<p>I would have married rich and famous, so D could have applied ED to her top choice and been automatically accepted, and all the pressure would be off. LOL.</p>
<p>xiggi..way to call 'em kiddo.</p>
<p>old...why all the thread baiting? The first thread wasn't enough negative reaction and guilty confession for you? </p>
<p>Look at the list of 2011 CC acceptances. The elites and Ivy schools are the MINORITY. By far. You have misjudged your audience here--and been zinged by a 21 year old student for being too old to get it.</p>
<p>Fair enough.</p>
<p>Lord knows I've just bumbled my way through this, with an un-directed un-decided BRWK who was waitlisted at Cornell today and is currently in his room laughing at something he's watching on a dvd.</p>
<p>He's our only, so I won't get to try again, but I feel really blessed right this minute for having him.</p>
<p>Paying3Tuitions- I agree completely agree with this statement. BRAVO!:
"The source of pressure IS the parents. Kids do NOT announce at age 12 out of the blue that they want an Ivy; they probably think it's an ice cream flavor. Kids don't buy name-college sweatshirts for themselves at age 18 months, either."</p>
<p>This forum & many parents on it make me feel like a under-achieving, slacker parent. We were the supporting cast only. Our 1st born is headed to college in June & he was the one who worked hard & set goals for himself. Seriously, many parents scare me because they are so immersed in what should be their child's high school experience/college search process. As if they're living vicariously through their kids.</p>
<p>old but wise- Legitimate thread indeed. After finding this forum, I realized how much in charge our son has been of his destiny & that makes me proud of him. He has come out of the process unscathed, thrilled with his acceptances, happy as can be with his destination & even enjoying Sr. year. What more can a mom ask?</p>
<p>Sorry, Old but "Wise" - nothing to "come clean" about. At least nothing that you are wanting to hear. Because so far things have worked out pretty well. About half way through high school D1 started expressing desires to go to MIT. We both (parents) got involved in the process. Once the PSAT and SAT scores started to roll in it began to look actually feasible. We discovered and learned a lot from CC, and helped her build a list of schools that had plenty of safeties and matches in addition to her dream schools.</p>
<p>As time drew nearer we did the big college tour, and after that both Harvard and Yale moved ahead of MIT on her wish list. These were her choices, not mine. But by preparing herself to qualify for MIT she had prepared herself to qualify for them as well.</p>
<p>The process wasn't perfect, but the results were excellent. She was accepted at many fine schools including Harvard, MIT, Stanford, UC Berkeley, Pomona College, Wellesley College, and all her safeties. She is currently a very happy junior at Harvard. She loves the place. So just what is there to confess in this case?</p>
<p>So this brings us to D2 who is still a sophomore in high school. But so far she has shown the same aptitude for academic high achievement that her big sister did. And she also likes some of the high-end schools. It changes about every two months, but currently her dream school is Stanford. The one thing she has made plain is that is that she does NOT want to go to Harvard, mostly I suspect because she doesn't like people to directly compare her to her sister and prefers instead to choose her own different path. Which is fine by me. I'm confident she will also do very well in college admissions whatever path she chooses.</p>
<p>So you tell me where I'm going wrong or what I've got to come clean on or apologize for. I'd say the results so far speak for themselves. Both of my daughters seem to be very happy, capable, and well-adjusted kids. They engage in a lot of activities and have lots of friends. I haven't seen any sign of depression or drug abuse. And the worst "eating disorder" we have is that D2 hates vegetables. And it's for this reason that I find your relentless Ivy = Evil agenda so tiresome and misguided. Because I know that there are many, many exceptions to all your dreary complaints. </p>
<p>I would be the first to agree that high-end schools are not a good fit for everyone. And kids and parents need to be realistic about where they have a shot and where they don't. And they need to build their college list from the bottom up. But that doesn't make the high-end schools bad. For some students they ARE a good fit. Some kids DO have a reasonable shot at getting in. Thus, I find your constant sweeping statements trying to denigrate the high-end schools to be both wrong and unneccessary. It's perfectly possible to steer kids in a direction that's both right and realistic for them without constantly trying to single-handedly take down the Ivy League.</p>
<p>I agree with blackeyedsusan. The whole process was nowhere near as bad as we expected. In fact the "what we expected" part was way overblown...</p>
<p>We definitely bought into the whole scare-mania about how impossible it is to get into certain schools. For example, Brown sounded interesting, but S. never even looked at it, because it seemed out of his league. Now, looking back, reading decisions threads, etc. MAYBE he could have had a shot. Who knows? But (a big "but") when I asked recenly if he regretted not applying there or other Ivies he said no. The school he's attending seemed like a great choice for him from the very beginning. He fell in love with it on two visits, applied ED and has no regrets. </p>
<p>My biggest regret is not learning more about financial planning years ago. We have saved faithfully for years, and put away a large amount for college, yet find that there are a number of things we could/should have done differently. We will keep these in mind for the younger three (that's the scary part).</p>
<p>
[quote]
PS mathmom, I am a very gullible, literal-minded person: did he really get into Harvard...?
[/quote]
Yes, he did, smack in the middle of typing that post.</p>
<p>Having been rejected from MIT and Caltech (his first two choices) and waitlisted at Harvey Mudd I really was wondering if we should have applied to more Ivy caliber schools. Why not Cornell? Or Princeton? Or Brown? But he had a good mix of techie schools and I knew his chances were better than average at Harvard because Harvard seems to like our high school and he's a double legacy (more really - grandfather attended as well.) I think things ultimately played out fairly well. He got rejected by four out of five reaches which are reaches for everyone. He got into his match. He got into his two safeties with nice merit money. Don't know yet about Stanford, but our school has a terrible track record there. He'll find out tomorrow.</p>
<p>
And sometimes it's not even a parent, it may be a sibling ;) or a family friend. Everybody needs somebody with a map.</p>
<p>My "come clean" story isn't typical of most CC'ers but it's still appropriate for this thread: When D was in high school she never thought about her the future. She was a B student but more interested in her friends, boys, and her social life than she was in college...or even high school for that matter. Nothing we said or did could get her enthused about it. So on my own I went online, filled out the CSU application (it's a simple fill-in-the-blank form) and sent it to a couple that I thought would be a good match for her. I knew she wouldn't want to stick around living at home after graduation and Senior year she realized she it too! So she visited the schools she had been accepted to and picked the one she liked best. She is now finishing up her 2nd year at Chico State (big surprise!), still choosing her social life over her academics, but maintaining a 3.0 GPA and almost half way to getting a degree. She's thanked me more than once for doing that for her.
With my son, now a HS sophomore, I'm prepared to do exactly the same thing if he doesn't step up to the plate when the time comes.</p>
<p>My mistakes: </p>
<ol>
<li><p>In 2003, when my son was choosing his high school, there were two small charter high schools starting up, A and B. He chose to attend A. A had problems from the start, getting worse every year. I kept swearing I was going to make him transfer to B, but I didn't for three years. Finally, even <em>HE</em> said he was going to ruin his chances for a good college if he didn't transfer, so he's spending his senior year at school B. A had no AP's, no EC's, very uneven teaching staff, bad management. At B, every student takes the same all AP load, all teachers have master's degrees from top tier schools and are incredible teachers. My mistake? I should have made him transfer at then end of freshman year! </p></li>
<li><p>Didn't help him schedule interviews for any schools. He interviewed with the one school he visited, and no others. </p></li>
<li><p>Missed the financial aid deadline for one of his top choice schools; it was in <em>January</em>. They tell me it will be okay, though. </p></li>
<li><p>Probably should have gotten him to study for SAT; his math score didn't really reflect the high level math coursework he'd been doing.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>We have successfully (in our view) completed the process for the first time with D1.</p>
<p>Things we did right: (i) the list of schools applied to (and her ultimate acceptance) was totally her choice, after discussion and input. D made good choices in that it contained a good mix, any one of which would have been just fine for her; (ii) the list was only 5; (iii) we did some on site visits/interviews in the fall of her top 2 at the time. Those visits UNSOLD her on both places; (iv) she did all the application work but we monitored the deadlines for her; (v) she is self motivated, so we never had to nag her to study for SAT or complete apps, but we kept the larger schedule in mind and made sure it didnt get too cluttered; (vi) D had a good story to tell (which makes it so much easier), so I think we did a good job of understanding, from day 1 of freshman year that "everything counts"; (vii) we were supportive but not invasive, and my wife and I didnt obsess too much (really, we didnt...); and (viii) no ED. I think an early reject or waitlist would have been very difficult emotionally.</p>
<p>Things we could have done better:(i) try as I might, I could not get her to apply to a top elite. And she didnt. (ii) Merit aid (we are a full pay family) is still a mystery to me. We could have done a better job of knowing the true story; (iii) we could have monitored the guidance counselor more closely, and she almost dropped the ball on a couple of deadlines.</p>
<p>In the end, D got to choose from 3 top-25 LAC's and Honors Program at State U (top 10 public), all excellent places. Another LAC is due in soon, but it doesnt matter now. D made her choice, and seems thrilled with it. We are as well. But what we are really thrilled with is D herself. She made intelligent choices throughout the process. It was really satisfying to watch that happen. Plus, irrespective of my "elite" comment above, the places she picked really reflected who she is and what she wants to acomplish.</p>
<p>Good luck to all.</p>
<p>OBW, sorry but from what I read on this forum, most parents seem to be interested in looking for reasonable matches and safeties. The kids are the ones who are seeking the prestige of the Ivies and other elite schools. That was certainly the case with my D.</p>
<p>I am also another parent who became more involved because the HS GCs were all but worthless. They did not know my D. They did not have much knowledge about colleges, except for being able to provide a selection of brochures from local colleges, and they required followup and were not very efficient in sending recommendations and grades as part of the application process.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I don't understand why you would question what I say.
[/quote]
I do. Your question is an interesting one ... and could lead to some very interesting discussions. That said your question was framed with a bias only asking about mistakes in one direction (too much) ... and, in my opinion, this bias is consistant with your other postings on CC.</p>
<p>Again ... a very interesting topic if framed neutrally. Looking back ...
* Where too involved or not involved enough? In what aspects of the process
* Did your child apply to too many schools or too few?
* Did your child shoot too high or not high enough?
* Etc</p>
<p>3togo: You are absolutely correct. I should have framed my op questions much differently instead of using an accusatory tone. My apologies. Sometimes my frustration gets the best of me.</p>
<p>From this point forward, using 3togos suggestions, can we continue this thread to make it something productive that future CC readers can benefit from? Again, my apologies, and thanks for the constructive criticism 3togo.</p>
<p>I am going to go out on a limb here and let my total honesty open me up for a beating. Being a parent completely submerged in the entire application process from beginning to end is a well kept, heavily guarded dirty little secret. I am not saying that all parents get very involved, or even need to. But, I am saying that I know plenty who become just as involved as I did but will never, ever admit it. The appl process is not what it used to be. It is a maze of firm deadlines, different requirements, and different procedures that this 45 year-old found almost overwhelming. I can’t imagine leaving a 17 year-old to his/her own devices. Did I help my daughter by creating folders for each college and attaching a cover sheet/check list complete with due dates, items required by the school, contact info? You bet. Did I remind her when to assemble the requests for counselor recommendations and attach for her a pre-addressed, stamped envelope insisting that her handwritten thank you note would be a nice touch? Absolutely. I also insisted she apply to at least one out of state (minds change drastically from November to May), and researched each school with her to arrive at the best essay topics, proofing the entire appl. before it went out. Do I have regrets? None. Out of 12 applications for solid schools with only 3 safeties, she received only one rejection and one waitlist eventually being accepted there as well. After never in a million years imaging she would ever want to leave California, she’s having the time of her life in Boston and getting wonderful grades. She is confident, self-sufficient, and self motivated today. But, a year and a half ago, she was right in line with the scientific data proving that, except for a window of about 3 months in utero, at age 18 she had fewer brain cells than she will ever have at any other point in her lifetime! I think it is absurd that we leave kids to make choices and decisions that will so significantly impact their life at a time when they are scientifically more dimwitted than they will ever be! My D’s best friend’s mother is a teacher who believes that kids need to find their own way, make their own path, blah, blah ... The poor kid was rejected from ever single campus but UC Irvine (a “safety”, and they waitlisted her!) If you have spent 17 years investing in and cultivating a close and trusting relationship with your child, managing this effort in the last months that they will ever live with you can totally work and not leave them smoking, anorexic, or climbing up a watchtower in army fatigues! I know I will be bombarded from parents whose kids did it all on their own and “they’ll be better adults for it”. I am glad that worked for you. I just think all those parents who did exactly what I did should quit doing a disservice to parents waffling on giving their kid some much needed help and come clean!!</p>
<p>calcaitsmom - that is one of the best posts I have ever read on this board. I'll admit to helping my kids in many of the same ways, but don't feel there's anything to "come clean" about. That kind of parental involvement is not in any way inappropriate.</p>
<p>The original post inferred that parents have major transgressions to confess, with resulting significant harm to their students. I read it as looking for parental self-flagellation, not "oops, we missed a deadline." :)</p>
<p>calcaitsmom</p>
<p>I did all the things you did and have enjoyed it immensely. Now I'm doing the "heavy lifting" on the last minute worrying too! I didn't see the point of my son having to do all the secretarial part on top of coursework and ECs, test taking and essay writing. His applications were truly his own work and a wonderful reflection of who he is as a person and student. I just provided logistical and tactical support. So far he's been accepted at 7 out of 7 he's heard from and again, I'll offer my support as he sifts through the acceptances and comes to his own decision. His GC was good and helpful, but could not possibly have put in the hours I have in this search. It's been a part-time job I've happily undertaken.</p>
<p>What the OP is talking about is parents who expect and pressure their kids to get into specific schools, usually "Ivies". Some parents certainly do this and it can have terrible consequences, including suicide. He's not criticizing the schools, but the parental and societal message that only these few schools are "good enough", when, in fact they are attainable for very few and, in fact, though they are excellent schools, they are not the best fit for every student.</p>
<p>The "mistakes" (maybe "oversights" is more applicable) I made with my S is not understanding early in the game what colleges would be looking for. I didn't make sure that he took 4 years of a foreign language; therefore he will be graduating with only 2, which hurts his chances to be accepted at selective schools. I also didn't encourage him to do extracurricular activities; he wanted to just hang out and play during the summer, and I didn't think anything of it. I didn't even think to have him study for the PSAT; if he had studied and had boosted his score by just a little bit, he might be a NMF. All these things are hindsight, and we go forward.</p>
<p>Whatever the intent of the original post, I’ll share some of our story, which I posted about a few years ago. Our older D was accepted at Dickinson College with a fairly generous merit aid package. It was one of eight acceptances. The decision came down to Dickinson or UMCP, our flagship state school which is 20 minutes away from our home. So I guess I’d say that one “mistake” was limiting the choices to two or three schools, based on the financial bottom line. A few other schools that D would have liked to consider, just didn’t offer enough aid for them to be affordable for our family. We had discussed this with D well in advance, and she understood it. In hindsight, she could have at least considered the University of Delaware, but it wouldn’t have made any difference in the end. D was torn about the decision, but didn’t have any particular “passion” or career path identified, so couldn’t use that as a basis for choosing. We, the parents, sort of switched course late in the game and pushed for Dickinson. I had read some propaganda written by the president of the college and fell for it. My wife had gone to UMCP and not had a very good experience there. We argued that this (the scholarship package) was an opportunity that D would not get again; that she could try Dickinson and transfer elsewhere if didn’t like it; but that she couldn’t go the other way, because she would not have the scholarship. So she agreed to go to Dickinson, and hated it. Transferred to UMCP after the first semister. Now, D’s responsibility in all this was that she was not as honest with herself and us about her negative feelings about Dickinson (before she went), OR about some factors that were the real reason that she was miserable there. But it all came out pretty well in the end, and I can say that D has not been negatively effected by the change. She’s doing fine at UMCP and is pursuing a major that she feels will be rewarding and will give her career opportunities. </p>
<p>In the case of D2 (now a senior in HS), we were much more hands-off. We know that she is self-motivated, and she seemed to pick her college course of action fairly early: She didn’t want the stress and turmoil that she saw her sister go through, she wanted to stay close to home, so she only applied to UMCP (and was accepted). But then she came to a realization (or several). I won’t go into all of that now, but we have agreed that she will take a year off. More is posted about this over on the Arts Major forum. I feel that we are NOT making a mistake by supporting her in doing this, by providing some structure for her during the year, and by being open-minded about who she is and what she wants out of life.</p>
<p>"...anyone ... pushed for YOUR college choices, focused too much on the "elite" colleges, put too much pressure on your adolescent, etc."</p>
<p>One of my most vivid memories from college concerns OP's concerns. One day as we waited a few minutes for the professor to appear (rare event) a few of the fellows got to talking about why they chose Flagship State U. One guy kept saying that he was rejected from MIT, really wanted MIT, couldn't understand why he'd been rejected by MIT, etc. When another responded by saying that we were all studying at a top state U and had nothing to be ashamed about, the MIT reject said "You don't understand - my parents are math professors. I HAD to be good at this!" It was the quality of his voice that got to me - he sounded bad, and obviously felt (or was made to feel) like a failure, while I, sitting a few seats away in the same classroom at the same U, felt like I'd won the grand prize to be attending there.</p>
<p>No one had any expectations for me, except perhaps the local CC. My counselor wouldn't even show me the Flagship State U catalogue - I had to resort to bypassing him to ask his secretary to see it.</p>
<p>Somewhere between these two extreme approaches is my goal with my kid.</p>