My sister’s in-laws are not doing well at all after they left their assisted living facility. The dad fell and was hospitalized for a few days. Now he’s back home. My BIL arranged for home health care and general caregiving. The mom has gone ballistic and doesn’t want ANYONE in the house. The dad is not taking his meds and has taken some of his wife’s instead. My sister tried to talk to her and calmly explain that it helps my BIL’s peace of mind to know his parents are being taken care of, but the mom got furious and hung up on her. It’s got to be dementia because this woman was the sweetest person in the past. Ugh. My BIL’s sister is not doing well at all and has gone silent. Now the parents aren’t even answering the phone when my BIL calls them. I told Sis they should contact the state of Indiana and see what can be done.
I don’t know about contacting the state. But this might be another situation where a sit down with an elder care lawyer might help. If the doctor or rehab had ordered the in-home care, would the mom still have refused it, or was it because her son had ordered it? I always used what I called the “third party principle.” Get a third party to do what is needed and keep myself out of the line of fire.
Is the spot at assisted living still open? Maybe if they are left alone for a few weeks they will agree to go back-?
I’ll suggest the lawyer to them.
I’m baffled as to why the doctor hasn’t been responsive in this case. It’s so clear they can’t take care of themselves.
They have been alone for a little while now. I really think they’re just not rational at this point.
@NJSue Hugs, this situation sucks. Do not be afraid to go nuclear on the grifter girlfriend. Call the cops and report a kidnapping. Even if your Dad has made this choice, having to explain it to someone official gets more eyes on her. My mom was in a similar situation and the “handyman” took her for so so much. Don’t wait. Even if your Dad hasn’t been declared incompetent (yet) he still can be checked on and really I doubt it will ruin your relationship. I thought it would ruin mine, but Mom was OK with talking to the court lady who was asking her if she wanted me to be in charge and if she was competent. The lady could see immediately that Mom had lost it, but Mom still signed off on guardianship. Plus the AL place would lock the handyman out even before I got the guardianship because he upset her. Try that if they are not on the road yet.
@MaineLonghorn You SIL is a saint and I am so sorry your family is in turmoil. What a mess.
Well I am somewhat relieved because I just got off the phone with Dad. He told me where they were (a Hampton Inn in a small town on I-40 west of Nashville) and what their plans are. They don’t have a fixed itinerary but he said they would be back in MN in time for him to go to some appointments he has. I did not confront him about not telling me about his trip. His girlfriend got on the the phone and started making all kinds of excuses, i.e. they had talked about this trip for a long time and it had to be when they both had no appointments, etc. etc. I did not explode and ask her what the hell she was thinking although that was my impulse. I also called AL to verify her claim that they prepared two weeks of his medications for him before he left, and they had.
I don’t think I can credibly characterize this as a kidnapping because he clearly went willingly. However, I am still going to call his doctor and see if I can get a cognitive assessment scheduled for him. I am also going to call his lawyer. I am still very concerned about his physical safety and will not rest easy until he is back in AL and not physically dependent on girlfriend.
I told him that I noticed that some cash was withdrawn on Friday; he confirmed the amount. I said I needed to know if he was planning on withdrawing money so that I could know it’s not fraud that has to be reported to the bank. So he knows I am watching (and she does too).
Sounds like you executed a smart conversation on your end. I’m so glad you at least heard back and got some ducks in a row for some of your concerns.
I imagine she may be also continuing to try to get him to marry her (if she is indeed after pension and SS).
I am sure you will have relief when he is back at AL and you can get MD scheduled appointment.
Also glad you were able to check facts, and things seemed OK. Some relief on that feedback/checking.
Have to continue to use your good judgement on this evolving situation with keeping your dad safe.
My mom was given a cognitive assessment and declared as just fine (by a doctor at the Mayo Clinic in FL). However, she most definitely was NOT just fine. The test was incredibly basic (you may have seen it … a blank clock, a few words to recall, counting backwards, etc) … it sure as heck didn’t pick up on the lack of executive function, the fact that she no longer read books or watched tv, the behavior changes. So if they say he’s just fine, you may have to write a list of everything that has been going on so that the doctor is forced to actually understand what’s happening.
I guess I should feel good that everyone knows my mom has lost it.
@NJSue, so glad that he is relatively well. When will he be back?
Upthread somewhere, someone mentioned about a detailed exam - maybe by neurologist, and other specific testing? Maybe whoever mentioned this can detail again what to ask for with testing.
I know with my mom, during a hospitalization, we requested the dementia testing (she had psych issues, bipolar), and not to the detail of specific form of dementia - but they confirmed she had dementia and they broke the news to her (better she heard it from them). Her psychiatrist had her on ‘memory medication’ for several years prior - I don’t remember the details of that all. But during that hospitalization it was very good time for mom to hear it from the experts after the testing.
We had my mom evaluated by a neurologist who specialized in working with geriatric patients and dementia/ALZ. He did a comprehensive evaluation. He sat us down and said mom had developed a lot of coping mechanisms to “fool people” but that she was severely cognitively impaired and couldn’t make decisions for herself, shouldn’t be driving, and that was time to invoke POA for health care and finances. She still seemed pretty good to us at the time so it was good for the family to hear too.
My mom’s testing was done because we encouraged my dad to get her checked out for dementia. He had it done during her work up for heart issues. Because he didn’t want to believe that she had dementia, he never pushed beyond that evaluation. I like this thread a lot, because people have experienced so much & have great insight. If I had this as a resource years ago when my mom was having issues, it would have been really helpful. I am glad to have it as we navigate my MIL’s issues now.
My mother’s doctor didn’t do anything about anything (including driving, heavy drinking, falls) but when I asked him to invoke the proxy (and P of A) due to dementia, he did it literally within minutes!
Are you POA on bank account? Can you cancel debit car or transfer money to another account and keep only minimum in his? Maybe this would limit loss
After I talked to him, he handed his phone to girlfriend who said they would be back “no later than” Sunday, July 9. He has three weeks of meds because, she said, “something might happen” and I might have to come get him (she said this, like he’s a piece of furniture). I thought, well, you might have both informed me that I was the backup plan before you pulled this little mystery trip stunt. He is hiding behind her because he knows I do not approve and would have objected strongly had I known. By not providing a detailed itinerary and return date, they are playing games and flexing. It’s so childish of them both.
I texted my sister in Germany and she does not want to schedule an assessment now because she thinks “we will lose him” if we push it. I see her point because he has become sneaky, lying, and defiant toward his mommy-daughters; even though I think he does love us, he resents us too. He finds it hard to accept help from us and for some reason finds it easy to go to the girlfriend. We didn’t even know they had been seeing each other since he moved to AL.
I have POA for him as an individual (as does my sister and his lawyer), but as I explained above, I am not on the checking account because it is a trust, not a personal account, and he is the sole trustee. He will not allow one of us to be a co-trustee (he would have to legally change the trust, or we would have to get him declared incompetent). We tried and the bank said no. What I can do is use online banking under the radar (the bank does not know and would stop us doing this if they did) and change the card PIN. His pension and SS go into this bank account and all his bills are out of it. I monitor the flows and initiate electronic payments. Once in a blue moon I have to write a paper check for him. I do his taxes with a preparer and I handle his medical expense reimbursements. I told him this morning that I noticed a cash withdrawal on Fri. and asked if he made it. He said yes and confirmed amount. I asked him to let me know when he withdrew money so that I would know that it’s not fraud. So he knows (and she knows) that I am monitoring. If I change the PIN on him now it will make him furious. I have to decide if it’s worth it. He’s clearly feeling controlled and pushed around, and he is acting out “like a 17-year-old kid” my husband said.
My sister is scheduled to visit him in the middle of July. I think she should take the debit card. We visit every 6 weeks and we can make sure that he has cash in his wallet (it is psychologically important for him to have cash even if he can’t see it–he is mostly blind, cannot read letters or numbers). He has about $300 in cash in his wallet at any given time. It is at risk of being stolen but he knows that and feels the need to have it. He is not amenable to reason on this point.
My 92 year old mother lives in a continuing care community. She’s in independent living but she has a 24 hour aide. For various reasons, we’ve requested several cognitive assessments in the last year. The facility (actually it was the speech/language pathologist) administered a BCAT (Brief Cognitive Assessment Tool). It tests areas like memory, executive function, attention, task management. The top score is 50 and anything below 30 indicates some form of cognitive impairment. On the last assessment, in April, mom scored 18/50 which correlates with severe cognitive impairment or moderate-severe dementia. She score 0 on executive functioning. Yet the woman still thinks she should drive and live on her own.
Yes, my mom got the brief cognitive assessment test several times and often got scores in the teens. She stayed pretty cheerful until the end and always was happy to be with her kids and grandkids. Fortunately she didn’t have anyone in her life that took her out of skilled nursing. She was happy to entrust driving and finances to others and never had any cash.
I’m sorry for folks who are struggling with this. I’m sure it’s maddening!
My dad kept day trading until he finally could no longer remember how to sign into the computer. He rarely made money and paid hefty commissions. When he moved from house to ccrc, we were finally able to get the terrible companies to stop sending him coins and all the junk he had been receiving and been billed to. It was a huge waste and drain. One of my brothers was able to cancel pretty much all the CCs but let him keep one.
Man, props to y’all dealing with parents who aren’t being reasonable.