Parents: "Come Clean...Let Others Learn From Your Mistakes

<p>
[quote]
All you have to do is look at the depressed student, the student with anxiey attacks, the anorexic or bulemic student, the perfectionistic student, or the student who feels that he can no longer communicate with his parents because they push too hard.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Again, allow me to restate the question that was sidestepped:</p>

<p>Speaking about experience, could I ask you how many students attending your high school applied and were accepted at an Ivy League school in the past 5 or 10 years? I assume that, based on your stated experience, the district you worked must have been over-populated by the type of parents who exhibited that destructive behavior. Right?</p>

<p>Since you have often repeated the extent of your experience, it is only fair to ask about your direct experience with all those issues you decry. Or should we rush to the library to check out Alexandra Robbins's book, "The Overachievers: The Secret Lives of Driven Kids"?</p>

<br>


<br>

<p>Amen. In our large suburban high school parental under-involvement is a much bigger problem than parental over-involvement. Every year our school graduates about 600 kids. Going into the final year most senior classes consist of over 700 kids, but over a hundred drop out during their senior year - many during the final two weeks of the school year. Why? Because they aren't going to graduate anyway - don't have enough credits or the required courses or their grades are in the toilet.</p>

<p>Of the 600 who do graduate only about 20% enroll in a four year college. Most just go to work at low-end jobs and/or start taking courses at the local community college. Of those that go to community college a only small minority end up eventually transferring to a four year school.</p>

<p>Of the ~120 who do go to a four year college, the majority go to Cal States and to a lesser extent UCs. The GC's definition of Big Success is getting a kid into a UC - any UC. From talking to the kids over the years and looking where they apply, I'd say that only about the top 10 even <em>think</em> of applying to Stanford, Caltech, or the Ivys. And I don't mean the top 10 percent; I mean the top 10 kids. And the ones who actually do apply are almost always one of the top 5 kids. </p>

<p>So at our school in a given year there are only about 5 kids who might be in the position of hoping to get into an Ivy and thus at risk of suffering the cruel trauma of getting rejected by one. It's also at this high end where you might find over-involved parents. Getting a kid into these schools is usually a team effort requring a lot of support from parents. There might also be a few disappointed parents among the UC-bound kids who hoped that Junior would go to Berkeley or UCLA but has had to settle for Irvine or Santa Barbara.</p>

<p>So in a given year we can count on one hand the number of kids who might have their hearts broken by the evil Ivy League, and there might be another ten or so who are burdened with pushy or disappointed parents.</p>

<p>And this is worthy of a reform crusade? I'm not saying it's not a problem, but it seems like there are a lot bigger problems here. What about the >100 kids who drop out right at the end of their high school career? What about the hundreds more who graduate but with no direction and very meager prospects and parents unable or unwilling to provide much help? If you really want to make a real difference figure out a way to help those kids and get them on a track to success. They need help a lot more than do the handful of kids at the top of the class who are shooting for the stars.</p>

<p>calcaitsmom
I Agree with you and commend your involvement in the most critical period of your childs life. I have a friend who took a casual approach to his kids College applications and ultimately panicked when his kid starting receiving rejections left & right from what was considered safeties as well as reaches. He had to tap a contact on the board of a College in NY. He always lambasted me as being too involved and ridiculed my research in helping my D form a list of appropriate Universities she would fit well in. It turns my stomach to see parents allow their kids to carry the heavy load of College admissions and then get panic stricken when the rejections come in from their kids arbitrary choices.</p>

<p>I know of two bulimic seniors/anorexic seniors. They attend a competitive public high school and had high parental expectations. However, they suffered from the opposite problem of over-involvement. Both sets of parents worked demanding, time consuming jobs and had little time for family time, let alone parent-teacher conferences, assistance with college searches, attendance of their daughters' sports events, etc. The triggering event for the eating disorders was divorce! The parents didn't have time for their own relationships! The guidance counselors at this school complain of under-involvement of parents, even though the school is located in an affluent area of the state.</p>

<p>yorkyfan: I like what you said in your post. Divorce HUGELY affects students and I agree that students who feel ignored by their parents are definitely at risk.</p>

<p>When you said that you know of two anorexic/bulemic students whose problems were a result of their parents' divorce, I don't doubt what you say.
But, how many anorexic, bulemic, depressed, anxious students etc. are you completely UNAWARE of. Trust me, you'd be surprised. You can't tell who they are just by looking at them!</p>

<p>Many students who turned to me for help were ones where virtually NO ONE else knew of their problems. In fact, most of these kids, to outsiders, seemed to really "have their act together." Sadly, in many cases I dealt with, students would never share their problems with their parents because their parents WERE the problem. Some straight-A students felt so pressured by their parents that they did not want their parents to see their report card if they got one B+ and all A's. Others would be too embarrassed to show their parents their SAT scores, even if the scores were outstanding. Some would apply only to colleges that their parent's approved of. These are the issues I'm talking about.</p>

<p>Again, the cases I mentioned above certainly reflect a very small percentage of all high school students. And, the overwhelming majority of students don't feel pressured by their parents. But, even one such case is one too many.</p>

<p>I am amused by those in this thread who try to deflect attention from the issues I'm trying to address, by saying that the bigger issue is parental underinvolvement. Everyone knows there's parental underinvolvement. But that's not the topic of this thread.</p>

<p>I don't know why posters try to downplay, deny or sidetrack the points I try to make (not referring to you, yorkyfan). Perhaps what I'm saying hits too close to home for some, I don't know.</p>

<p>Or, it's foreign to us.</p>

<p>Myself? I live in a town with average SATs around 900. The vast majority of kids here go to the local CC or one of the local state schools. If they go to college at all. The majority of students here have no clue of what other alternatives might be available to them. Or what they can do to give themselves some choices.</p>

<p>That's not downplaying. That's reality where I live. I can't comment on the kind of hothouse environment you worked in, though I have to wonder--30 years there? Why not move to a place where the kids lacked sufficient guidance? Or do those kind of places not pay enough?</p>

<p>
[quote]
I am amused by those in this thread who try to deflect attention from the issues I'm trying to address,

[/quote]
</p>

<p>How about those who continue to deflect attention from the issue and questions about directly relevant experience?</p>

<p>Care to answer the questions about the performance of your district with HIGHLY competitive schools?</p>

<p>And as to the "cause" of bulimia and anorexia? I'm not willing to chock it up to just parental college pressure issues. There is a lot of research on eating disorders and there are many components. It looks as if genetics play a strong factor. Tell us what you know about eating disorders "old but wise" person. Cite me some research.. 'cause I still ain't convinced.</p>

<p>garland: A great response and one that made me take a step back and think.
Sometimes I forget that all high schools are not the same, such as the one you mentioned. You are absolutely correct. Thanks for reminding me that I shouldn't be assuming that everyone can relate to the kinds of schools I'm referring to. </p>

<p>In my humble opinion, the high schools like yours may be much "healthier" than the ones that send large numbers of students to "elite" colleges. I, for one, would rather see my own children attend a high school like yours any day.</p>

<p>Schools like yours probably have students and parents who are more content with the simple (and most important) things in life, and less caught up with prestige and "keeping up with the Joneses." </p>

<p>Schools like yours may not have "hotshot" college advisors, but they may be better in assisting your students in many other aspects of day-to-day life.</p>

<p>Just because your school may not send its students to fancy colleges, don't think its inferior to any other high school-especially the elite private high schools. Don't be surprised if it just might be producing HAPPIER people!</p>

<p>anxiousmom: Hope this helps. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.helpguide.org/mental/anorexia_signs_symptoms_causes_treatment.htm#Anorexia_causes_risk_factors%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.helpguide.org/mental/anorexia_signs_symptoms_causes_treatment.htm#Anorexia_causes_risk_factors&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Yes. I examined the link.

[quote]
A constellation of risk factors seem to cause anorexia. Sociocultural factors have an especially strong influence. Our culture rewards thinness, and societal approval can be so important that a person will starve to match that cultural ideal.</p>

<p>Social / cultural causes of anorexia
A culture that equates thinness with attractiveness and success pushes people to try to meet that ideal. The media present the ideal woman as ultrathin, and women respond by emulating that vision. However, eating disorders have been around for centuries, so the cultural ideal of thinness is not the only contributing factor to anorexia.</p>

<p>Psychological and emotional causes of anorexia
An individual’s inner feelings, personality characteristics, and personal history can contribute to anorexia. For example:</p>

<p>The following personality traits are associated with anorexia: perfectionism, obsessiveness, approval-seeking, low self-esteem, withdrawal, irritability, and black-or-white (all-or-nothing) thinking.
Major events in a person’s life history such as critical transitions or emotional upsets can contribute to anorexia. Relational or early life trauma (sometimes called developmental trauma) affects the brain, which in turn can impact both biology and psychology. Symptoms of trauma can include low self-esteem and obsessive, compulsive eating disorders like anorexia. Physical or sexual abuse can trigger anorexia.
Interpersonal, or relationship, problems can trigger an eating disorder such as anorexia.
Other conditions such as depression, anxiety, and ADHD may contribute to anorexia.
According to mental health experts, the feelings during adolescence of being overwhelmed and powerless can bring about a desire to maintain control in some realm of life, such as control of body weight. Being in total control of what enters the mouth can give an adolescent a feeling of powerfulness. Thus, the period of adolescence may be when anorexia first arises.
Biological causes of anorexia
Studies of the families of people with anorexia suggest that a predisposition to anorexia may be genetically based.

[/quote]
I don't see a lot in here about parental college pressures causing eating disorders, or cancer for that matter.</p>

<p>The exchange about anorexia hits a nerve. A European friend of mine just had his daughter hospitalized for anorexia. He's afraid her internal organs may have been damaged (long story about why she was not admitted earlier). Her age? 15. College is a guarantee--if she surives.</p>

<p>marite - My thoughts are with you and your friend. My niece was also hospitalized for anorexia when she was 15. She spent five weeks in the hospital (a facility specializing in anorexia) and celebrated her 16th birthday there. She is now a sophomore in college, is in good health and looks great, is doing well both academically and personally, and seems very happy. I hope that your friend's daughter's treatment is as successful as my niece's.</p>

<p>Oh, that is sad, marite. He must be so frightened for her health.</p>

<p>It is a scary disorder but to put the blame on the parental pressures of the college process? Nothing to do with the overt sexualization of pre-pubescent girls and boys? Nothing to do with the overbearing nature of the American consumer society and intrusive media? Hmmmm.</p>

<p>99% of my son's high school classmates will attend the state schools that are not on the CC radar. He's one of two going to a private university. 10% are taking a Gap Year in Europe before matriculating. </p>

<p>Only 70% of my older son's classmates went on to university. Those that did currently attend state schools that are not on the CC radar.</p>

<p>The rush to judgement is part of the shameful aspect of hyper-competitive schools like the one the OP 'guides'. </p>

<p>Know us before you judge us, OP.</p>

<p>Growing up, my sister's friend died of complications of anorexia when she was just a teenager in the early 70's. She had struggled with it for years. This was a girl from a seemingly normal family-- siblings who loved her, she had not been overweight, and probably didn't face many of the image-related pressures that girls today do. No one had any idea what started it all.</p>

<p>
[quote]
However, eating disorders have been around for centuries, so the cultural ideal of thinness is not the only contributing factor to anorexia.

[/quote]
It's been around for a long time. I had a high school friend with anorexia who committed suicide 30 years ago, and my sister had a very close friend who survived anorexia (and went on to become a nurse). I guess I just had to take issue with this whole aspect of the OP's post. :(</p>

<p>
[quote]
The rush to judgement is part of the shameful aspect of hyper-competitive schools like the one the OP 'guides'.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, we know that OP talks --or wants to talk-- about hyper-competitive schools and their parents. I don't believe for one second he "guided" at one. Not for a second!</p>

<p>There is a lot that is not known about the causes anorexia nervosa. But whatever the causes they certainly extend well beyond modern college admissions stress or even the more commonly cited desire to conform to modern notions of fashion and body shape. The phenomenon of unhappy young women who refuse to eat was well known to doctors in the 19th century.</p>

<p>"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."</p>

<p>I still maintain that OBW is writing (or attempting to write) a book or has another personal motive. If OBW really is a 30 year guidance veteran, he'd know that solicited posts on an Internet board wouldn't cure future overinvolved/overanxious parents.</p>

<p>I agree I'm a Uk students, currently doing my ASs(US junior). In our school, our careers advisors give fake deadlines for UCAS application forms every year, because they know that the sooner we apply the better chance we have- even then of course there are still student who manage to leave it till the real deadline. Fake deadlines work- USE THEM</p>