Parents dilemma - Laptops for Physics Major Freshman?

Parents Forum
41

Agree in some cases, but there are often follow up comments by either the reviewer or the audience. And any item can break or be a lemon off the production line. Just saying.

My point is really that anecdotes don’t predict, unless you get a slew of them. One loves X and another gripes. Despite supposedly “common belief” that Macs endure, my kid’s broke after 3 months. Repairable problem and, fortunately, during break, but she was out it for ten days.

42

@lookingforward

Couple of issues with “professional reviewers” from CNET and other sites:

  1. Many computer review magazines have become less critical and go less into depth partially because their magazines rely on ad revenue from OEMs and review models. No experienced computer techie/enthusiast I know rely on them as a serious source to base one's purchasing decision off of. At the most, they're good for getting the basic specs and first impressions of usability...but not much more than that.
  2. The very fact they are reviewing newly released models, have a short period of time to evaluate the computer to meet publishing deadlines, and most aren't IT professionals who service computers on a regular basis means they aren't the best authority on determining reliability and build quality....especially over the long term.

It’s like relying on car reviewers from commercialized car magazines* to determine whether a particular brand/model of car is reliable…especially over the long term. This is one area where asking a car mechanic or in the case of computers…IT personnel who services computers with issues on a regular basis…such as yours truly would be a much better source of information than a journalist reviewer.

  • None of the friends who are knowledgable about cars...especially those who have/are qualified to work as mechanics under the hood look to car magazine reviewers to evaluate the reliability/build quality of a car. They'd use their own experience using/working on such cars or use their network of fellow mechanic/those possessing equivalent depth of knowledge/experience for such information.

Assuming those older dell laptops are also from the corporate line, they are a far better bet than buying a consumer grade notebook…even a brand new one.

However, if they are more than a couple of years old, they may need to be replaced sooner due to increasing hardware resource requirements of newer editions of software required for some classes/majors…especially those related to multimedia processing or involving heavy computational requirements (3D modeling, autocad, etc).

43

I know this, cobrat. Of course, one has to “consider the source.” That includes not necessarily trusting any one person to be authoritative or know more than his own experience. I cannot imagine personally buying a 2k-plus laptop, but I know where and when they’re needed.

When looking to replace my car, my repair place could comment on the cars that came in and were easy to fix. Blank stares when I asked about, you guessed it, models they see infrequently. Point: that’s not substantive input.

44

There’s a major difference between an occasional lemon which could occur with any model/line of notebook and a pattern of defects/issues across a given line immediately upon release and/or a few years afterwards. Patterns which xperienced IT professionals who have years of experience servicing such machines would be in a great position to observe over time.

One reason I advise against buying budget/consumer-line notebooks from bigbox stores is because they are much more likely to have the latter issues based on my observation as a user and as an IT professional servicing those machines for nearly 2 decades.

And it’s less justifiable nowadays considering the greater levels of corner cutting on those lower-end models AND the fact prices on the corporate-line notebooks have come down substantially compared to when I bought my first corporate line with an employee discount back in the late '90s.

45

Nope…@cobrat. It would have been a cheap Dell Inspiron

46

Here are some issues clients/I’ve observed with Inspirons or other budget consumer-line machines of that era and moreso now:

  1. Poor design and workmanship. This ranged from flimsy external cases which flexed so much the motherboards inside would bend to the point of breaking solder joints/printed circuits to poorly soldered powerjacks causing powerarcs in a client's 2008 model Toshiba Satellite(As opposed to the Tecra corporate line). Seeing the level of poor workmanship on those models make me wonder what's the point of putting out/buying such models...that is until I consider most such models are geared towards those with little/no knowledge of computers or those who don't have an issue replacing machines every 2 years or less because they're regarded as disposable items almost akin to tissues.
  2. Poorly designed cooling systems because of corner cutting(i.e. using desktop processors in a notebook which Dell did to their Inspiron line) which resulted in overheating issues.
  3. Lower specifications in areas of processor, RAM, and hard drive space which meant the machine would become too slow/obsolete in a shorter period of time as newer software with higher system requirements arrive on the market.. In the case of STEM or multimedia processing related fields, that could occur in as little as 1-2 years as they are closer to the high end users....certainly higher than those who use their computers for office applications and light internet browsing*.

I’m glad to see a few schools like MIT seem to be realizing this by recommending Latitudes from Dell’s corporate line rather than the lower-end Inspirons and Vostros.

  • This level of user is not only common among home consumers, but most corporate office workers who aren't working in specialized areas requiring greater utilization of computing resources.
47
  • I agree with all of the above. I've had a Toshiba Satellite and a Dell Vostro, and the build quality just isn't there. Something was always breaking -- and I'm very gentle with my laptops. My husband has a Latitude, and that thing is dragged everywhere, thumped on (he's heavy-handed with his typing) and runs CAD programs with no problems, ever.
  • I've had a Lenovo Thinkpad for about 6 months now and I've been pleased enough that I ended up also buying them for my daughters to bring to college this fall. They got i7s with 8 GB, 1TB, etc, etc for about $600 if I recall correctly. Watch for sales on the website and pounce.
  • Carbonite has a fatal flaw -- speed. I learned to my dismay that their rate of auto-backup is about 1GB/day, so large files never get backed up. (This is NOT due to speed on my end, it's definitely them, confirmed by them) Their algorithm automatically does the smallest files like word and excel first, but your pst file -- namely your Outlook file, which is frequently larger than 1GB -- will never get backed up if you update it more than daily (as in you check your email daily). Look into this carefully if you're considering Carbonite. I've been happy with Crashplan for several years, although they're definitely not as user-friendly at first.
  • You don't need to spend $2000, but anything less than an i5 is asking for frustration.

And to anyone who expects to control / micromanage what their kid does at college, as the Dread Pirate Roberts said, “get used to disappointment.”

48

I think that the reason CrashPlan is “faster” than Carbonite is also the reason they can do versioning: they back up changed blocks, which for large files built up over a long time is a small percentage of the file. For example, I update Quicken 5 times per week, but CrashPlan only stores the updated data blocks. So, if I discover that I did something wrong at the beginning of the week, I can go back to the file as it existed then. It takes a bit longer to reconstruct the file, but if it’s important, I have the time.

49

I didn’t think they were selling any machines with processors slower than i5s until a friend asked me for my input regarding a low-end Inspiron a bigbox store was blowing out for less than $200 ~a year ago, proceeded to ignore my input to forgo that “bargain”, and now proceeds to complain every chance he gets at how slow it is and the fact it was not upgradable…even though I appraised him of those very factors BEFORE he proceeded to ignore my input and bought that crappy notebook. Arghh!! *Headdesk

  • RAM is locked in at 4 GB on that inspiron which is barely adequate for office/light internet users these days. Especially if they're running 64-bit operating systems which is what anyone who is running a machine newer than say...from 2006 or if we're talking netbooks...2007-8ish. 4 GB RAM was great 5-10 years ago...but I wouldn't recommend anything less than 8 if buying new unless you don't mind needing to upgrade the RAM or getting a new machine altogether within a few years.
50

Just bought a 14" Asus, i7 with NVIDIA graphics for gaming liberal arts D. Wanted something relatively light that would last awhile and let her do some Steam gaming. I expect it will last her the four years unless she drops it in the Lake or something (bought the extended warranty/protection plan–definitely was worth it for S12’s Lenovo.) Hadn’t really thought about theft. Will encourage her to decorate it in a really dopey distinctive way (she will like that.)

51

@cobrat How would you rate the quality of the Dell XPS line to the Latitude?

52

It’s on par with the Latitude as it’s targeted towards the higher end corporate and to a limited extent…the lower end of the gamer market*.

Both are much better bets than the Inspiron/Vostro lines.

Keep a lookout for coupons and discounts on top of what you can get as a student or college/K-12 employee/parent to get them at lower prices.

  • If you are a hardcore computer gamer and must play the latest and greatest games, a custom desktop** with parts specifically chosen for such gamers is a far better bet and bang for your computing dollar than the $3-4000+ "gaming laptop" without the worries about expense, greater likelihood of rapid obsolescence, overheating with associated maintenance/repair headaches, etc. Even a gaming laptop introduces too many compromises at too high of a pricetag to be worth it IMO and those of most hardcore computer gamers I've known.

** This is one area where it’s better to go custom/homebuilt*** than to turn to OEMs like Dell, HP, etc.

*** Assuming you’re comfortable putting together your own desktop from parts.

53

How does every parent know if their kid endured any grief?

54

Just FYI…that OLD Inspiron was just retired in this family a couple of years ago. It was probably 10 years old.

55

Who cares if the kid endures grief, really? Their peers are ignorant if they think it makes a difference these days which OS they use.

56

Dont most kids use Macs. It seems like a safe bet

57

@collegedad13

We were 50/50 in this household.

The music major used a Mac. The engineering major used a Dell.

We have both platforms in our house.

58

@thumper1

Just out of curiosity, what specific model was that Inspiron?

Not every student is a fan of the Mac operating system or have the financial resources to pick one up…especially when new.

Disclosure: I use and service both PCs and Macs and enjoy experiencing what each operating system has to offer…and I don’t just mean Windows and Mac OS…

59

I could relate anecdotes that counter any of the testimonials here. It is important that the student likes the computer, doesn’t face a steep learning curve along with the college adjustment and it fits the finances. If there were one overwhelming best choice schools would require it. There are pros and cons to any OS- Apple is NOT always the best, even if a majority likes it.

As some others have stated- check with the school. If it matters the department will state a preference.

60

Be sure to check with the school and the department. If all of the students has one type, it will be better to not be the odd kid out.

Sometimes the official answer is that anything will work, but in practice, almost all students have one type.