<p>Thank you for your comment, old mom. I agree, if it is “legal,” to my mind–and I’d say to any formal Chamber of Commerce a the fine one that exists in my small home town–it is wrong. Can you help me with the meaning of “all fees have to be disclosed” and how I might pursue this with Brooklyn Legal Aide or any other proper authority? It does seem terribly unfair and wrong to charge the caregiver. Thanks.</p>
<p>Dharma, is the appointment on Thursday to convince your mom? I’m wondering because it’s clear by now that she’s not going to be convinced. You must move ahead with AL, with or without her acquiescence.</p>
<p>Dharmawheel, I would try the State Dept. of Financial Services
<a href=“http://www.dfs.ny.gov/about/contactus.htm”>http://www.dfs.ny.gov/about/contactus.htm</a>
or the Attorney General:
<a href=“http://www.ag.ny.gov/contact-attorney-general”>http://www.ag.ny.gov/contact-attorney-general</a></p>
<p>Rockymtnhigh, what a nice ending. Enjoy the piece! </p>
<p>Dharma, are you sure this employment charge is your priority now, worth setting ahead of all the other tasks? And can you clarify for us, what permission level you have for the docs to return your calls and/or heed your wishes, for a woman they (apparently) feel is competent? </p>
<p>rockymtnhigh – that is a really lovely memory; I hope you long enjoy it. </p>
<p>Dharmawheel – I’d put your energy into getting your mom into AL, and not worrying about the employment agency fees. Maybe you can comp the woman something extra after your mom goes to AL. </p>
<p>Is the agency the one that hired her as a 1099 contract employee? Did they tell her up front there would be a fee? If not, she could file a complaint with the state, yes?</p>
<p>True. If you can get your mom moved, you’ll have lots of time to take care of the payroll agency issue afterward!</p>
<p>From some NY state info I pulled up, the dual fees seem to be allowable. There are conditions, but the current priority is AL and ensuring the aide is properly paid.</p>
<p>With patient permission (in writing), a physician can speak with anyone a patient allows, regardless of the patient’s competency. Sometimes the form for that is called a release of information. That is different than when a PoA or health care proxy is invoked due to a patient’s current limitations. When competent DH has surgery, I am authorized for the post op check-in with the surgeon, for example. </p>
<p>^ I’m not sure this covers returning phone calls on a routine basis or taking directives from the family member. I’m looking at the HHS page. Eg, I am listed in my mother’s med records, but can’t expect the docs the call me with a digest of an appt or listen to what I think they should say to her. I know this can vary. And I do see the wording for hospital status or info about, eg, recovery steps.</p>
<p>Dharmawheel, I think you need to rehearse a speech to your mom: that the current situation is not working out because of all the trouble with the payroll agency, the additional expense when the rules change about overtime, the need to do her shopping and errands. You just won’t be able to deal with the burdens it places on you, and her money will be gone very quickly. So by X day (a week?), you will stop doing what you are doing. You will be happy to handle the transition to assisted living and selling the house, plus the help she’ll need once she’s at AL. AL is the only solution. Then leave.</p>
<p>And maybe put a gentle arm on her shoulder and stroke her hand, when you say it. Then let the caregiver take over.</p>
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<p>Dharma, this is not just “afterthought” advice from oldmom and LF (and others). It is extremely important that after you explain the situation, you leave the room. No apologies. No excuses. No explanations beyond briefly laying out the facts. You need to physically remove yourself from her presence.</p>
<p>Agree with the need to keep it very brief, repeat the plan ( not necessarily why) and do not engage in a discussion. It’s like arguing with a child about why they can’t have candy before dinner. </p>
<p>I’ll put the employee’s problem aside for now.I got fired up because it seems so unfair, but I don’t have the time or energy for it now, and it can be inquired into and resolved later. Oldmom,thank you for the links. I am always amazed at what you can find out of know about.</p>
<p>LF,I’m not sure I understand your questions. The psychologist has been treating my mother for bi-polar disorder at least since I was 18,I remember. I could have been even younger, probably was…I just don’t remember. After nearly every session now in her elder years he comes to the car where I wait outside (she cannot take the stairs to the normal office so he has a spare room off his garage to see her and I wait comfortably in the car) to comment on my mother, remind me to remind her to take her Iron,make some care comment about her directed to me,about her condition and care.He clearly sees me as"involved" and does not see or I should say believe he should not share with me out of respect for privacy laws “to protect his client” or whatever. She is a decrepit 88 year old Etc. She viciously attacked me while the car was parked on Friday. I told her I would not listen but she said she would continue to talk. She told me she would not go to AL. The elder lawyer,in contrast, a few weeks ago, had her say she would go. At this juncture, I need an adult ally–professional–whom I trust,and especially whom my MOTHER TRUSTS–and I think the psyciatrist will read my letter,call me,and agree to use his influence to guide her to see there is no alternative but AL. So does that help you to understand why I believe/trust the shrink to return my call? He did last month when I had a question and asked to be provided with updates.</p>
<p>Don’t forget,7 years ago my mother attempted to commit suicide and I met the shrink at the hospital early in the am frequently for intimate updates and instructions to me on how to conduct myself, follow up, etc. After she was sent home (3 months?) he and i were in close contact,and while I am certainly not her “conservator” and while I’m sure he would classify her as “competent,” we do have a “special circumstances” understanding. He clearly sees me as having some(undefined) role in her care/wellbeing.</p>
<p>LasMa, to answer why we are going on Thurs, it is simply a routine visit. He requires her to be seen by him once a month, and because she has been ill since June and has not seen him since May, he requires to see her,now in August.</p>
<p>LasMa…forgive me for being such an idiot…but I don’t understand how I can get her to AL “with or without her acquiescence.” Do I pull her from her chair with say,moving men hired from Clancey Brothers and have them hold her down in the car and then carry her into the AL? I’m not joking; I feel like an idiot but I can’t imagine a scenario where I can get her will to bend and go. Did I write about how she said the simple kitchen in the resident’s room was a wet bar, that the place we saw was for alcoholics, when it was clearly a simple kitchen without burners to make a snack or meal? To me,that remark was ;psychotic or at the very least delusional, but she can appear perfectly normal. But her thoughts (unless she is ;putting on an appearance to look//seemnormal) are comp;letely irrational and at this point she will face no fact about reality or the future at all. That’s why I want to enlist the MDs help, and if necessary, if my mother agrees, visit the elder lawyer again for another (expensive) “pep talk”. I am also thinkinng about having my mother’s representative fromthe county of the aging come to the house to talk to her (and me). She comes to the house for periodic visits and I think she will agree to that,understtandingthe situation.</p>
<p>My SW worker friend inCT told me that in CT there is something called Protective Services for the Elderly that can gently use force (almost always slightly threatening persuasive talk) to get an elder to move. My friend has had to have them come to clients several times. But fromtalking to my mother’s caremanager in our county inNY, I do not think we have that in NY.</p>
<p>But I want to end on a p;ositive note. On the one hand,my mother has said NO. BUT she has agreed to see an AL place tomorrow and another on Fri. So, that must mean some hope, yes?</p>
<p>Question; this morning my daughter’s piano teacher suggested my daughter go with us to visit the AL on Fri to add some “uplift”. (DD is not free tomorrow but she says she is willing to go on Fri). I thought it was a creative suggestion,but I can’t tell at all if it would help, hinder, or make no difference at all. What do you think?</p>
<p>Again, I am so sorry, I apologize for the long post.</p>
<p>What I’m curious about is, did you mother give you permission to speak on her behalf or on your own behalf re: what you think the doc should do or say. This is different than care instructions or a hospital update. You’ve mentioned several times expecting calls to be returned, these professionals to listen to your opinions and become allies. I’m not sure how appropriate that is.</p>
<p>The other reason I ask, of course, is to see what true, ultimate authority you have- not just, so to say, the kindness of strangers.</p>
<p>Now, jumping to your daughter: No. The girl who developed an eating disorder based on her grandmother’s unfiltered comments? A kid still in hs, sorting out her self? The priority here isn’t how your girl can help YOU with your mother, but how you can protect your girl from more arrows. Take the caregiver.</p>
<p>Ask the aide, the paid employee, to take on the uplifting role.</p>
<p>NY state has Adult Protective Services. It can be googled. We don’t know if the case manager is already linked to that.</p>
<p>New York has services like CT
<a href=“http://www.ocfs.state.ny.us/main/psa/”>http://www.ocfs.state.ny.us/main/psa/</a></p>
<p>You might want to be careful about terminology you use. Your mom doesn’t sound psychotic or delusional. She likely pinged off the expression “wet bar” and heard “bar”. While in some cases, yes it can be a clang association associated with a thought disorder, it doesn’t sound like she has that history. It could easily be cognitive slippage.</p>
<p>What I think people here are trying to delicately say is that you need to simplify everything-- for her and for yourself. If you get opinions and input from too many people and places, it can be conflicting and overwhelming. For you and for her. If, and I mean IF you really feel you need to check out more than 3 AL’s, do it yourself and rule out all but 2. Then take her to the 2 and give her the choice of the 2. You are making this into outings for her, and now including your daughter. And then she’ll insist on stopping at stores and you will acquiesce and then regret it later. It will be exhausting for everyone. Its exhausting just reading it here.</p>
<p>What might be helpful is to practice here being brief and to the point. Reread your posts before you post them and then edit them down to the key, salient components. This can be a very helpful exercise.</p>
<p>** crossposted with LF***</p>
<p>Dharmawheel, you have to tell your mother that you will not continue facilitating her staying home. If she can get her own reverse mortgage, manage her own employees and their compensation, acquire her own groceries, etc., then fine. If not, then there has to be a big change.</p>
<p>LF, a great insight against bringing DD2–brilliant and quite correct, I thank you immensely.</p>
<p>When my mother was hospitalized, yes she gave me broad permission to speak with her MD. He and I spoke at length in June. I realize and understand your thoughts and concerns, but I think he would only follow a professional role approved,asI remember,by my mother, years ago.</p>
<p>The woman at the facility did not call the sink a “wet bar.” IT was a small, simple kitchen sink.</p>
<p>jym,big thanks for the link - i will look at it. And the advice too.</p>
<p>Oldmom, I look at and study your comment hard and don’t know what to say. Are you saying, like to, starve her out?Cut off her lifeline to the outside world and force her to say “uncle?”</p>
<p>Dharmawheel, you will never escape if you look at it that way. Do you owe your mother 10 hours a week of management skills so she can stay home for a year and then face either an awful nursing home that she will shame you about sending her there, or moving into your house? I think not. But if you let her manipulate you, that’s what will happen. She is a master manipulator and she is playing you like a violin.</p>