as you give someone control they will exercise it. </p>

<p>"When did you put yourself through college? I worked one summer as a waitress. I believe I earned enough to pay one semester's tuition. If my kid were to work as a waiter today, he probably would earn enough to cover 20% of his tuition bill at most. If he went to our state U, it would cover 1/3. What was a possibility 40 years ago is no longer practical. "</p>

<p>I went over 6 years to get my undergrad in. I worked 45 hours a week either swing or graveyard in grocery. I studied when ever I could, slept around 5-6 hours. Finished with a 3.2 in business. Not fantastic, but not too shabby either. Waitressing would be a tough way to get through school, but there are other jobs. It can be done, even today.</p>

<p>"I tell my kids they're my old age pension (j/k). I do expect to support them financially to the best of my abilities until they are capable of earning their own way, that is through college."</p>

<p>And for your support do you at least expect them to listen to your advice? What if they tell you you're full of S***? over and over again? still gonna pony up? </p>

<p>I do feel for these kids in these situations. However they either must "take it" or "break it", otherwise it will never end. For the umpteenth time this does not mean I support any parent that would do this... It means I would see that as a sign of never getting out from under that parent and that means if they truly want to be themselves they have to break the financial chain around their ankle.</p>

43

<p>Opie,
I believe that you had nothing to do with the grassy knoll. I also have nothing against "The Speech" . Heck, we gave it to our son( and more than once) . That said, I would never consider cutting off the tuition money because S wants to go into humanities( Poli Sci, OMG) and not into engineering or biology( his dad's pet majors) . The thought of parents actually doing such a thing makes me uneasy. The reason i asked when you graduated is, times have changed since then, and pretty dramatically, in my opinion. Yes, one probably can put oneself through college even now, but in my eyes it will be such a failure on the parents' part( I am speaking strictly about the situation when parents can and are willing to pay, but only for a particular school or major) . In my eyes it should by either: I will be paying what i can afford, or I will not pay at all, you are on your own, kid. And spoken well before college apps season comes around. So everybody knows what to expect and the kid can make some steps accordingly ahead of time.</p>

44

<p>para, </p>

<p>thanks for the spelling (knoll):) </p>

<p>Yes it would bother me to see parents doing the ultimatums to their kids as well. These parents if you look, want to exercise total control over their kids. It often extends well into adulthood, especially where significant sums of money are involved. These parents force their will on the kids beyond college into their relationships and social lives. At some point a kid/adult in that situation has to say "enough" and go it alone. My solution is probably the grittiest choice. It's real, and honestly for a kid in that situation, maybe the best, all things considered. </p>

<p>I think the only ultimatums of "you're on your own" I have given involving college are these...</p>

<p>If you get a DUI (drunk driving) your problem, not mine.
If you steal, your problem, not mine.
If you intentionally hurt someone else through senseless violence.. your problem.
If you don't fold the towels just the right way.... (wait, that's my wife's ultimatium towards me.. and I'm on my own .. there are somethings worse than losing tuition money.) :)</p>

45

<p>Opie,
I tried now to make my own list of "you are on your own" scenarios. Couldn't think of any. Situations on your list would be on "you lost my respect, kid" list for me, but( it's probably a mother's thing) S would never be left without help. There are much worse things than loosing the tuition money, but in this kind of situation it's a sign of a major "failure to communicate" . And maybe your solution will have to come into the picture. But how sad.</p>

46

<p>
[quote]
The reason i asked when you graduated is, times have changed since then, and pretty dramatically, in my opinion. Yes, one probably can put oneself through college even now, but in my eyes it will be such a failure on the parents' part( I am speaking strictly about the situation when parents can and are willing to pay, but only for a particular school or major)

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Actually, precisely because times have changed, there are many students who can put themselves through college.</p>

<p>The widespread use of merit aid means that many students are quite capable of putting themselves through college without parents needing to kick in any money, even if their "need-based EFC" is quite high.</p>

<p>I would imagine that just about any MIT student could have gotten a full-tuition merit scholarship to a wide variety of colleges---not MIT, of course, but just about anyone who can get into MIT had the high school stats to get into some college with a full tuition scholarship, possibly even a full-ride scholarship. </p>

<p>But a full tuition merit scholarship should be enough for most students to get through on their own resources if they are willing to work and borrow and cut corners on living expenses (i.e., multiple roommates in inexpensive off-campus apartment or taking an RA job for free room & board, etc.)</p>

<p>The problem, as I see it, is that it's unfair for parents not to spell out ahead of time exactly what they are willing to pay for and what they are NOT willing to pay for.</p>

<p>Once the kid has already started at MIT, it may be extremely difficult to get those generous merit scholarships elsewhere. That's because most of the most generous scholarships appear to be reserved for entering freshmen. Not only that, MIT's tough grade standards may make transferring hard, especially with any kind of merit aid.</p>

<p>So it's terribly unfair for parents to reveal after the fact that they will only pay tuition for a degree in XYZ or any other contingencies they want to place on their kid.</p>

<p>If Opie wants to place whatever restrictions he likes on his willingness to pay for a college education, I think it's only fair for him to state those restrictions up front, preferably before his kid even starts making up college lists--and certainly before the kid enrolls at a particular college.</p>

<p>It should be noted, however, that there are ways for kids to pay their way through MIT if they are determined enough--one way is ROTC, another way is certain NSA (National Security) undergraduate funding programs (which admittedly limit the student to certain majors--typically math or computer science...or other majors possibly not available at MIT like Arabic or Farsi, etc.) Of course, these programs have some stringent strings attached--like years of one's life that one must agree to serve in the armed forces or work for NSA.</p>

<p>It would be nice if there were similar programs that allowed students to pay for their college educations by committing to other kinds of public service--like delivering health care or teaching in underserved poor areas in this country or abroad in the Peace Corps.</p>

<p>Maybe if we weren't spending so much money in Iraq, we'd have money to pay for a public service educational funding program like that one.</p>

47

<p>Opie: If you don't mind me asking, what kind of academic choice on your child's part would make you consider withholding tuition? Or, if you personally wouldn't, in what cases do you think a parent is justified in doing so purely in response to a child's academic and career goals?</p>

48

<p>Was it the towels? Those always seem to get the ladies. Despite the fact they go on a shelf behind doors. There's hell to pay if they're folded wrong. :) </p>

<p>Actually everybody has a list of some sort. A public and a private one. The public one we want everyone to see as we shine. The private ones, well those are the things we just can't deal with and hope we never have to face, because we won't look so good.</p>

49

<p>Opie:</p>

<p>You'd be surprised at how many kids have more than had to listen to the speech. And because the parents have been controlling them all their lives, they probably are least able to fend for themselves now; noses to the grindstone, every minute scheduled so as to best position them for entrance into HYPSM, reminders of how much sacrifices the parents have made to get them where they are.....</p>

<p>It's hard for you and me and parabella to imagine such scenarios; except that I have heard stories like that many times over. Sometimes, the pressure is not even overt. I remember some Asian friends of mine being so proud of their only son--as well they might, since he was an absolute delight. But their pride in him made him drive himself even harder. They did not realize how much pressure they put on him until he came home one day and after a great deal of apologizing, he said: "I hope you won't think I have failed you; I got a B+ in xxx course." That stayed with me as I raised my kids. </p>

<p>Oh, and about controlling choice of spouses: I had the good fortune of marrying after several siblings incurred the wrath of my parents for not marrying "their own kind." The fallout was not pretty, but it taught my parents not to meddle if they wanted to see their grandchildren.</p>

<p>Para: S1 majored in history. S2 is only interested in pure math. I haven't figured out the practical applications of such a degree.</p>

50

<p>wisteria,
I wasn't clear enough. I was talking about cutting off the money AFTER the student have started at a particular school. I also wrote about being honest with your kid about what you are willing to do well before he started the apps process. The thing I cosider fair is either paying for COLLEGE ( not a major, not a certain school) or not paying for college. Period.</p>

51

<p>marite,
I am married to a mathematician( albeit an "applied" one, but of a strictly academic kind) , so I hear you . :-) Still, the life of a scientist seems to be just a little bit easier( and the life-saving grants just a little more available) than a life of a "political" scientist( or, God forbid, an Phylosophy major, jk, jk) . But seeing S so excited about his Fall quarter classes( and he will be studying Russian which he chose himself , no pressure, yes, yes, yes) makes it all much easier to bear. :-)</p>

52

<p>"S1 majored in history"</p>

<p>Not long ago the CEO of one of the largest Oil Company was a history major.</p>

53

<p>This is why I said that in most cases I know, the student only discovers once s/he is in college that the major s/he had decided on as a high school senior is not the one that s/he should be pursuing. Most students are ignorant of the wide variety of possible majors in college; they often select a major in the field they were strong in while in high school, but they may have reached the limits of their abilities in that field, or do not have the passion to pursue it further. So the problems tend to develop after the student is already in college. And as both Wisteria and parabella have pointed out, trying to get aid of any kind as a transfer student is much harder than when one is appying as an incoming freshman.</p>

54

<p>"If Opie wants to place whatever restrictions he likes on his willingness to pay for a college education, I think it's only fair for him to state those restrictions up front, preferably before his kid even starts making up college lists--and certainly before the kid enrolls at a particular college"</p>

<p>OH COME ON PEOPLE, IT'S LIKE YOU'RE NOT EVEN TRYING TO READ!!!:) </p>

<p>To All: BEFORE YOU USE ME AS AN EXAMPLE OF ANYTHING IN YOUR POSTS REREAD MY POINT AND THEN READ IT AGAIN. THERE'S A GENERAL LACK OF COMPREHENSION GOING ON HERE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!! </p>

<p>AGAIN AND CAN WE ALL AGREE TO THIS FOR THE LAST TIME? :) I suggested a means for a student to do what they want without parent involvement. I never, not once listed a major I would or wouldn't pay for for my kids. </p>

<p>I never said I would cut them off at any point for career choices... criminal choices absolutely. </p>

<p>Kill somebody and I'm not going to continue to pay for college. :) Call me unreasonable, but I draw the line at canabalism as well. Especially from my vegitarian child. If she ever eats a human, I will no longer help with college. I know that's a hard line for some, but I've gotta be strong...:)</p>

<p>So let's get off the opie kicking his kids to the curb when they try to assert themselves... opie has rasied his kids to assert themselves, even with opie. They're able to run faster than me anyway. You have to catch them to kick their backsides. </p>

<p>NO I'M REALLY NOT MAD HERE EITHER. SOMETIMES IT'S JUST FUN TO TYPE WITH THE BIG LETTERS.
Cheers all.</p>

55

<p>we were blessed with the Running Start program which let S take university classes( gratis) starting his junior year. Before that he was thinking about biology or chemistry( both strong subjects for him in high school) . After first 2 classes he discovered( while doing well academically) that he strongly dislikes BOTH chemistry and biology. Out the window that prospect went. The senior year he tried humanities. Loved, loved , loved ALL his classes( PoliSci, history, mythology, philosophy) . And that was that. He have not declared a major(was listed as a pre-major on the apps) , but we all see the direction . :-)</p>

56

<p>Another angle to consider for parents responding to this thread, I'm hitting a different end of the spectrum - </p>

<p>Would you continue to pay for college if your kid is taking an 'easy major' (one that requires a minimal amount of work), is taking the minimum number of units consistently, and is spending a considerable amount of time partying or at other non-school related activities? Many in this category, especially when they're loaded with AP credits, could easily and comfortably obtain their degree within 3 years but stretch it to 4 years to enable more partying time. Would you support this by paying for (and enabling) their choices unquestioningly?</p>

57

<p>Opie, </p>

<p>I actually agree with you( more or less) . Sometimes drastic situations call for drastic measures. The thing is, people tend to define "drastic" differently. :-) </p>

<p>I also don't care about the towels thing. Socks left in the living room on the other hand......</p>

58

<p>Opie: OKAY, OKAY WE GET IT NOW!</p>

<pre><code>Actually, you did "ask for it" a bit in post 17 with the reference to the Stanford meeting and "Why would I pay, etc....." Your position did become clearer later. However, it's not much of a solution for kids already in a great college and still being henpecked about their choices --- the realization that they might have to pay for college themselves or leave a place like MIT was no doubt causing some of the sobs the OP overheard. Some students might well be strong and determined enough to pay their own way and get that degree; but another might just commit suicide.
</code></pre>

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<p>UCSD-UCLA dad:</p>

<p>At top colleges, a majority of students come in with enough AP credits to received Advanced Standing, but most of them do not choose to exercize this option. S2 falls into this category. He raced through his public high school and graduated in 3 years, but will take four years through college. There just are so many courses he'd like to take.</p>

<p>I don't know about the partying. If it's partying, then of course, I'd have something to say about it. But lots of college students find their vocation in their ECs. David Halberstam hung out at the Harvard Crimson--as did many who have gone on to great careers in journalism. Conan O'Brien and other SNL writers hung out at the Harvard Lampoon. Some discovered their passions doing community service, etc... So I'd be leery of lowering the boom on college ECs.</p>

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<p>Opie: I understand now better where you're coming from. My personal opinion on the issue of parents paying is that parents either should or shouldn't be willing to pay for college, and shouldn't use financial power to manipulate the choice of major, but that's not even really the issue. My real qualm with every situation that I described in my OP is what I consider to be the abusive nature of the situations. Two of the four that I described weren't even related to paying or not paying based on choice of major - they were kids being harassed about grades. In the case of the other two...you said that if the kids want to do what they please in spite of overbearing parents, they can simply say that they don't need their parents' money and make it on their own, but you implied that if such a thing happened with your own kids, you would respect their decision to make it on their own and still have a good relationship with them. That was my point - these kids were being treated badly by their parents before they were cut off, and they were treated badly after they were cut off (and if, as in the case of one of them, you don't warn them that you're going to cut them off until their tution bill for next term shows up and they've had no chance to prepare, that's pretty nasty too). Their parents weren't respectful of their decisions for showing independence and maturity, they were angry because the kids were defying them, because the real purpose was Either You Play My Way Or I Punish You By Making You Come Home. It's a very different situation from sitting down with your parents and coming to a cordial agreement that in order to be more independent you'll be responsible for your own tuition.</p>