<p>Yes, if it were a Roth, generally, there would be no required minimum distributions. Such distributions are generally taxed as income as withdrawn. Since her income is mostly SS and this IRA, it shouldn’t be as much of a tax hit. </p>
<p>Glad you are going to see the attorney soon. It should be a great help!</p>
<p>To pay for the lawyer on Mon, the bank requires I appear IN PERSON(they have acopy of our power of attorney) so I canshift funds from IRA to checking. Cant do it over the phone. The bank is far away (in the town my parents moved FROM; they never moved their bank locally) So this is consuming every minute of my day every day. Wanted to mention, I just got the most astonishing email from the Polish agency rep who graciously replied to my slightly stern email of yesterday that this arranggement is indeed an employer/employee relationship, NOT an independent contractor relationship. He agreed that that is most correct,and if his clients want to be right that is what they should do. He operates as a “matchmaker.” I asked him to graciously explain to Maria,the caregiver with whom we have a verbal agreement, the scenario I expect to get from the lawyer (employer/employee),how much we love her, howgreat my mother andthe home ammenities are,but if she insists on being an “independent contrator” if the lawyer tells us no,then we will have to start seeking women all over again. Andthe work involved in being a “employer” is frightening me. I have one D in college, one going into 11th grade,andan 11 yr old. I should be doing the college work for DD2 NOW. </p>
<p>Something that’s been on my mind…if I may ask, dear Cardinal Fang, several times you have raised the dark side of this situation,specifically from the money angle. Do you have any suggestions about what I might do better or how to act more prudently? Remember, my mother would never agree to leave the house or go into a nursing home.</p>
<p>Also be aware that she may again end up in a nursing home, for longer, (and then AL) for medical reasons beyond her control. Eg, a broken hip is tough for the elderly to overcome. Nursing offers rehab, but after that, some AL places will also have rehab on prem, for any onging. It becomes simpler. The question could be whether your mom would still need personal assistance, eg, walking to the bathroom, getting a glass of water, beyond what AL may offer in their packages. (This is my friend’s situation with her mom.) And that would add to costs. Someone said spreadsheet it. I’m a fan of having a column or two for “ultimate worst case.”</p>
<p>If Mom doesn’t have enough in checking to cover the Monday fee, could you pay it and then be reimbursed when her SS comes in? Then later transfer funds, when it’s convenient? </p>
<p>Also, consider arabrab’s and Himom’s rec to use a payroll company for the deductions and etc (including periodic reports prepared for you.) It’s a form of shared responsibility. Generally, they stay on top of legal requirements, sparing you.</p>
<p>Somehow @dharmawheel your mother does not grasp that the money will run out even with her savings, SS and paid for home because the daily rate will draw down sharply on her SS money and $60,000 savings.</p>
<p>I would NEVER allow a reverse mortgage. They are bad, bad, bad. </p>
<p>Your mother’s denial is really strong.</p>
<p>Have you tried AL again - maybe your mother will not see it as a bad alternative, or does she not meet the entry requirements for AL? From current AL rates, her savings will not be drawn down as much - if you told her the nursing home can be avoided this way but not the other way, would she reconsider?</p>
<p>I do think it is very much an eventuality that her home has to be sold - closer with drawing down her assets quickly. As others have said, it will probably also take some of her savings to fix it up for selling. Sounds like the location would make it a quick sale.</p>
<p>Your mother has used suicide threat because she does feel backed into a corner. Sad that 10 years ago she also was intent on committing suicide and almost achieved death.</p>
<p>Can you get the banking moved to convenient to you?</p>
<p>Maybe the first thing each morning you can attend to doing something toward DD2 ‘college work’ - that way you can feel good that you are giving some priority to her. Also discuss college options with her and have a plan for you two to work together efficiently and effectively.</p>
<p>Sending prayers and hugs your way.</p>
<p>You are pursuing things the best way you can. Hope you can see a good way with the situations at hand.</p>
<p>So it seems you can purchase low cost worker’s comp insurance? I know instead of an employer TIN, you can use SS#.</p>
<p>What I see may be a problem with your mother is that she likes the daily care at home irregardless of the financial consequences for herself. Maybe this is a bit tied to her mental status. Gets into Elder Care issues big time.</p>
<p>From current AL rates, her savings will not be drawn down as much. An ongoing question I have is what some of your parents are paying for AL. Here, a decent place with the square footage my mother wants, seems to run around 6k (one person,) before extra attention is added. She found a possible place in AZ that’s much less, but I think it’s independent living and they don’t have an associated AL wing there. </p>
<p>Dharmawheel, I have a friend who is a retail banker in CT (a single mom who adopted from China by the way) who says that there are good reverse mortgage products. I think they are more heavily regulated than they used to be. Of course this could be a state-by-state thing, but it could work out for your mother, assuming you can work out the categories of caregiver and the liability issues. It’s my understanding that worker’s comp in NY can be very expensive for very small employers so make sure you work that into the payment equation.</p>
<p>If your mother is lucid, I would make sure to explain very thoroughly what it will cost for caretakers, and be sure to include the expense of a servicer to cover the paperwork and payroll, agency fees, etc. If she is determined to stay in her home, she needs to know the price; you don’t need the additional obligation of being an unpaid part-time bookkeeper for her homecare enterprise. Also if you do investigate a reverse mortgage, make sure she understands the consequences: that she is selling her house month by month to pay for one-on-one caretakers.</p>
<p>I agree that if you can lay out the money to see the lawyer, you will be reimbursed. Ask the lawyer how to handle the documentation for that. And talk to him about reverse mortgages.</p>
<p>For sure this stuff is extremely taxing emotionally, to say nothing of how difficult it is to choose the right way to proceed, especially with a parent who can be difficult under the best of circumstances. You are in the middle of a classic generational sandwich! I (and many of us here) know exactly how that feels. Good luck and take care of yourself.</p>
<p>Whatever sums you pay, be sure you use checks and keep receipts and a spreadsheet so you can be reimbursed and show the paper trail of where the money came from and went. Good luck! Hope your D can step up and do more of her college app prep and search herself, perhaps with help from HS counselor? Agree it would be good to see if mom’s funds could be transferred to nearby bank instead of distant bank.</p>
<p>Sorry, is AL Assisted Living? Must be. When my mother was in the hospital for a long time following her suicide attempt yrs ago, the MDs wanted her in Indepenndent Living so as not to be alone and while she was in the hospital I visited quite a few retirement communities ,maybe as many as 6. The least expensive was $3K a mo and I am sure they are much more now. She demanded to return home and was allowed with frequent “supervision” from me… I am scrolling through here because I think someone mentioned aid for AL but I don’t think there is such a thing. My MIL spent her last dime on Independent Living and coincidentially dementia requiring a NH set in fast just as she ran out of funds. </p>
<p>Oh yes, my mother is certainly in denial about running out of money and with a Social Worker present in the hospital last wk we made it firmly unhderstood that she cannot live with me. When she runs out of money, I see no alternative,based on my very limited knowledge of all this, but that she will have to move to a NH provided by Medicaid, as my MIL. I hope she doesn’t harbor any idea that after her money runs out she will be living with me, but no need to approach that for about a year.</p>
<p>About the lawyer bill, as I wrote, I can go to the bank this afternoon in person and with the power of attorney they have on file transfer from her IRA to her checking.</p>
<p>I know nothing about spreadsheets and will have to learn. DD is doing much college and test prep and AP summer homework, a real angel. Where I need to step in is on finding merit scholarships (school with high merit or schools with broad flexibility on assessing families with unusual need like mine) and talking one to one to people in Fin Aid about our unusual financial picture…</p>
<p>Many of the merit awards are based on grades and test scores and tied to the U that your kiddo ultimately attends, or that has been the case for S and many of the other families I have spoken with. Financial need is much more numbers based, and families need to timely file all the forms required by each U for full consideration. The has some flexibility (especially private Us) on allocating between grants vs loans, particularly for students they really want. We didn’t expend much energy on searching for local merit awards, as most in our area or which came to our attention had a component of need as well, and on paper we didn’t meet the definition of need.</p>
<p>You can just be sure to keep detailed records of your expenses and withdrawals–from which account and what was paid with those funds. Your D should be able to teach you the basics of spreadsheets, so you can create a basic one of your mom’s funds–income and expenses.</p>
<p>Dharma, I am so sorry you are joining us, it isn’t fun or easy.</p>
<p>AL is assisted living. Almost every state has places that will let a person move in and will not kick them out when they run out of money, but will take medicare and SS and let them stay. I would certainly consider that for her.</p>
<p>I urge you to keep some boundaries with your Mom, yes, she can be in denial all she wants, but you do not have to facilitate that, but I know, as a daughter, it is so hard. Some people never get why I wouldn’t put my mom in an AL place nearer to me. Distance is a great excuse. Now that she is more demented and less apt to cause trouble, it might work, but I think she can still strike out so wouldn’t consider moving her. Plus moving is really hard on older people. </p>
<p>Good luck with it all. Practice some self-care, too because if you are worn out, you can’t help anyone. And your DD needs you, too!</p>
<p>Lookingforward - My mother is paying $2495/month + $650/month for level 2 care for a total of $3145/month. She lives in a small town. This is a facility that has independent living also and the fee includes 3 meals a day. She has 1 bedroom and a small combo living/kitchenette. Hope this helps. Oh - and we are in Texas.</p>
<p>My parents pay about $4400/month for independent living in a CCRC. My FIL paid about $2800/month for AL.<br>
6K seems like a lot, but it seems very dependent on the part of the country you are in. </p>
<p>Esobay - excellent advice.</p>
<p>Dharma, I hope you can hear what Esobay is saying. Your mom is in denial about her finances and she evidently expects you to waive the magic fairy wand and make it all better. That’s a very unreasonable expectation but she’ll get it if you don’t place some appropriate boundaries. </p>
<p>I’ll give you an example that we faced not too long ago. My FIL was failing and could no longer move without assistance. At night, when his nighttime routine would begin (bathroom and then to bed), my MIL could no longer manage to help him ( he was rather heavy and had lots a great deal of muscle and she is a tiny woman). So they called on their sons for help. Initially it was for only a couple times a week and two of the brothers took turns. And they wanted them to come quite late in the evening (11:30 or later) so that the father could keep to his usual routine. Well, both of the sons work so it was unreasonable to expect them to be out so late on a work night. So, with in a couple weeks, my husband proposed a change in the timing. He was nice about how he said it, but the bottom line was I can come at 10 - take it or leave it.
Then he began to need more help and they needed nightly help so the boys had to come more often. Within a short time of this new request/demand, the boys together said no - you now need to hire help. We can not do this. Again, it was said nicely, but they would not budge on this. It was an appropriate boundary as the request was unreasonable.</p>
<p>Your mom’s request (it’s unspoken but the request is: 'make it work so that I can stay in my house no matter what) is unreasonable. And by the way, you have to do all the work to make this happen. Too bad that the granddaughters might also need you. I need you to do this for me NOW. </p>
<p>I hope that I have not come across as unkind or uncaring. I’m just aiming to be realistic. I understand that when you are in the midst of things, it can be hard to see what is reasonable and what is not. I wish you well. </p>
<p>Dharma I’m confused about the independent contractor remark. You would want to treat the companion as an independent contractor 1099 employee as far as I can tell. That way you do not need to withhold and submit payroll taxes and unemployment withhold etc. plus if she’s a contractor she is responsible for her own insurance and so forth. </p>
<p>There is no easy black and white test for 1099 vs w2 personnel. But I believe in this situation she is definitely acting as a contractor. Maybe I missed something up thread. </p>
<p>My dad used to use suicide threats to blackmail Mom into springing him from skilled nursing AMA .</p>
<p>The first time he tried it on me I said, “Are you serious?” “Yes.” “I mean really serious, Dad? You’d actually rather die than stay here for a few more days?” “Yes.” “Well, let me get the doctor then.” “The doctor? Why?” “Because he might want to refer you to a psychiatric facility for an evaluation.” </p>
<p>And that was the end of that.</p>
<p>Not to say that suicide threats should be taken lightly. Ever. At all. If Dad really had been suicidal, I would have proceeded to get the doctor. But I was 99.998% sure that he was bluffing, and using a manipulation tactic that had been highly effective in the past. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Dharma, I don’t think YOU are doing anything wrong. You’re caught in the middle.</p>
<p>But I think your mother wants the impossible. She wants to be able to afford two fulltime paid staff to allow her to stay in her house indefinitely, and that is an unrealistic desire with the money she has. After three years (probably less), all her money will be gone, and her house will be gone too.</p>
<p>Like the others in this thread, I think that if she insists on hiring the two caretakers, you should insist that she also get a servicer to cover the employment paperwork. </p>
<p>The other important issue is that if a person lives in a skilled nursing or AL place when they can pay, they are more likely to be able to stay when they have used all their assets and become eligible for Medicaid than if they try to enter under Medicaid when they have already exhausted all their assets. The attorney should help you better understand the options so you can explain them clearly to mom. The options for folks who have no assets and are wholly reliant of Medicaid are few and not all that attractive, especially when they had other options if they had been more realistic about choices earlier.</p>
<p>Agree with Fang #3356. A payroll service isn’t all that expensive, especially when you consider how much time you would have to spend processing payroll and other documents, reports to various government entities, tax payments, keeping constantly current on payroll and labor law, and ensuring you’re in compliance with every jot and tittle. One thing I eventually learned the hard way is this: If you can reasonably pay someone to do it, then pay them. There is more than enough to occupy you that only you can do. Payroll isn’t one of those things. Farm it out.</p>
<p><em>You</em> are now a scarce resource. Your mother needs you. Your family needs you. Maybe a job needs you. Friends need you. And YOU need you. You cannot give all of <em>you</em> to your mother. Everything else will break down, including you.</p>
<p>I hope you’re taking in what esobay, bookreader and others are telling you. Many of us on this thread had to hit rock bottom before we learned the importance of boundaries. Our parents may want us to do things that are impossible. Or if possible, then unreasonable. They are like toddlers in many ways, caring only about their own wants, and having no consciousness of anyone else’s needs, including ours. When your kids were little, you often said No, either because a thing was impossible, or because it wasn’t good for them. They didn’t like it, and you didn’t expect them to. But No was nonetheless the correct answer, no matter how much they argued, pouted, or fussed. If you don’t draw clear boundaries with these parents – and stick to them no matter what – they will eat you alive.</p>
<p>What your mom wants isn’t possible. The fact that she really really really wants it doesn’t make it possible. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you can start moving toward a realistic solution.</p>
<p>This isn’t easy, we all know. Every one of us has had to make difficult, sometimes heart-wrenching decisions about our parents. It’s rough. </p>
<p>The lawyer I am seeing on Mon devotes her whole practice to elder care and she will certainly provide a wealth of ideas.I am thinking I will ask my mother to be near her phone from 3-4 so I can put the lawyer on the phone directly with her. An AL facility that offers medicaid after private pay runs out sounds like the most reasonable solution but Im sure she would refuse to move. The "illogical/unrealistic"scenario of caregivers financed by savings than then a reverse mortgage appears to be the path that will be taken, unless the lawyer can offer a better picture she would agree to. What happens after the money runs out, including that maneuvers and threats she uses on me, will be the critical juncture . At that point she will have no choices, be in such poor health (including wheelchair) and need personal skilled nusing care to bathe and dress, I presume a nursing home would be the ONLY alternative, even if she had means. Yes, as readers have deduced, she is a very demanding and strong willed woman. At the first nursing home, she was so angry that her laundry wasnt being done soon enough, that she put it all in a big white hospital bag, somehow dragged it to the nursing station on top of her walker, and announced that if it were not taken from her and done immediately she would find the laundry in the bldg and do it herself. And she told me this over the phone with pride in her own ingenuity and resourcefulness. It goes without saying, I am quite afraid of her and have been for years.</p>