<p>A friend of mine who is in college administration/student services once made a very interesting observation about “fit.”</p>
<p>She said that a student who is happy socially, but struggles academically, rarely wants to leave the school, and that there is a lot of support available to make things work. They can help that student. </p>
<p>But for a student who is unhappy socially, existence on campus is absolutely miserable. A student who goes to every meal alone, can’t find any one to do what she wants to do on a Saturday night, doesn’t click with people on the floor–they don’t have anything to help “fix” the situation.</p>
<p>Many campuses have the same profile on paper. For my S1, those schools were Tufts and Emory. Both schools are about the same size, in urban areas but with real campuses, the same academic profile…And yet to him, after visiting, those schools were as different as night and day.</p>
<p>Lakemom, I don’t disagree, but at a school of 42,000 people I am sure he could have found a big circle of friends. Even at the rowdiest school, things tend to die down after freshman year. As it is, he is going to a school that is also known for some parties but it is much smaller. I am thrilled with his choice, but I wish he didn’t have such a bad feeling about a place that will end up on his grad school list.</p>
<p>Even with a large group of friends, if the environment doesn’t fit…it won’t work for students who aren’t into partying…or being around a party-school type atmosphere on campus/dorms. </p>
<p>Speaking personally, spending a week or two in such an atmosphere would be a form of torture for me…a reason why I made it a point to avoid known party schools when I was looking at colleges. </p>
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<p>Not necessarily. From what I’ve seen of students at BU, BC, and other colleges in the area when I was living in the Boston area…they sure know how to party for 2, 3, or even all 4+ years of their undergrad careers. Sometimes to the point of vandalizing surrounding areas and harassing random people on the street. </p>
<p>Moreover, even my honors graduate cousin at a Midwestern Big-10 state university who went greek admitted at least half of the students on campus…including herself continued to party it up well-beyond freshman year. </p>
<p>Her less academically inclined brother also continued to party it up to the point he almost got tossed out multiple times…including in his junior/senior years. </p>
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<p>Assuming we’re talking a respectable program, grad school is a completely different ball game from undergrad. </p>
<p>Students are not only older, but also expected to focus so much more on their work and working with classmates within their graduate programs/departments that they won’t have much time to go to ye olde undergrad kegger parties. And that’s assuming the undergrads hosting such campus parties are welcoming to grad students/older people, which may not always be the case…especially with possible fears of being informed on for alcohol/contraband. </p>
<p>That’s also not accounting for the possibility that Profs…especially advisers in PhD programs may take an extremely dim view of grad students who they feel don’t prioritize their graduate work/research enough. </p>
<p>Know of several grad student friends and relatives who were dismissed from their programs for this very issue…whether it was spending far too much time attending family dinner parties thrown by their social butterfly parents/older relatives or for refusing to abandon hobbies disapproved by their advisers.</p>
<p>“But for a student who is unhappy socially, existence on campus is absolutely miserable. A student who goes to every meal alone, can’t find any one to do what she wants to do on a Saturday night, doesn’t click with people on the floor–they don’t have anything to help “fix” the situation.”</p>
<p>This is exactly what happened with my D last year. She was an older student and not interested in either getting drunk or going home every weekend, the two top choices. She was in a freshman dorm and everyone was younger, the same for her classes. It was an isolated campus and without a car she was trapped.</p>
<p>In the end, after a struggle with her father over finances, she has enrolled in a local program and is financing most of it herself. She has a job and has friends her own age already here in town so that no matter what happens at school she has a social net. She is already much happier and won’t miss the on-campus atmosphere a bit.</p>
<p>We visited Cornell, Colgate, Tufts and Brandeis on a junior year spring break college trip. At the outset of our trip, S1 was in love with Tufts. On paper, it had exactly what he wanted. He couldn’t wait to set foot on campus…it was the third school we were visiting on the trip, and it was a beautiful spring day. He was all smiles as we got out of the car.</p>
<p>Two hours later, he couldn’t wait to leave. Nothing went right for him that day. Every school has bad days, but 17 year old boys generally don’t see past their immediate experience.</p>
<p>Too many kids in MIT and Harvard t-shirts. A professor who scheduled son for a meeting while he was out of town on vacation (my son showed the letter confirming the appointment to the department secretary who still managed to make my son feel like he was the idiot for showing up). When he asked two girls where Hillel was, they said they were walking in that direction and he could follow them…and never said another word to him (or us…we were walking with him).</p>
<p>A boring, overcrowded information session and an unenthusiastic tour leader.</p>
<p>Tufts came off his list entirely.</p>
<p>We visited Emory in July. It was 98 degrees with equivalent humidity. He didn’t really want to visit, because it was in the south, and he didn’t want to go to the south, but we had heard so many good things from so many people that we tacked it on with a visit to the DC schools. We showed him how similar it was to Tufts on paper…and he was sure he would have the same experience.</p>
<p>He did not want to leave the Emory campus…he wanted us to arrange to stay another day. It was miserable walking around campus…and he loved it. He clicked with every student he met. Admissions called some professors, who were happy to meet with him. He loved the flowers. He loved the marble on all the buildings. He loved walking in Lullwater. He loved the museum.</p>
<p>He ended up applying to Emory ED and spent 4 wonderful years there. If he had not gotten in, the other schools that remained on his list were GW, Brandeis, Cornell and Syracuse.</p>
<p>Boysx3- Thanks! Loved hearing your story. I have heard similar Tufts stories. D2 visited Emory and loved it but won’t be applying ED so, of course, her chances are reduced.</p>
<p>Seems like not much changed from the time one HS classmate toured Tufts in the mid’90s. Only difference was my friend wasn’t turned off by an unenthusiastic tour leader. </p>
<p>If anything, the one he had was the polar opposite to the point of obnoxiousness. The obnoxiousness was furthered when the entire theme of that guide’s/admissions office was “How much fun is Tufts” without much discussion of the academic programs or discussion of anything he felt was substantive. </p>
<p>At this point, he interjected that if he didn’t know better, he’d think the admissions office/guide were trying to sell a stereotypical party school experience…not one of a small university well-respected for its academics. This contrasted to his tour of Brown where the admissions office/guides had a long interesting discussion about Egyptology. </p>
<p>Consequently, he dropped Tufts from his list and started referring to it as “Flufts” to illustrate the lack of substance he perceived from their theme’s emphasis.</p>
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<p>Do your parents have A LOT OF MONEY to the point they can comfortably pay around $60k/year? </p>
<p>If not, I’d strongly urge you to reconsider NYU as they tend to be extremely stingy with FA, their merit aid requires stats comparable to students admitted to the Ivies, and most of their strengths are in their graduate schools.</p>
<p>jimmidawg, do you mind answering the question of why your parents don’t approve of your schools, and if the reason is financial? The schools you mentioned are known for poor merit aid or aren’t more highly regarded than your in-state options. Remember that even if they can afford more, you need to show them that the more expensive options have more “value” than your more affordable option. </p>
<p>Maybe we can help you in other threads create a list that your parents would like and where you can get the kind of education that you want. After all Michigan State is not that different from the UCs.</p>
<p>I encourage you to start a thread that tells us what you want in a school and we can help you with alternatives (especially affordable ones or schools that have the attributes that you and your parents value). That way you will have better reasons than USNWR rankings.</p>
<p>Don’t be surprised if this is mainly due to cost.</p>
<p>UCs are around $30,000 per year in-state.</p>
<p>NYU is around $62,000 per year.</p>
<p>BU is around $59,000 per year.</p>
<p>Michigan State is around $44,000 per year out-of-state.</p>
<p>Try the net price calculators if you expect to be eligible for need-based financial aid.</p>
<p>But if I were either a student or parent, it would be hard to justify paying the price premium for these schools over UCs.</p>
<p>Now, there are private schools with much more generous need-based financial aid than NYU or BU, and some out-of-state public schools with prices similar to that of the UC in-state price (e.g. Minnesota, Virginia Tech) or large merit scholarships (e.g. Alabama for GPA and SAT/ACT score; various others like Georgia Tech, UNC-CH, and NCSU for competitive scholarships).</p>
<p>I sometimes think that my d would have been a Tufts alum by now if we had just had the foresight to drive instead of taking the T for our campus tour. We were cutting it close when we got off the train and had to speed-walk through town and past part of the campus on our way to the admissions office. She loved everything she saw. We got to the appointed entry gate and … it was locked! Sped on to the next gate, which was also locked. Lots of construction going on. Hm. By this time it was 4 minutes before the info session was to start and my daughter can NOT be late for anything. After a brief spirited debate, we slunk back to the T - noticing, as we went, the handpainted sign indicating an alternate entrance. We had walked past it on the way, but thought it was a delivery entrance. As my d said on the way back to the train, it’s hard to miss the symbolic significance of a locked gate (let alone two). It was obviously not for her.</p>
<p>As I read through this thread, I find myself agreeing with parents who want to veto schools because of how much they can afford to pay, or for distance reasons if there are health or social concerns about the student. Otherwise, it seems to me that it should be the choice of a reasonably mature 18 y/o. It worked for us to tell our kids what we could afford over a 4-year period, and let them fill in the blanks.</p>
<p>MizzBee to answer your question my parents are not against the money paid for the college. They can pay any amount of money to send me to a college that would be good for me. They just don’t think that I can do well by myself at a college further away from home.</p>
<p>Am I the only parent here that would pay the money to send the student to William and Mary instead of having her choose between Gettysburg and Muhlenberg? I am sorry, I cannot remember whose D this was, but I remember that William and Mary (a truly wonderful school and the D’s dream school) was crossed off due to ‘debt’ and the D was left to choose between G’burg and M’berg. </p>
<p>I truly believe that some things are worth the price tag. Is there anyone else here that would have paid for William and Mary, or am I way off base here?</p>
<p>You may want to ask them about expensive private schools in California (e.g. Stanford, USC) and lower cost distant schools (like Minnesota, Virginia Tech, and NCSU, whose list price out-of-state costs of attendance are similar to UC list price in-state costs of attendance – or even Alabama if you have the stats for the automatic full tuition scholarship). Then you can tell if it is really about distance, or really about cost.</p>
<p>Many parents I’ve known who’d refuse to pay for their kids to attend BU, NYU, or other expensive private schools with miserly levels of financial aid and/or where the academic levels were perceived as “too low” would happily pay for their kids to attend William and Mary. </p>
<p>Academically, William & Mary in my area(NYC) was considered on par with the respectable/elite colleges whereas the abovenamed ones weren’t considered better…and sometimes arguably worse than some of our better public state/local colleges.</p>