<p>No significant mistakes here either. Two very different children, two very different searches, two success stories. As Xiggi points out, the biggest mistake I see other parents make is assuming the system will take care of their children.</p>
<p>old but wise: There is a big difference between the parents and the kids on CC. The kids seem much more obsessed with prestige and ranking than the parents. Most parents who post here are level-headed and urge kids to consider fit and finances. I discovered pretty quickly that the parents forum was the place to hang out, and I only make occasional forays into the others. </p>
<p>Is there anything I regret? I probably nagged my daughter a bit more than I should have. I know I didn't push prestige on her -- I made it very clear to her that I would love her no matter what college she went to. I know there were times when I became a little too invested in the process, and once or twice I probably did say "we" instead of "she." Many people would say that all the time I spend here on CC is the best evidence that I was too involved, but I usually passed along the advice to her and let her decide what to do with it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
or climbing up a watchtower in army fatigues!
[/quote]
LOL!! I can see a SNL skit being worked up about college admissions anxiety. </p>
<p>I appreciate threads like this. Newcomers to the college admissions world (like me) appreciate everyone's honesty. We'll be sure to make our own bonehead mistakes, but it's good to be forewarned.</p>
<p>Mathmon--congrats to Mathson!!!!</p>
<p>Its the parents NOT on CC that concern me. I've heard families truly plan that their child's dream of Stanford (for ex.) will work out, when s/he's barely 700's and EC's are typical. They have just no idea how many amazing kids are applying to college each year. Because the whole family is not realistic, they don't explore matches well.</p>
<p>Financial aid was big mistake in our household. Grandparents put money into S's name rather than a college plan or somthing protected.</p>
<p>
[quote]
3togo: You are absolutely correct. I should have framed my op questions much differently instead of using an accusatory tone. My apologies. Sometimes my frustration gets the best of me.</p>
<p>From this point forward, using 3togos suggestions, can we continue this thread to make it something productive that future CC readers can benefit from? Again, my apologies, and thanks for the constructive criticism 3togo.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, since apologies are offered, allowed me to add my very sincere apologies to Old but Wise. I'll admit that I reacted to the contents of the original post and objected to a quest for mistakes and the, in my eyes, blanket assessment of what CC is. I'll also admit that I considered the "in my 30 years of experience" a poor preamble to a fair discussion. </p>
<p>If the intent is to start with a blank slate and focus on constructive criticisms, I'd love to point out OBW to the number of threads that have had themes such "Tips from seniors to Juniors" or "If we had to do it again" or "What did we learn?" Those threads have surfaced with regularity on this board and on the older board. At the end of each "season" many parents and students decided to share their experience, and some have done it for 4 or 5 years.</p>
<p>Fwiw, I believe that the advice one can glean on this board is not commonly available in the schools. It is easy to agree that guidance counselors come in all flavors, from the amazing to the less amazing, from the truly dedicated to the "parked-here-before-retirement." I also believe that the divide between counselors and families is much wider than counselors might think. And, from my limited experience, I believe that this stems from a deeply ingrained attitude that parental involvement at a school is mostly a nuisance. Yes, nobody doubts that there are helicopter parents from hell, but for every one of those "demons" there are tens or hundreds of parents who have nothing but good intentions, and would consider the best interest of their children as a true partnership with the school. Only if the school would consider them deserving to be a partner in ... education.</p>
<p>Without going into a parallel discussion, I truly believe that the schools of 2027 will be much different from today's, and extremely different from the ones in 1977. Even without the absolutely necessary changes in school choice and funding mechanisms, schools will need to recognize that Al Gore's information highway is ... working. While I wasn't around in 1977, I believe that the sources of information at the disposal of students were indeed limited to his or her counselors, and thus quite limited in scope and variance. Today, we have hundreds of directories, rankings, and how-to-books. Today, it is necessary to prepare for college well before starting HS, and parents have realized that the information sources have moved. </p>
<p>This said, just as WebMD is not a substitute for your family doctor, we need REAL professionals. But just as doctors continue to learn from diagnosing new illnesses and listening to their patients, counselors need to listen to the students and parents who ARE going or have gone through the motions. And REALLY listen by trying to get the truth out by asking for candid evaluations of their contributions to the process. </p>
<p>My first conclusion is that I don't really know anything about OBW's precise world, and the second one being that OBW does not really know much about the universe of CC. Both sides could learn a lot from each other if we give it a chance.</p>
<p>calcaitsmom - thanks for your candor. I, too, was deeply involved because he'd be mowing lawns for a living next fall if I had not been ! I'm still pushing and shoving on deadlines for an eye exam and a physical because he received an ROTC scholarship which launched another round of urgent adherence to deadlines. </p>
<p>I agree completely with your view of the maze of deadlines, checklists, non-responsive school administrative people (swamped under hundreds of transcript requests, etc.) Any parents who are new to the process need to assume that it will (a) take 3 times longer than you thought to get everything done, and (b) your attention to detail must be very precise. I also agree that it is the very rare 17-18 yearold who has the maturity and attention to detail to get through the process successfully. They really need alot of assistance. </p>
<p>Another note - it's pretty clear from these postings that the vast majority of parents and students are from the higher socioeconomic strata. (Notice there are lots of comments about "elite" schools - few or none about attending the middle-of-the-road state school with average SATs of 1050. Are there any of you out there ? ) </p>
<p>Just an editorial comment, perhaps born of some fatigue reading all of the these postings over the months - I'm a bit shocked by some of the Ivy-or-Perish pressure in some of the posts. There is precious little talk about which school is right for the kid - just lots of angst about which school is "right" (usually meaning the highest ranked, most prestigious, etc.)</p>
<p>It's not for me to saw that there is a correct way to view these things, but there is little room for disappointment in some of these families out there. And that's just not the way the world works. I'm more concerned about my kids' reaction to adversity than worrying about when and where they will encounter it - because they all will. For many kids, not getting into that "dream" elite college is the first "failure" of their young lives, even though it's not a failure in any true sense.</p>
<p>I'll confess to being too interested in the whole process and enjoying learning about the different options available. My D thinks I like to live vicariously through her, but I'm really just happy to see that in the end she did well in high school and has some very good, but very different choices for college.</p>
<p>I think she would say that I pushed her to take courses that I felt would help her have more choices for college, but I also think she is glad she took them. D also had no idea about what kind of college she wanted, so I made a list of a variety of schools for her to choose from to apply to. </p>
<p>I'm trying to help with getting info about the schools she's accepted to and make arrangements for her to visit, but the final decision of where to go rests solely with her and I am confident it will be a good one. </p>
<p>Now, on to D2 who is a junior this year! Ooooh, and then I get to start researching fellowships and graduate schools!!!!</p>
<p>Congratulations to Mathmom’s son for the Harvard acceptance!</p>
<p>Go to posts #231 and 232 in College Search thread "Denied by Colleges...Use This Thread as a Support System." Perhaps you'll understand what I was talking about when I started this thread. </p>
<p>It's very interesting to see how this thread evolved. It became one that ended up with parents touting what a wonderful job they did, offering congratulations on a Harvard acceptance, and attacking guidance counselors. </p>
<p>For those of you who have touted what a great job you've done, there are plenty who have made mistakes. Obviously, they would not be the ones to post here. Also, it's interesting to see a lot of "counselor bashing" on this thread. Anyone out there who actually thinks their counselor did a great job???</p>
<p>The topic starter invited me to post on this thread, so here I am.</p>
<p>What I wrote in "Denied by colleges? use this thread as a support system":
"I'm not sad about my rejections, because I truly would've picked the other school no matter what. My parents, however, is making this sooo much harder for me by comparing me with every single person they meet/talk to. They didnt eat dinner with me last night, and now I'm getting the looks of disappointment and the constant <em>sighs</em> from them.
My friends have families who celebrated for their admissions no matter what.
I don't know, I just wish my parents were more supportive.
In my heart, I knew I will be happy and the next four years will be awesome. but if my parents cannot support me (emotionally), I don't know if the previous sentence would held true anymore..."</p>
<p>By no means I am saying that all the parents here are.. not good (sorry, english isnt my first language, and i occasionally have trouble finding the right words to say). For starters, I admire all the parents who are on this board. I have urged my parents numerous times to browse through this, but they never bothered (I know they have good reasons though, as their english is not particular strong). </p>
<p>It's just that, this time of the year is really hard for us (or at least, for me), peer pressure is already enough to deal with ("WHAT? SHE didnt get into where??), it'd be a disaster if we cannot seek comfort in our own family. Perhaps talk to us a little bit more, and be more supportive on whatever we choose to do... afterall, it's not your turn anymore.</p>
<p>I hope this wasnt offensive in anyway. :)</p>
<p>oneday-- You deserve much better treatment from your parents!!! Any disappointment they feel is THEIR problem, please try to get through this time without making it yours as well. This must be very difficult for you. </p>
<p>You have a good attitutude, and I don't doubt that your next four years will indeed be awesome. They should learn from their child! Good luck :)</p>
<p>"Anyone out there who actually thinks their counselor did a great job???"</p>
<p>No bashing here. YES! YES! The counselor <actually the="" entire="" college="" counseling="" dept.=""> at our sons school is outstanding. I cannot heap enough praise on each person connected to the dept. From the scheduler, to the admin who keeps all the paperwork straight on every child, to the counselors, they are truly invested in the kids. And open day and night to moms and dads as well. Hugs, solid advice, praise, shoulders to cry on, happy dances, reminders, timetables, searches, etc....... We are so blessed!</actually></p>
<p>My son's counseling dept is amazing. Of course, that is part of what you pay for at a prep boarding school. My son was not easy to package, and they did an outstanding job. They really believed in my kid, but were realistic. He got incredible acceptances.</p>
<p>The average SAT at Mathson's school is 1050 or so. It's a big school with a big range of kids. </p>
<p>My son's counselor has to take care of close to 300 kids. All things considered I think she did an excellent job. She knew my son, she knew his strengths and he says she wrote a very nice letter. She didn't miss any deadlines. Her list of suggested schools was perfectly reasonable, though we added more techie schools to it.</p>
<p>As for you, OBW--
I don't see an inordinate amount of GC-bashing here. In cases where the parents have been critical, perhaps they are justified in their opinions.</p>
<p>If it makes you happy, I will tell you that we honestly CANNOT say enough good things about our older son's GC. In some ways he is probably a typically overworked public school counselor, but someone who truly seems to love his work and the kids, and they in turn are crazy about him. He has a terrific knowledge of colleges and universities, and is full of information and advice when warranted, though he definitely encourages kids to take the lead in choosing their colleges. He is an advocate for the college-bound students, just as he is for the less competitive ones who may be struggling just to finish HS. He is truly one of the best things about our HS, and we were fortunate to have him as older S's counselor. I wish younger S. could be so fortunate.
I will also say, though, that S. did a LOT of research and homework on his own, and did a good job of it. Did I help? Sure. We did the trips, read up on schools, etc, and I am not the least bit ashamed of my involvement. We learned a lot, and enjoyed the time we spent together through the whole process.</p>
<p>OBW-- Just re-read your OP and following comments. You seem particularly focused on gathering 'the bad' from parents, to the point that reports of satisfaction on their part seems to bug you.</p>
<p>Just curious-- what are you gathering information for?</p>
<p>And P.S.-- our counselor has gray hair. White, actually!</p>
<p>My Dad and I were talking about this. I'm an only child so everything is a first and only experience for the family. He acknowledged that he and Mom worried and tried to make sure that my options stayed open from middle school on.He is sad that too much of high school seems to be about getting into college and he knows that he and Mom bought into that. The one thing he really regrets is that, when I hit rough spots, he thought about them first in terms of what they might do to my chances for a good college and he wishes he had concentrated more on how I might be feeling instead.</p>
<p>He also said that he thought that they were too worried and pessimistic and that I was a much easier admit than he thought (he apologized for seeming not to have believed in me , but I always knew they were trying to keep me from getting hurt and that was why they so carefully helped me with good foundation schools first off). I think his thoughts are colored by the fact that I got into my dream school early decision. I believe he was right to be very cautious since I was extremely strong in some ways but I know exactly where my weaknesses are and that the outcome depended upon what was most important to the admission committee. What he did in maintaining active interest in and enthusiasm over my "safeties" and the other schools besides my dream school took a heap of pressure off and ensured that I would have had lots of good paths if the December news was bad.</p>
<p>I am so lucky to have my parents and their help. If they hovered some and nagged a bit, I needed it because I had so much on my plate. The scheduling details and research demands were overwhelming, plus other adults were very slow about coming through with the necessary papers and I was naive about a lot of things, including the need to sell myself (it made me feel uncomfortable). My parents helped me in all these areas.</p>
<p>Sorry if this isn't too coherent. I had to stay up late sending a lot of pictures for a class project. I was CCing while the files uploaded and sent. I'm really tired.</p>
<p>I really don't know why posters on the Parents' Forum are taken to account for what is posted on College Search. I have never ever looked at College Search much less posted on it, and I don't know if other PF posters have, either. In any case, if OBW is unhappy with the tenor of messages on the CS board, that is where he should be posting his counter-message.My take on the PF is that the recurring themes are: "love thy safety"; "build your list from the bottom up"; have a good list of reaches, matches and safeties"; "go for fit, don't go for prestige"; "check out Colleges that Change Lives." Anything wrong with these messages?</p>
<p>I am on record (multiple times) for praising my kids' GCs. We took the first GC's recommendations for colleges and had very good results. For S2, we did not need recommendations from the GC--the list of suitable colleges being prettyevident and limited--but S worked closely with him to find appropriate courses in and out of high school. We love the GCs our Ss have had, and I have said so.</p>
<p>That said, many parents and students have reported that their GCs had unrealistic ideas of what colleges would be matches for applicants. It's not only students who said "You're in at HYPSM;" lots of GCs did, too. They had not realized that competition was fierce and had not helped their students develop more realistic lists of colleges. As well, there are many GCs who are overwhelmed by the number of students they must serve. Some high schools have only 2 GCs for several students. And finally, there are incompetent GCs (look up zoosermom's complaints about her D's "geezer GC); CC posters gave those parents and students lots of advice on how to cope with inadequate GCs.</p>
<p>Is it that surprising that people who don't feel they're getting adequate information from their g.c.s are the ones who find a forum like this? I feel like we (as a group of parents) are being taken to task for bad behavior, asked to come clean, and when we don't fulfill the OPs preconceived notions of how this thread is supposed to go, we're bad again. It is eerily like being a bad child in school, but I thought that kind of 'training' died out in the 19th century. </p>
<p>Here's an experience from true life (my own): with #1, we were given bad information from our g.c., who topped it off by not meeting deadlines or following through on what she told us she would do. I learned that I needed to jump in to get the job done. We were all pleased with the outcome (don't know how g.c. felt about it - was probably in shock). </p>
<p>I just had a meeting with g.c. for #2. Came home and told DH "we can quit right now. This GC knows what she's doing." I can't tell you what a relief that is. Of course I'll stay informed and aware of testing requirements, deadlines, etc. and help to keep our share of the project moving along. </p>
<p>As for kids who become mentally ill by unrealistic parental expectations during the college search - I doubt the problem began with the college search. </p>
<p>The OP has hit a nerve with me - (s)he's a scold of the 'old school' variety and I'm done with being taken to the woodshed. It's 2007.</p>
<p>No question.....there are many of you who have done a wonderful job with assisting your adolescent with the college search. It very likely that the vast majority of posters on this thread fall into that category.</p>
<p>But, do you have any doubt that there are MANY CC-viewing parents out there who never post on these threads who have put unnecessary pressure on their adolescent (perhaps for many years) in the "quest for an Ivy."</p>
<p>As far as the college-selection and admission processes are concerned, there are many, many parents who are pushing for THEIR college choices, wanting an Ivy to satisfy THEIR egos (sounds good at work and a cocktail parties), and, in the process, are causing their children to fall victim to eating disorders, perfectionism, depression, low self-esteem, etc. Deny it all you want....I saw it first hand for 30 years. </p>
<p>Again, is it the majority of parents? Absolutely not. Is it the majority of posters on the CC Parents Forum? Absolutely not. Are there many, many parents out there hurting their children satisfy their own egos? WITHOUT QUESTION!!!</p>
<p>Having been a college counselor for 30 years, I have seen way too many cases. Multiply that by the number of high schools across the country, and the list of "victims" is enormous.</p>
<p>Yes, OldWise one, there are parents like that. There are also parents who completely neglect their kids, could care less about their education and do nothing to help them achieve success in life. There are substance-abusing parents, physically abusive parents and kids who live on the street.<br>
We live in a competitive and pressure-packed society. I hate many things about it. Yes, there are evil parents who live through their kids and want something to talk about at cocktail parties. Frankly, I do better at cocktail parties talking about my son's less proud moments.</p>