<p>It's a stressful time, Northstarmom. Given the possibility that the answer could be that the mistake was in sending out the invitation to the reception, I don't see the point in subjecting a kid to further embarassment or humiliation.</p>
<p>cal and north moms, I think the discussion about overcoming shyness is very meaningful. There are so many ways to tackle the subject. I often wish more people were shy instead of flaunting the personal into outer space,.. however becoming paralyzed at the deli counter leads to bad sandwiches. Nurturing our kids toward a balanced encounter with the big, bad, world that suits the mystery of their growth is a parental responsibility that demands watchfulness, sleight of hand and sometimes sledgehammer in varying proportions. Perhaps it is not a one size fits all. It's nice to help those you love and I'd rather err on the side of 'spoilage' than flap them to their doom from our high perch,..</p>
<p>Calmom,
There are many times in life in which one will encounter embarassment and humiliation. I see a parent's role while their offspring is still in high school as preparing their student to handle such situations by guiding the students through such things. I don't see it as helpful to protect a student from the kind of embarassment/humiliation that's in the situation we've been discussing.</p>
<p>I had a similar discussion with a friend the other day. Her D was in their home breaking up with a boyfriend. WHen the parent saw the D had been talking to boyfriend for a couple of hours, the parent rescued D by phoning a friend of D's and asking her to come over to help with the situation. The parent also started talking to the boyfriend. This allowed the D to extricate herself from the conversation.</p>
<p>I cringed when I heard the story. If the boyfriend had been getting abusive, then I would have agreed that lots of parental intervention would have been necessary. However, this was simply one of those situations that is hard to do for anyone, and I don't think that a parent should intervene. There are some things that people learn by having to have the pain and stress of going through them. </p>
<p>As always, it's important for me to mention that I was a very shy kid whose mom used to rescue me from the type of stress, anxiety and embarassment we're discussing here. She took those actions out of love, and at the time, I was greatful. However, as I got older, I was still very shy and didn't know how to assertively handle situations that adults must handle. I would have preferred to have learned such things at 16 or 18, not in college and even older , when I had to learn some basic ways of handling tough situations.</p>
<p>That's why I come very strongly down on the side of believing it's important for parents to advise their kids through such experiences, but not to step in and do the talking for their teens. </p>
<p>I also know some middle aged and even older adults who never learned basic assertiveness. Some are women who had moms who stepped in and helped them, and then the women married men who handled all of the difficult situations. In some cases, the women married very controlling guys because the women felt that they needed to have someone to take care of them since the women couldn't handle the normal stressful situations that adults are faced with.</p>
<p>I guess, then, I was guilty of being a helicopter caller six years ago with D--didn't know it was wrong at the time.</p>
<p>The situation: D's quick stats: 1470 SAT, 5/400, 4.0 UW, NMF, yadda yadda. Turned down by Rutgers Honors program. Had already been admitted to far more selective Honors programs, including Mich. And she was instate in NJ!</p>
<p>I called, partly in the role of puzzled taxpayer. Rutgers and other NJ schools claimed to want to retain the best Jersey students, yet were saying this obviously highly qualified student should attend but not be in Honors. </p>
<p>The person in authority was not in when I called, and I was not in when she called back. She left a message that they would be "willing to reconsider". By that time, D had moved on, so we d idn't pursue.</p>
<p>I don't believe it really mattered who called, and I agree with Calmom that it didn't demonstrate a character flaw in my D.</p>
<p>I do wonder how many good students they lose by that kind of action.</p>
<p>garland, I have a friend called Rutgers too. Her D was an atypical student, who spent the greater part of hs in a foreign country. She came back to the US as a senior. She was admitted, but there was an issue about scholarship money. I do not have the specifics, but it involved figuring out her gpa from another country. Anyway, she did get the scholarship, but it took many phone calls. Her mother is very persistant and will not just be turned away. Helicopter parent? Well, call it whatever, but mom was not going to pay more than she had to, and she got what she wanted. I do not think she cares if the personnel at Rutgers think she is a helicopter parent, annoying, or anything else. Mom is polite, respectful, and persistant. I am sure she does not think that her D has a character flaw b/c she wanted to work on ensuring a scholarship, rather than paying full instate tuition.</p>
<p>I am a high school senior (for another couple of weeks, at least), and I cannot imagine my parents calling college admissions offices. </p>
<p>A sixteen/seventeen/eighteen year old needs to know how to talk to adults, talk on the phone, and handle situations for him/herself. If the student doesn't know how to do one or all of these things, then I can certainly see parents giving advice, but under no circumstances should the parents intervene to the point of taking over the job for the child. </p>
<p>I began playing music at paying gigs right after my eleventh birthday. I was pretty articulate and confident, but I certainly didn't know the ins and outs of adult business situations. But you know what? I learned. My mother gave me advice when I had questions (such as how long you could wait after getting a message before calling someone back), but she would never take over for me. I had to set my pay, turn down those who wouldn't pay me an acceptable amount, figure out time and place, explain what I would play, et cetera. I learned how to do this in middle school out of necessity (of a sort); otherwise I probably would be terrified to tell an adult that the pay he was offering me wasn't enough. I would probably feel embarrassed telling him how much I charged in the first place. </p>
<p>If a kid needs to do something, he'll learn how to do it. He may not do it perfectly at first, but most adults would understand that teenagers are only just becoming adults and are still learning. Nevertheless, a high school senior is just about an adult and needs to begin to take on some of the most basic responsibilities that come with growing up, and his parents need to support this change by encouraging him to take on those responsibilities and helping him along the way, when the need arises.</p>
<p>
[quote]
We weren't talking about your offspring. We were talking about a college bound student who apparently fell to pieces over getting a rejection that seemed to be a mistake.
[/quote]
Actually, Northstarmom, I think we are talking about my offspring. I think that one reason that my kids are so independent minded and assertive is that I cut them a little slack from time to time, and I don't turn every event into an object lesson. They have done more for themselves at a younger age than most of their peers -- but they also know they can ask me a favor from time to time. One of the biggest favors a family member can do for another is to step up and take care of a minor task when they observe the other one is feeling sick or upset or overwhelmed. I am sure that one source of my kids' confidence was the realization that in a pinch, their parents would be there to back them up. </p>
<p>I'm not the type of parent to always run after my kids & pick up the pieces -- in fact it is something of a running joke with my kids. I know the other kid I mentioned is very capable and independent, too -- but she happened to get very upset when this situation came up, at a time when she had not yet heard from other colleges. I can see why -- it is a cruel joke if a student receives a likely letter or invitation to apply for a scholarship, followed by a rejection letter. But I think it is crueler still for a parent to force a kid to suffer needlessly. </p>
<p>I appreciate your sharing your own childhood experiences with a hovering parent, but I think you have made the mistake of swinging too far in the other direction. I favor balance, flexibility, and give-and-take.</p>
<p>Hear, hear!</p>
<p>I've learned from my children that they appreciate it when we back off and let them handle things on their own, even if they are difficult. Occasionally the thing that should be handled isn't, and then they live with the consequences. I sometimes nag about what needs to be done, and even look up a phone number, but I only make a call if it's something that cannot be handled by a teenager. There are times when an adult will not answer to a minor.</p>
<p>MrsP.,</p>
<p>Exactly!!!! They are still Teenagers!!!</p>
<p>MrsP, with all due respect, you have been on this board for the past 3 weeks bombarding everyone with questions: when should you visit colleges, when are college applications available & which schools use the common app, how many colleges should a student apply to, and asking for information on specific colleges.</p>
<p>It sounds like you are an extremely involved parent who is proactively taking a big role in planning for your son. If you were the type to back off and let your kid handle things on his own, you wouldn't be here. Your style may be to work in the background and then requiring your kids to do various tasks on their own -- while you "sometimes nag" to make sure things get done -- but you are obviously a big player in your kids' lives.</p>
<p>There's nothing wrong with that - but I do think it is somewhat hypocritical for parents who are so involved in every aspect of their kids' lives to act judgmental about a parent who makes a phone call. You seem to be taking a much bigger role in management and planning than I ever did (for example, I never did college visits with my kids); I seem to be more willing to perform small tasks and errands than you are.</p>
<p>Oh, lets not start the "with all due respect" thingy....lets all be civil and not incite anyone with their views even though they seem to be the opposite of what they post.</p>
<p>Both I and my daughters mother has gone to almost every College Visit except one.</p>
<p>This Parents Calling Colleges is getting out of hand....:(</p>
<p>calmom, it is time for me to leave the forum. It's been helpful but I don't belong here.</p>
<p>MrsP, I do not think that you need tougher skin. I also do not think that you should leave this forum. There are some rather rude or curt comments made on this board from time to time. I would hope that you would just ignore these posters. I think that you want to help your children, and this board has offered such a wealth of information and support. There are some many helpful posters that would like to help, and would like to share information with you. I am sure that as you move along in process that there will be a lot of valuable information that you could share as well. I hope that you will reconsider.</p>
<p>MrsP - don't leave! -- I didn't meant to insult you, I was responding to what I felt was your comments directed at me. I have been dissed by a number of posters for saying that it is sometimes ok for some parents to make phone calls for their kids -- and my whole point is that we shouldn't be passing judgment on them. And I dont appreciate the sense that people are turning up their noses at me because I committed the faux pas of calling my daughter's college to ask a question before making a plane reservation (when, ironically enough, I was sending her off to NY and Boston for a week and leaving it up to her to make all arrangements for accommodations and transportation once she got there). </p>
<p>The reality is that we are all here because we are heavily involved and invested in our children -- if we weren't we would find something else to do with our time. That's why I wrote, "There's nothing wrong with that." I'm just not ready to set down hard and fast rules about how other parents should handle things with their kids.</p>
<p>calmom, I came back to close down my account and saw your reply. I wasn't directing anything at you, but at the discussion. I don't understand why every theoretical discussion on this forum ends up in a battle. I wasn't dissing you. I'm trying to decide if I belong on this forum. The nature of too many of the replies are so hostile, I don't want to participate again. I took your message to mean that I was too new to talk so much and that it was time for me to stop talking. I don't know the rules and I don't seem to be learning them very well.</p>
<p>Yes, I am very involved but not in the way you think. My S got a late start on this process and I'm trying to help him catch up for personal reasons. He has been swamped with a very difficult curriculum and demanding teachers, and his school requires them to begin the search process before school lets out this year. It's not graded, they don't care if the students get help, it just needs to be done. Once the preliminary work is done, I'm done. He's going to fill out his own applications and make his own decisions. When he wants input, he'll ask for it. I am also helping out some parents of special needs children who don't have the ability or time to navigate this site, which is one reason why I'm asking so many questions. There are parents of other juniors in S's school who are merely trying to get through the school year with their children and have yet to start on the search process.</p>
<p>I have a good friend who filled out 15 applications for her child last year because he couldn't or wouldn't do it. She called all the private schools regularly to make sure everything was received. This student didn't get into a single one of those schools, and will be going to a state safety in the fall. I don't know why, but I suspect her calling and leaving her name didn't help. That is what was behind my comments above. I should have explained that.</p>
<p>I'm still debating whether or not I want to stay. This site is extremely useful. I might be able to help other people out. But I don't like the way people talk to one another.</p>
<p>you should stay. people are usually nice and the information is worth dealing with the occasional flare</p>
<p>Well actually, while I do see that debate gets heated, I have also seen people spend time and effort to giving you very thoughtful responses and suggestions. This is a discussion board, and people have different points of view - so yes a simple question can involve into a long and contentious discussion. </p>
<p>I am sorry that you misinterpreted my post. I realize that we all have extreme examples in mind -- but that is why I don't like seeing broad pronouncements of what parents should & shouldn't do. It is not a situation of one extreme or the other -- and no one should have to give explanations or excuses. It doesn't matter why you are trying to help your son catch up -- of course he's busy. So are the kids whose parents have called college admissions offices on their behalf. Just because some parents take things too far doesn't mean that every parent who participates in some way in the process should be condemned. </p>
<p>However: if you are on here now looking for information because your son got a late start, and you are helping him catch up for personal reasons, and has a difficult and demanding curriculum.... I think in fairness you need to realize that as busy as things can get in the spring of junior year, they get way busier and far more intense during senior year when college apps are due. So it is not really fair to announce when you have not yet been through the process that once this part is done, you won't be helping any more and your son is going to do it all -- and expect everyone else should do the same. Because you may find yourself doing a lot more than you ever planned and expected when there are a bunch of different college and scholarship and financial aid application deadlines to juggle.</p>
<p>Mrs P
Don't leave..this board can be extremely helpful.I see also that asubject comes up and debate starts,and can get really heated, and seemingly over trivial things, and over nuances in language as well. Don't let that deter you, just step back, read and don't answer (or let the answers inflame you).
Use the board as a great source of information.If its too inflammatory to participate then just lurk for information purposes. After awhile you get used to the more frequent contributor's styles and can choose to engage in debate with them or not.</p>