Parents caring for the parent support thread (Part 1)

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<p>Travelnut, You’ve given me some good talking points for when (if?) the director of the senior care agency returns my call. I am also researching “nanny tax” issues in the event we are able to find supplemental care outside of the agency.</p>

<p>Aqua- That is really tough that your mom doesn’t want to make use of the continuing care option that’s already included in her fees. The worst decision I made on my recent visit was taking my mom to visit her friend in skilled nursing at one of nicest continuing care facilities in her area. Most of the residents were there physically, but “gone” mentally, and I know my mom just couldn’t imagine herself there.</p>

842

<p>Oh, it is a big issue when the parent is in that gap between foolishness and dementia. Especially when one was not so responsible eve. It took a long time for DH and me to come to the conclusion that my MIL’s mental state was no longer where it was acceptable. I think her whole town knew before we did, and my DH is still in some sort of denial though even he has to admit that she is failing mentally. She can really hold her own in conversation for a good 15-20 minutes at given times, but then she is talking to non existent people and making no sense at various times of the day. We were very fortunate that no one took much advantage of her as they easily could have.</p>

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<p>Cpt --</p>

<p>My D and his sisters were also in denial. I think it was very difficult for them to accept that she had Alzheimer’s. They wanted to believe it was just forgetfulness. It was quite obvious to me way before it was even on their radar. Her conversations mainly consisted of asking the same questions over and over again. She had absolutely no short term memory.</p>

844

<p>Cpt, aquamarinesea and others- Totally get it. Denial is a big problem. That in-between cognitive stuff is so hard to get a handle on and can leave everyone vulnerable. Not having short term memory can be dangerous in an unsupervised setting. While many elders do the frequent re-telling of the same stories in my observation, there can be a difference when they can’t tell you if they have had lunch, what they did this morning, etc. If there is “no” short term memory, it becomes unlikely that meds will be taken consistently or appropriately, or that other newish procedures will be followed. </p>

<p>If the elder hasn’t had a recent change in living arrangements, all can appear smoother on the surface than it really is, as they may, for a period of time, have routines holding them together. Scratch the surface and they are lost. For example, my parent lived in assisted living for 7 years. When he needed to find his way to a friend’s new room in a different part of the complex, I was enlisted to help him learn his way. The “trip” required knowing the way to the dining room and proceeding straight. While he got himself to dinner and lunch every day, when we would come to the crossroads, if I asked which way to the dining room, it was a guess. He was like the duck in the water, peddling very hard under the surface, invisible unless you looked carefully. I knew this social man would not be able to sustain an engaged life for himself in the less structured environment and that the staff, though devoted, did not have the time to prompt him all day. He would never remember who to see when or what was going on. The move to a structured memory care unit at the skilled nursing level has made all the difference. While he is one of the “higher functioning” people there at this point, he has plenty to do, great relationships with staff and residents, and no need to remember anything. Eight months later, he still needs prompting about directions on the unit, though he is oriented to people and not confused in his behavior otherwise. He is very happy. I am relieved.</p>

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<p>travelnut --</p>

<p>Thanks for sharing your story about your father who is doing well in the memory unit. I especially liked your duck analogy.</p>

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<p>My friend is dealing with this and has been for months. Last summer there were issues with Mom’s business, they worked for quite a while and got the kids in a position to take care of that business. Then there was another issue on the list which they worked through. Over the past 5-7 months they have dealt with everything on their original list and felt pretty good.</p>

<p>Now they have realised Mom cannot even take her pills properly, they thought she could not set them out right, but they organized pill boxes and it still doesn’t work. Assisted living is much closer than they had realized.</p>

847

<p>Maybe I should start a new thread but here is my problem. </p>

<p>Mom had to go into a nursing home a couple of months ago. Dad is in his home a few blocks away. </p>

<p>Now Dad is worried (and rightly so, he is 87), about what to do about handling paying of the bills if he becomes unable to do so. The money is there but my sister and I are 2,000 miles away. </p>

<p>At first he wanted to put us on all his accounts, checking, brokerage houses, everything. I didn’t want this because we have two kids in college who both get grants of financial aid and I didn’t want this money to be potentially included as an asset of mine. My SSN would have gone on the accounts. I also don’t know if this brings up any gift tax issues for him. </p>

<p>A power of attorney is another mechanism. But I’ve read that if I were to pay bills and handle accounts, this can be a hassle as financial institutions want to see the POA every time you do something with the account. </p>

<p>Then there’s the issue of distance, having the bills forwarded, it just seems overwhelming. </p>

<p>How have the rest of you handled this?</p>

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<p>TatinG … the POA is limited for banks and the IRS anyway. You have to get bank specific ones. Your points on getting added to the banks are also valid.
What I did for the one bank account that my brother can sign on (I can sign on the other) was just take on-line access. You can use the bill pay to pay the bills, even get most of them electronically. Many many places now have autopayments, too. We got Mom on some autopay to her credit card, then auto pay the credit card to the bank so that I could see the amounts and be sure that there was enough in there to pay. The problem comes with deposits (which anyone CAN make with the deposit slip). and making sure that there is enough money to pay the bills.
I wanted to switch Mom’s autopay of social security to an account in her trust that she can’t sign on (She just went to the bank and cleaned it out with the money we’d just put in to pay late/overdue taxes). No one knows where that money went now. … but that is a different story. Social security is a pain to switch because I can’t do it electronically and I don’t want to talk to Mom about it . especially since some days she is going to have me thrown in jail for stealing her money…because she doesn’t remember taking it, so someone else must have. sigh.
But I do recommend the on-line access.</p>

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<p>TatinG,
In our case my mom had a trust and my brother was made co-trustee. He showed the document to all the banks/brokerages and they quickly added his name to all the accounts. He accesses everything online. The trust still owns the assets, so they are not technically in his name. A trust also helps to avoid hassles when it’s time to distribute an inheritance.</p>

<p>Travelnut, your story of your dad is encouraging, that moving to memory care seems to be the right thing to do. We have been looking at the independent option at continuing care places, but I think we’re all fooling ourselves.</p>

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<p>Dad and Mom set up a trust a long time ago, but I don’t know if they ever transferred their assets into it. Something else to ask an estate lawyer. Dad gets easily flustered and would prefer to just add our names to the accounts not really understanding all the potential ramifications of that. He’s not going to understand and thus won’t like the trust idea. They didn’t understand it years ago. Didn’t understand that the trust should have ownership of the brokerage account. </p>

<p>Dad also doesn’t trust automatic deposit or online banking so he will object to that. He likes taking his checks personally into the bank. Won’t even use the ATM. </p>

<p>I suppose with a power of attorney, I could authorize his and Moms pension checks to be automatically deposited. And I suppose that would allow me to authorize disbursements to the checking account from the brokerage account. </p>

<p>I don’t mind having a joint checking account so long as there is only a minimal amount in it. But I cannot screw up my kid’s grants and aids by having the government think that I have access to a lot of money when I can barely afford the plane fare to visit them to take care of these things.</p>

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<p>Get a power of attorney for handling the finances and then put everything on line. You don’t have to be named on the account and you can pay everything sitting at your computer I do most of all bill that way now.</p>

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<p>

With my Mom we eventually worried about my Mom losing really important things like her wedding ring and jewelery given to her from her Mom. When she lost things she was sure someone had stolen them so she started hiding things to keep them safe … and naturally could not remember what or where she put things. We ended up proactively taking “important” things and storing them so my Mom couldn’t lose them. As it is we took this action late enough we’re actually worried about eventually giving away her stuff … and possible having to check everything to make sure something (jewelery, money, etc) is not hidden in her socks, book pages, etc.</p>

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<p>TatinG- agree with others that it is good to have power of attorney in place. How good that your father is able to be concerned about this. The great thing about PoA is that they sit dormant unless you need them in a particular area. If they are being drawn up and there is trust between family members, a broad-based one can take you through the whole journey with less ordeal. As others have noted, it works well to set up online accounts, but that will not allow the bank/financial institution to talk to you unless other permission forms are in place. A power of attorney is a good starting point and then you can move forward, institution by institution, with filling out their specific paperwork. It is very helpful to have this in place before there is an emergency. Strokes, accidents and deteriorating cognition can create very dicey legalities if families are not pro-active. In my experience, once this paper is complete, things go smoothly and banks will notify you if they change their procedures or have different requirements. If you don’t routinely do business with them, there is no harm in checking in periodically to be sure all is in order on their end. </p>

<p>Good luck with all this. At the earlier end of this process, my mother was able to keep her bills, checkbooks, ledgers, etc. all together in a portable lightweight file. She added my name to her checks (can’t remember that process) and told me if she is ever out of commission, I could just pick this up and go forward. Very helpful if relative is well enough to maintain it.</p>

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<p>On the banks accounts, even if the bank asks for your SS#, the 1099 for interest should come to your Dad, so you would not have to report it on FAFSA as you are not the owner of the account, you are a signor and are authorized, FAFSA wants the owner.</p>

<p>This money stuff gets very problematic! I do think that with each friend who has vented to me over the past few years, who has prolonged the process and waited to confront the situation, not wanting to stir up Mom or Dad, in nearly every case, once the process began it generally went better than they thought and they all wished they had done it sooner. If you are going to have a bad time with the discussion, you might as well have it now, before they lose any more money/jewelry/etc.</p>

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<p>I was on my mother’s savings and checking accounts. She was listed first and her SSN was first. All 1099s were with her SSN, so I never paid taxes on them or had to claim them on FAFSA. </p>

<p>I also did as much as possible online…money transfers, brokerage transactions, etc. </p>

<p>My mother had no problem with me taking control of the finances, which I realize is not the case with everyone’s parents . She actually didn’t really want to deal with it all anymore (my father had died 16 years earlier, so she had been dealing with everything on her own for awhile).</p>

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<p>My MIL was resistant in giving anyone any information about her money. It took a while to find her accounts and many of them were tied up in things from some unusual annuity type product (which did not pay out an annuity) to CDs in various banks where she opened account years ago to get toasters and calculators and plaid blankets. (and I am not kidding here). The state had taken over some of her accounts as well. She didn’t want to pay the bills she owed, never mind anything else, so it took a while to get her set up and the only reason it happened was that her attorney pretty much insisted before he died that she do so, as she was clearly not doing what she was supposed to do. But I’ve kept everything as is, and just made copies of the POA filed with our county offices, and each of her banks and other accounts got a copy so that they know I am authorized to deal with the accounts. So my name isn’t on any of her stuff. I just pay her bills on line. She has a checking account,and checks too, so for her aide and anything else, I just write and sigh the check POA. If she owes us money, I do the same. The paper trail is very clear this way. </p>

<p>My husband insisted we go over every single transaction and statement with her until it but her into states of psychosis and cataplexy each time, and he had to come to the conclusion it wasn’t worth it. I simply refused, because the way she did things was unacceptable from the get go to me, and dealing with her on it was not something I was willing to do. It’s simple and straightforward what I am doing with easy paper trails, and she is documented as incompetent at this point. Once I had the POA, I just got the job done, and have the system set up so it is obvious what the payments are for.</p>

857

<p>Are we going to become just like our parents when we get to be their age? Scary thought.</p>

858

<p>^^ My husband and I laugh about this Aquamarinesea. It’s a very nervous laugh.</p>

859

<p>You know, Aquamarinesea, I would have said a loud, unqualified, “NO”, up until recently. Both DH and I are very different from our parents. My mother has absolutely no interest in any academics, culture, social functions, people and never did. She was in the war generation of a losing side, and is in many ways stereotypical of someone of that time. My MIL was a flight, spoiled debutante type that never had to lift a finger in her life until she had kids and then failed miserably at that as she did with school and anything else that required commitment. You could not get more different people than DH and me from our mothers.</p>

<p>But now that they are here and I see them close up, there are certain eccentricities that I see in myself that are in BOTH mothers. If it were just my mother, I could blame it on the genetic and would worry, but these two women are as different as can be in upbringing and culture and yet they have similarities and I have similarities to them. There are just certain things in human nature that are easy to fall into and it does not have to be heredity that dictates it. I say this when I see video footage of me that shows movement very similar to my mother, so similar that one wonders if that is not her. When my thoughts go somewhere that hers go that is very annoying to me. But then I remember that I can cherry pick similarities to my MIL that I have, that bug the heck out of me, because I’d like to think I’m better. Maybe not at her age, but it’s not due to the genetics.</p>

<p>So, I think some things are universal, or are in a universal pot so we can get those draws. Will I have dementia? My mother does not, but my MIL does, but there are members in my family who were if they were lucky enough to live that long as my line is not long lived My MIL’s is. But my mother has defied the odds and is older than my MIL despite smoking heavily for many years. Has COPD but not yet on oxygen. </p>

<p>On that other thread about planning for retirement, I 've mentioned my concerns for DH and me. We are sandwiched in between elderly mothers who need care right now, and still having a minor and one in college and a bunch still not on their feet who should be. And our younger generation doesn’t agree with us and do things the way we would, any more than the older. So it’s pretty clear that we, DH and I have to put things in place, or we will end up living in a way that we may not want. </p>

<p>My mother is as happy as she could be. She trusts me and is cared and loved here and now does not have to exert herself to get her needs met. I’m one of the few people who can cook for her and whose company she tolerates. I take her where she wants to go when she want to go, and that’'s all she wants. And she doesn’t want to go or do things often. Very easy care.</p>

<p>MIL was always miserable and so remains. I don’t know when the move should have been made but she should have been strong armed into some assisted living community. I think it would have given her some social life and companionship. Like my mother, she lived as a hermit, but let her big old house run down and fill up with junk, getting increasingly eccentric. Became so tight with the dollar that she would not hire anyone to do anything untill forced. Wouldn’t pay a bill until forced to do so. But what one allows as choice at age 50-60 starts becoming an issue when one hits the 70s, and the complaints started making their way to my DH. Still had she not fallen and then needed a series of joint replacements, she may have remained there a few more years. Though everyone in her neighborhood, community, town, considered her incompetent and deficient, she didn’t seem that different from always to me, in her environment. But as she went through her surgeries, it became very apparent that it was not just her peculiarities that were an issue. </p>

<p>So I guess a question to ask is when do our peculiarities and eccentricities become signs of dementia?</p>

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<p>Seeing what my parents eccentricities and problems are in advanced age, I’m hoping to learn from it. </p>

<p>Mom is still very sharp of mind, but her leg and arm muscles are so weak that she can no longer get out of a chair or on and off the toilet or even walk unassisted. Housework was her only exercise. She always turned her nose up at any physical exertion. She preferred to sit and read. </p>

<p>So I am hiking and playing tennis everyday, hoping to keep the thigh, back and core muscles strong.</p>

<p>Mom spends her time at 95 fussing over the little things. One would think she’d be spending her last days enjoying what she can, laughing, talking about things that matter. Instead she fusses over the food, over how her clothes are taken care of, where she misplaced a cheap Walmart watch. She’s unhappy being in a home and can’t try and make the best of it.</p>