<p>The value of a primary residence is not included in the EFC for FAFSA - but it IS included in Profile calculations. However, schools use Profile in their own way. Some schools count it, others cap it, others may not count it … it depends.</p>
<p>One rarely-mentioned possibility (depending on your situation) might be to have your oldest child take a gap year in order to create more overlap with younger children.</p>
<p>I think it is very important to understand that it is extremely unlikely that you will receive any need based aid at the schools you mention. You wisely state that it is a choice you will have to make whether or not to pay the price you will be required to pay. Recognizing the reality of the situation is important as you move forward with the college search. As a financial aid officer, nothing in your situation strikes me as unusual - meaning that I don’t see that any adjustments would be made. However, one never knows. </p>
<p>Value of the primary residence is not in the FM. It is included in the IM on financial aid calculators, but again … different schools count it differently. IM EFC’s are only very rough estimates. </p>
<p>As for the Penn post-er … it is possible he did not include the brother in college on his initial application for aid. It is also possible that the aid office considered the two homes a necessity for some reason & made adjustments accordingly. That is why I say “you never know.” You can certainly try talking to them. Just know that it is highly unlikely that adjustments will be made.</p>
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<p>Short answer…without extenuating circumstances…the answer to your question is NO.</p>
<p>But I will add…congratulations on planning ahead so well for your kiddo’s college education. Yes, it’s financially exhaustive, but it sounds like it is doable for you. We did the same, and were very grateful that we were in the financial position to help our kids with college. Would we have liked some money…well of course, and both kids did get merit aid awards. BUT we were very thankful that we were in the position to be able to fund their college educations. We DID require both to take the Stafford loans in their name.</p>
<p>Also, keep in mind that the $62K plus costs include personal expense items that are not billed to you by the college…including personal expenses, travel, books. MUCH can be saved in this category by being sensible in purchasing. Used texts purchased online…limited “discretionary spending”, and travel in the least expensive fashion.</p>
<p>To directly answer your question, no, schools do not use need based aid to get the kids they want. Some are known to make packages more attractive–less in loans and more in grants–when they want an athlete badly and there is demonstrated need. But if you calculated correctly and your EFC is over $60K, it is highly unlikely you would see a cent without truly unusual expenses related to an illness or similar.</p>
<p>We were also a full pay but in far less income level. We had debt free, countable assets, and UGMA assets based on previous years’ value, but not current marketable value. </p>
<p>We did not complain because we felt very lucky in not have to worry ‘greatly’ to fund college. I do admit that I was at one time petrified in 2003-04 when investments were 30% of needed funding.</p>
<p>Sometimes if there are extenuating circumstances, or some unusual financial situation that can be interpreted differently, a recalculation coming up with a different number can result. That is why it is useful to apply to similar schools and compare their packages. My neighbor got a favorable package from Colgate a few years ago whereas BC, Columbia, CMU and Lafayette did not give any money at all. It was not the FAFSA EFC that was the issue, but the way each college calculated the institutional need. Though CMU and Lafayette did cough up some additional funds, BC and Columbia did not despite looking at the Colgate numbers. Child is currently at Columbia paying full freight.I believe Colgate came up with about $5K in need grants, so it was not a huge difference.</p>
<p>Just another thought. I know college costs a lot, but there are some savings that you have from NOT having kid in house eating,using shampoo, buying clothes, etc. that you might like to look at. The COA figures include all these things. So, even with high EFC, you can figure savings of $2500 from not having kid at home - even more if you paid for private school tuition, car insurance or extensive extracurriculars, plus kid works summer to make $2000+ contribution (paid directly to you since you don’t qualify for financial aid), and works 10 hours week during school year to pay for his/her own personal expenses. (So, total savings/contribution of $4500 or more to you.) Pick a school like Rice with slightly lower cost: $43,287 - hope for a school merit scholarship or outside scholarship or even NM scholarship to lower that amount. You may find college surprisingly affordable! 
(Lots of parents think their kid needs a car at college; usually not so. We don’t have to pay ANY car insurance for our kid who is away at college, since he does not have vehicle. He is covered in full when he is home visiting, also for no charge. That’s worth about an extra $2000, right there! :))</p>
<p><a href=“Lots%20of%20parents%20think%20their%20kid%20needs%20a%20car%20at%20college;%20usually%20not%20so.%20We%20don’t%20have%20to%20pay%20ANY%20car%20insurance%20for%20our%20kid%20who%20is%20away%20at%20college,%20since%20he%20does%20not%20have%20vehicle.%20He%20is%20covered%20in%20full%20when%20he%20is%20home%20visiting,%20also%20for%20no%20charge.%20That’s%20worth%20about%20an%20extra%20$2000,%20right%20there!”>quote</a>
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<p>I’ve got to agree wholeheartedly with that, and I attend a rural school that most would describe as ‘in the middle of nowhere’. Most of my friends have cars that I can borrow if I need to use one, and even so, I don’t find very many reasons to need one.</p>
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<p>This can be a good strategy, but usually only applicable to top schools outside the East Coast and California, which are generally thought of as the ‘most desirable’ locations by most on CC. The OP mentions UPenn, and being from the Northeast, I would expect that he is considering mainly Ivies and such schools in the area. You won’t find a top school in the Northeast for significantly under 50K these days.</p>
<p>If the OP is indeed looking outside the northeast, there are a few top schools that have a few thousand knocked off the sticker price compared to Ivies/etc but is it really worth it between 45K and 50K not to go to the top choice school?</p>
<p>Hey … I have to pay insurance for D even when she doesn’t have her car with her. Our State Farm agent told us we have to carry her on one of the cars (let us use the one w/the lowest premium). Off topic, I know — but am I the only one?</p>
<p>No, my brother pays car insurance at college, even though he doesn’t drive.
I think it’s because we have 4 cars, so each car needs a driver, or some such nonsense.</p>
<p>Princeton offers need based aid similar to the new package at Harvard, but they offer it for anyone making up to $200K…Harvard caps it at $180K. Check out this website:
[Princeton</a> University | Princeton Financial Aid Estimator](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/admission/financialaid/estimator/]Princeton”>http://www.princeton.edu/admission/financialaid/estimator/)</p>
<p>Some colleges will consider things like paying private tuition for siblings. Some are more generous about excluding home equity. Some want to know what kind of cars you own. With a $60K EFC, you will be eligible for financial aid from Penn type school when you have another child in college.</p>
<p>I believe I am what you call - the OP.</p>
<p>Yes we are on the east coast and we are only considering east coast schools that are within 4-5 driving distance of home. </p>
<p>Collectively you all have convinced me that there won’t be any need-based aid for us, and merit aid is our only chance of lightening our personal financial load. </p>
<p>It was a FinAid 101 lesson for me - thank you all for your patience. </p>
<p>On our list of schools are some which do give merit aid, but the one we are passionate about (UPenn) does not.</p>
<p>I’ve been crunching numbers on and off all day, reading your posts, trying to see where the money will come from. My Excel spreadsheet is staring at me, especially the cell that shows that $4626 per month will be needed. I can only laugh at this point, and use cliches like - "where there is a will, there is a way! "</p>
<p>kelsmom - I’d check with other State Farm insurance agents as some carriers allow you NOT to carry your ‘away at school’ child on your policy if you can prove it with yearly paper work. Call around to a few agents, some insurance agents aren’t the most scrupulous (from my experience). Sorry if I offend any insurance agents with that comment! </p>
<p>Have a good night everyone. Steve</p>
<p>Please don’t get passionate about one school (UPenn). There are many schools at which your student can get a great education. The way of the “dream school” leads to perdition!</p>
<p>UPenn and other Ivies are extremely difficult to get into; acceptance rates are very low, making applying at these schools a crapshoot. Most of the students who are NOT accepted to these schools are top students, too.</p>
<p>Have your student find one or more schools that 1.) he is likely – based on admission percentages and state – to get into; 2.) you can afford; 3.) he would love to attend. The collective wisdom on these boards says that these schools are the MOST IMPORTANT schools to have on your list.</p>
<p>Dream schools are easy to find; it’s the others, the solid citizens of upper education, that are harder to identify.</p>
<p>There are tons of wonderful colleges within a 4-5 hour drive of most places in the northeast. Included in those are some that would likely welcome a student who is competitive for the Ivies (UPenn or the like) and offer merit aid as well.</p>
<p>I will echo others. It’s not particularly helpful to have a “dream school” or extreme passion about only one school. It makes for a very difficult time if the student does not get accepted at that school. Better to have a number of “dream schools” to which the student would be very happy to matriculate. </p>
<p>As an FYI…our DD applied to three schools (her top three choices) that many people would have called safety schools for her. She LOVED all three and would gladly have attended any of the three. She was accepted to all three which made the month of April a bit tiring…but it was better than NOT loving any school or not getting accepted to ONE dream spot and having to just “settle” on a second choice.</p>
<p>I would suggest writing down the characteristics of UPenn and look for other schools that have similar traits. </p>
<p>Just FYI…our kids didn’t qualify for need based aid…but they both got merit aid where for undergrad (and DS for grad) which did lighten our financial load. The costs at their schools hovered around $50K per year.</p>
<p>This process made me think of the stages of grief so I Googled them to see how close the fit was:</p>
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<p>Pretty darn close only the bargaining is with the aid office!</p>
<p>Reading here I’ve seen lots of parents looking for a way to make it work. Some do but many decide they have other kids, retirement and don’t want to give up a huge part of current lifestyle. They go through many emotions and often say things about their kids deserving school X because of all of their hard work. </p>
<p>They run the numbers and start to add in the extras–parent weeekends, unpaid internships and associated costs, study abroad extras, kid wants to visit new best friend from Asia. We sent number 3 to private college this year, and trust me, none of them have just cost us the COA in any year!</p>
<p>So take a hard look at what the musts are. I’m a Penn alum and I love the school, but there are many great schools. And does it have to be that close to home? Your kids are more likely to get generous merit aid at schools where they provide geographical diversity.</p>
<p>If your kid is one Penn would drool over, he may get merit aid at Duke, Vandy or another school many see as equally good. And depending on his career goals, less expensive schools may make more sense to be able to help with grad school.</p>
<p>So take your time and work through the stages. Many have come to view colleges differently after doing so. Is a dream school really worth all of the sacrifice and can you do it for all your kids and still be whole?</p>
<p>We paid full freight for S1, and hoped to do so with all of our kids. Just can’t do it. When we looked at colleges last year with our third one, we knew that we would have to borrow, scrimp, and use savings, as would our son in order for him to go to some of the higher cost colleges. Even then, we knew that $40K was really the max for us as a family. There are a number of private colleges where the cost is well over $50K. </p>
<p>We focused on those schools with lower sticker prices and those that were likely to give merit money. We did end up with a nice group of colleges, and our son did not feel it was a problem at all to be considering cost in the search. </p>
<p>In the end, he chose a college that was slightly under the top price range in sticker price, that gave him a $10K merit award, worked 15 hours a week at school on campus, got a $2500 outside award, worked hard during the summer to bump up earnings, took a Stafford loan. We did raid some of our savings, went on an austerity regiment at home so that we could pay out of income as well, and borrowed. </p>
<p>Son is ahead of schedule in terms of paying next year’s costs. He is working this summer, worked during vacations and some during the school year, so has enough that he will not have to take loans this year.</p>