<p>MomofJandL, I think there’s an old thread around here on the subject of having that first conversation (and all the subsequent conversations – unfortunately, all of this stuff is ongoing). Tonight after work, I’ll dig around and see if I can find it. </p>
<p>In an perfect world, what kind of evaluation do you want and what would the outcome be? A live-in aide? Move him/them to Independent Living? Assisted Living? Move him/them in with one of you kids?</p>
<p>I found this on the internet - just FYI for everybody.</p>
<p>"Beneficiary Designations Trump The Will
Your will or trust will not override what is named in the beneficiary designation on a life insurance policy, annuity, or retirement account (like an IRA or 401k plan). The beneficiary designation takes precedence, or as one poker player put it “the beneficiary designation trumps the will.
For this reason, it is important you update your beneficiary designations to reflect your current wishes.”</p>
<p>The way we addressed the evaluation with my Mom was to wait until she mentioned herself that she was forgetting things. Then we were able to say - why don’t we go to the doctor and see if there is a reason for that which can be addressed? That started a chain - general practitioner, brain MRI, blood work, neck ultrasound, neurologist, mental tests. This helped us know that we weren’t imagining things and helped with the long term care insurance. It has helped with having a third party tell her she can’t drive or live alone.
Having her, in a round about way, initiate everything made it much easier. Once the GP started things going, it all had a life of its own.</p>
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<p>I agree with LasMa. What is the purpose of the evaluation? I mentioned previous that I did not suggest an evaluation for my parents who I knew both had dementia. I didn’t see the purpose of it as they were both willing and planning on moving. Before my Dad referred himself the the neurologist, my brother and I had planned on both being there in Christmas and telling them we noticed a cognitive decline and it was time to move quickly before things got worse. I didn’t see any purpose to get the medical system involved. Perhaps because I am an FNP and know the medical system has little to offer to treat dementia? As it turns out it served to light the fire under my Dad for the move sooner than my brother and I could get together (we are on opposite coasts) with my parents and confront them.</p>
<p>It’s funny, but when mom was in the hospital, the docs told her she could not live alone and should not drive. Whenever we are anywhere in public with other people, she figures out a way to blurt out into the conversation that she could still live alone and drive but “they” took away her license! (no, it’s in your purse, mom.) She can BARELY WALK. I don’t know if it makes her feel better to lash out in public since I won’t make a scene by correcting her? At home I might call her on some of her stuff if she’s been repeating it enough that I can’t take it any more. Here, she talks often about selling her car and house. In public, we are bad for holding her hostage. Sigh…</p>
<p>psychmomma, maybe your mom is my mom’s clone? Last year, my mom told me she enjoys humiliating me. To think that I had assumed it was inadvertent!</p>
<p>The reason we had MIL evaluated (by a social worker, with the general assessment,) was that her everyday social skills were masking her decline. (She didn’t remember names, schedules, whether she had eaten-- but could be cheerful, start and hold conversations, claim she had eaten or wasn’t hungry, etc.) We were confused whether this was ok/just senior moments or some decline. Requested through the doc. We did not tell her she was being evaluated, just introduced it as an appointment. The social worker came to the home. MIL thought it was a social call. </p>
<p>My mother is also a hoarder.<br>
I’d like to rant, but will hold off and just ask this: at what point do you think our support with difficult elderly relatives (in my case, my mother- and not dementia) might be “enabling?” Have any of you had to draw a line, done it successfully?</p>
<p>Well psychmom and CCsite, my mom today told her visiting nurse I ‘did it to her’ (not driving). I really don’t mind taking the blame along with her internist. Every call involves yelling at me, how she gave birth to me, how I am treating her so badly, etc. I have politely told her that is not ‘to her’ it is to protect her and others. She is obsessed with driving- yet she drove very few times last year and the battery was dead and she had to call AAA each time to start the car. I asked her to concentrate on what she can do, not what she cannot do. She has transit, bus and taxi options as well as a pool of dwindling elderly friends and family who can driver her. I realize I am just talking to myself.</p>
<p>What is interesting is that about once a day at work I have to tell a patient they cannot drive. I get almost an identical response that my mother gives. ‘I am fine, I have had no accidents, I cannot believe you are telling me this, I have been driving all my life, etc.’ It is hard wired in their head and they actually never get it, but the family does. I used to think the males would take it harder but the women are just as bad if they live alone. However the family is frequently weak and gives in not to argue. Luckily the 90ish do somewhat respect what the doctors tells them and very begrudgingly follow it.</p>
<p>Lookingforward- In my case I do not think I am enabling (dementia) because it only gets worse not better. In my kids case I have enabled. I draw the line when my mother ask me to call her doctor and try to get him to do something when I realize she is trying to manipulate me and him. I guess saying ‘no’ to requests I think are unreasonable is a way I do draw the line. I think that sometimes you have to make clear what you will and will not do. For example, my mother just asked me to ‘go through a box of things’ for the millionth time in her hoard stuff only then to put them in the box (when i ask her to throw them out) and back in the living room if I do not take them. I say ‘nope not doing this, we are not going to do that again, because I hate doing it and I would rather go for a ride when I visit’ This is not to say she does not ask the same thing all over again in the next visit.</p>
<p>^ thanks, this lets me realize there are times when I do say no. I’ve tried to write out what it is she does- only to strongly suspect that, though she is functional with finances, very intellectually astute, etc, she’s got something else in play. Maybe it’s emotional or psychological, maybe it’s early dementia. It is hurtful. And, I think that she’s always been this way, it was just masked when she was more independent. (Not hidden, but differently endurable.)</p>
<p>She sees a doc who specializes in the elderly; there’s a social worker in the office. I think I will see if it’s possible to speak with her. That’s all I can muster to say, at this point. May need to rant, later. I am glad this thread is here. Best wishes to all.</p>
<p>MomofJandL, here’s an older thread which covers the “how to tell them” question on a number of issues. Different approaches work best in different families, so no one can tell you how to do it in yours. But here are how some of the CC parents have dealt with it.</p>
<p>Having been down this road on a number of issues, one of the big lessons I’ve learned is that it’s a process. Big life issues and changes aren’t going to be resolved in one or two conversations. The other important thing to keep in mind is that, unfortunately, sometimes when push comes to shove, we have to go against our parents’ wishes when they are unable to make good decisions for themselves. I guess that’s what parenting your parents is about.</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1092540-senior-citizens-downward-spiral-when-step.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1092540-senior-citizens-downward-spiral-when-step.html</a></p>
<p>LasMa
Thanks, this is very helpful to get us on a path to helping, instead of just fretting.</p>
<p>lookingforward, I have been accused of “enabling” by my DH who is trying to extract me from care of my Mom. Mostly he is right and I don’t even live in her town. He doesn’t think I should allow her to call me! I call her every day and if she manages to call me occasionally, I think it is OK. When she was in her house, I did a lot of reminding and watched her checkbook and truly I did enable her to stay in her house an extra year… but that did not have a good result because she lost/gave away a lot of money and then started driving without her license. When I look back, I shudder to think what might have happened… it could have been a LOT worse. And that is a chance I shouldn’t have taken. H was right. Bro was not there with me the Christmas I said we should stop this, he had to get there himself I guess. Mom was, still is, very good socially and he didn’t call every day. When you deal every day, it does hit home that things are not OK.</p>
<p>Now that she is in a safe place, he doesn’t call often either, but he knows how bad it is. He doesn’t know how much time I spend dealing with bills and crud she brought on. I can’t wait to get it resolved to just paying bills. That I can handle, selling off her and grandma’s keepsakes is taking f.o.r.e.v.e.r and throw in some crazy cousins that I don’t want to find out that grandma’s stuff is out is making me crazy, with an ulcer. Mom lived with Grandma for the last 5 years of Grandma’s Alzheimer life and inherited most of the estate and ALL the things in the house. Cousins didn’t think it was fair, but they weren’t there changing Grandma’s diaper and feeding her like a baby every single day either. Mom earned every teaspoon. But NOW… Mom isn’t getting them. I feel creepy selling them, but Mom needs the cash. I think of selling them to cousins, but am afraid to even go there for fear they will start lawsuits to get more. I can’t handle another law suit seriously!</p>
<p>Well! This was supposed to be about other people feeling like they are enabling and not all about me and my fears.
So enabling… yes, if there is a whiff of it, you are. But only you and your circumstances can say if that is a good or a bad thing. I think Mom was happier enabled in her house than she is in AL… but she almost starved to death or ate bad food. I took that chance, but still haven’t resolved if it was a good thing. The driving was NOT a good thing, that is for sure, so if there are car keys involved, turn the driver into DMV and take away the keys. Hard, but don’t let them run over some six year old kid!!! (happened near here just last week).</p>
<p>Thanks. Our dynamic is she needs a high level of approval and control (freedom of choice or free will or self-determination,) to float her boat. I’m all for helping. I was the primary family link for my grandmother and know things can get quirky. I also understand that things sometimes “balance” in their own ways, over time. Not with my mother. </p>
<p>Eg, we willingly work out doc appts, running errands, taking her to some place she needs to go, and other things, only to have my mother cancel nearly every meet at the last minute, when we’ve rearranged work schedules, who gets the car, other plans. (She won’t take the ride service- it costs $2 and “the ride isn’t comfortable.”) If we shop for groceries, most times she delays letting us deliver. There is so much more, but it is so often about how we owe her understanding, good families would understand, reasonable caring people understand, everyone else likes her and understands- and that, if anything, we are in arrears to her. (Not.) Lots of long winded reprimands. </p>
<p>The result is we get on deck, don’t get to bat. We accommodate. She doesn’t get to doc appts until it’s finally convenient for her, still hasn’t ordered her new glasses because she cancelled multiple times, hasn’t gotten that chair fixed because she “has to” see the guy’s shop, the quality of his work- but has cancelled a dozen times. It goes on. I’ve always done my best to turn a blind eye to the inconveniences, try to take the ethical and supportive path. But, the onus is so often on us to dance around her. This is what I think is enabling. I don’t mean to sound critical or resentful-- it’s that she’s got me numb, which bothers me. And the impact on my daughters. I’d like to break the pattern, but am torn between “it’s ok, she’s old, we can manage” and the impact.</p>
<p>I’m embarrassed to write all this- so many of us are dealing with this sort of thing, each with its own flavors. But, thanks for letting me vent.</p>
<p>Lookingforward , ick, no you are not enabling, you are being bullied. Call her on it, draw the line and stop it. Just for say … two weeks? You need someone like my H who fights against every phone call to her in your corner. Or like my bro who seems perfectly happy NOT to call her and talk to her much. </p>
<p>Your mom is a piece of work and not in a good way. You wouldn’t let your daughter have a friend that would treat her that way would you? Why would you let yourself go down that path? (well, yes, I know, but … )</p>
<p>At the very least, there is an etiquette site called ehell or something like that, where they say, if you are being walked on, grow a spine. And they give accolades for the titanium spine.
[Etiquette</a> Hell ? ?Your site has redeemed the web and my faith in humanity that there are some basic, fundamental rules to life and personal relationships- and that the poised will someday be victorious over the tacky heathens of the world!?](<a href=“http://www.etiquettehell.com/]Etiquette”>http://www.etiquettehell.com/)</p>
<p>Some of what your mom is doing SHOULD be covered with common decency.</p>
<p>You took my breath away, I gasped. A friend who does not know her used that same word. Bullying. I’ve got a mass of thinking to do, will look at that link. Thanks. </p>
<p>I’m no wimp. Far from perfect. But I guess we all get caught in trying to do the right thing. I need some outside support in clearing this and will pursue it. Wow. What drove it home was dealing with this, during another family crisis, a time when our plates should have been free of the crap. xx.</p>
<p>Yikes, lookingforward! She’s running your life, moment by moment. Quite the little power trip for someone who probably senses that she’s losing her powers.</p>
<p>I agree with eso – you gotta draw some boundaries and stick to them. NOT easy, we all know, but for your own sanity, you must. Think back twenty years to how you handled your toddlers: Give her choices, but a limited number. Tell her about consequences, and then follow through. Stand firm against tantrums.</p>
<p>So for example, “Mom, we can shop for your groceries on Tuesday or Saturday. Which day is better for you to receive the delivery?” “Tuesday.” “OK. Please make a point of being ready on Tuesday, because if we miss that delivery, we won’t be available again until next week.” On Tuesday when she tries to cancel at the last minute: “Unfortunately, as we told you, this is the only time we can make it. Would you prefer to get your groceries now? Or should we keep them until next week’s trip?” If she refuses to choose, or suggests something you haven’t previously offered: “I’m sorry we couldn’t work something out this time. We will try again next week.” Don’t let her draw you into discussions about WHY you can’t make it any other time. </p>
<p>As for your not being “understanding,” she’s found the magic button. All she has to do is utter the “U” word, and she’s got you! Of course, we want to be understanding of our parents and their limitations. But “understanding” isn’t the same thing as “doormat.” </p>
<p>She’s used to being able to manipulate you, and she’s not going to like it when you start drawing some lines, not one little bit. And she’s going to let you know; you have to be prepared for that. It’ll help if you talk out your strategy beforehand with your DH or siblings, and get their support. Even better if you can get your sibs to do the same thing.</p>
<p>So looking, I am in support of eso and las- but the word abusive came to my mind, instead of bully.
‘This is what I am willing to do.’ At first saying NO is hard to do but it gets easier. </p>
<p>I tell my self when I talk to my mom in my mind ‘You are very lucky to have a caring daughter’ when things get rough and she starts belittling and harassing me. Recently I just said it calmly outloud to her on the phone. I don’t think I meant to do it but I did. It pretty much stopped her in her tracks. She surprisingly answered ‘I know’ and stopped her rant. I have since used this to stop some of the rants and eventually try to change the topic.</p>
<p>I like that Rocky. I’ve thought that to myself at times too.</p>
<p>I’m afraid I may have come across as harsh in my last post. We do have to be firm with our parents sometimes, but always with kindness, and reminders that we love them.</p>
<p>BTW, lookingforward, last year I was feeling that same numbness and didn’t pay attention. I ended up in the ER with stress-related gastritis. Saying No is an important part of taking care of yourself with you’re dealing with a parent. :)</p>
<p>I don’t think any of you are harsh or judgmental- we’re all just going through forms of this and need to be able to say what we need to say. It helps. Thanks. And, for the good ideas.</p>
<p>Conservatorship for Mom final today. Cost about $4000 … so far.
One of the “rules” I didn’t know was that I am required to have a bank account that returns checks … NOBODY DOES THAT ANYMORE. The court wants to see the original checks written in order for the yearly report. I knew I had to do accounting , but seriously? ORIGINAL checks? give me a break.</p>
<p>I also have 90 days to inventory her stuff… I wonder how detailed that needs to be. Can I say 2 tons of clothes or do I have to count the 50 or 60 pairs of black pants she has stuffed in the closet? OMG.</p>