Parents Don't Agree

<p>@ClassicRockerDad The hope inside of me died again. Should I apply to these colleges undecided instead of for physics ?</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>According to Occidental’s 2012-13 CDS, it fully met need for 301 of 302 students determined to have need. On average, it met 100% of determined need for students who were awarded any need-based aid. Whether what they “determined” is what you would determine is another question.</p>

<p>The percentages for OOS public universities typically are far lower. For example, in 2011-12, Alabama fully met the need of 477 out of 2343 students determined to have need. On average, it met 57% of need for students who were awarded any need-based aid. Even with a full tuition merit scholarship, if only half of your other expenses are covered by n-b aid, you could be left with a gap of several thousand dollars (plus “self help”, if any, included in your package). I don’t know, maybe this does not happen with the top merit recipients.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/16230251-post11.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/16230251-post11.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>

</p>

<p>I didn’t mean to kill your hope at all. I think that you’re in great shape. I think you that should apply for engineering rather than arts and science. Being female, arts and science is more competitive and engineering is less competitive. Colleges really want to admit more female engineers. 700+ on Math SAT II is currency. It deems you capable. </p>

<p>Even if you end up studying Physics, it’s probably good to start out in an engineering program and see if you like it. It’s easy to switch from engineering to physics, not the other way. </p>

<p>There are not a lot of private schools that have aero/astro. Apply aero/astro. You need private schools to offer you financial aid if you want to go out of state. The four that I mentioned have graduate programs in aero/astro and thus have the critical mass that I would want, and aren’t terribly out of reach for you. Cornell is probably the most desirable one of those four, especially to your parents. It’s not that far away, and it’s an Ivy. </p>

<p>Colleges who do ED programs are often more lenient with ED applicants than RD applicants. Add that all up, and I thought that you had a pretty decent chance at Cornell, even enough to be a match (~50%) if you were ED. </p>

<p>However, Cornell is extremely competitive. While 1/3 women were accepted for engineering, 2/3 weren’t. For Cornell, having two out of three grades (freshman and junior) in math in the C range is probably going to weight you down some. Your standardized tests are excellent though, especially your SAT IIs and those do go a long way to demonstrating that you are capable in math, so I wouldn’t rule it out. I just think it’s maybe 30% now rather than 50% if you do ED. Still worth doing. </p>

<p>I still think you’re a shoo in at RPI. While it’s probably 29% female, it’s a decent sized school, and I think you’ll find plenty of friends.</p>

<p>The problem with ED, though, is that the OP then has no opportunity to compare FA packages. They have no way of knowing if their cost of attendance at RPI, for example, might have been several thousand dollars lower than Cornell. Since this poster has no burning desire for Cornell herself, then she should probably apply in the RD pool (or EA if offered) at several colleges instead so she can compare FA offers.</p>

<p>Bama’s COA is highly padded to include the priciest single room dorms so that people can borrow to pay for them if they want. </p>

<p>Bama does say that it gives preferential pkgs to higher stats students in addition to their merit awards. Obviously, it doesn’t want a low EFC, high stats kid to be gapped so much that they can’t attend. However, “meeting need” (according to COA) isn’t necessary since a student could choose a standard double dorm (which is the norm at many schools!) and “save” about $4k per year off the COA. I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect ANY school to meet the COA if that means the student is grant-funded for a private bedroom…lol. </p>

<p>If this eng’g student is a 0 EFC student and applies to Bama, she’d get full tuition, 2500 from eng’g, and likely some SEOG, full Pell, some Work Study, some Perkins, and Stafford loans. It’s not unreasonable to expect some kind of student summer earnings contribution (maybe 2000?) That would be enough to pay for tuition, standard double room, board, books, fees, personal expenses, and travel.</p>

<p>Looks like Occidental has improved its aid pkgs. Good for them. The student can keep that one on her list unless she wants eng’g (don’t think it has eng’g, but I could be wrong). </p>

<p>Average % need met can be a strange data point. Some schools don’t pad their COAs much…heck, some put only a couple hundred for tranportation or a tiny bit for personal expenses! The lower the COA, the easier it is to “meet need”. And, we all know that students with little need, can easily have their need met 100% with a Stafford loan…nothing from the school. Plus, the data only includes those students who enrolled. it doesn’t bother to include those with lousy aid pkgs who didn’t enroll.</p>

<p>First of all, you can do a lot of the works on your applications yourself. You don’t need a lot of parental help there. Because you are going to need financial aid, you need to find out what colleges are going to expect you and your famly to pay, so you might want to start getting that information and running the numbers through some calculators. The most important colleges are the ones that you KNOW that you can afford and that will probably take you. Your school counselor will have a good idea as to which state schools tend to take kids with your stats. From what I have gathered, the VA state schools count grades heavily, not just the composite GPAs but what your grades are in the academic subjects. That C in pre calc may hurt you at your state schools. Your counselor would know what your chances are at what schools given all of this.</p>

<p>As for privates, you can start your dream list and start filling out the apps. Occidental isn’t a bad choice at all. Good financial aid there. So you can start on those common apps and essays so you are ready to go wtih them when the time comes. I 'm not sure where the disagreements with your parents are as you don’t really need anything from them yet. Can you pay your own application fees? You can fill out the apps and keep them on hold until your parents will pay if it comes to that. </p>

<p>Cornell will be a tough go. I know two young women who were declined with similar stats from Cornell engineering. They were given an transfer option into the school after satisfactorily completing freshman year elsewhere, but they did not get accepted straight on. A good grade in calc this first term will be important, IMO because of that grade in precalc. </p>

<p>Georgia Tech has given females in engineering some awards. They don’t meet need, so it can be an issue, but worth a try. The girls I know who did not get into Cornell did get into GT and one got close to a full tuition award.</p>

<p>The thing is that my lowest grades have been in math which pulled down my gpa by a lot. C+ in geometry honors freshman year and C in precalc honore junior year. I don’t think I’d get into a good engineering school with those grades.</p>

<p>Well, maybe you can’t get into a TOP eng’g school, but there are a bunch of “good engineering schools” that would accept you.</p>

<p>Please don’t make the mistake of thinking that there are only a few “good engineering schools”. There are a BUNCH of good eng’g schools. In the state of Calif ALONE, there are over 25 good engineering schools. So, when you add in the ones across the nation, there are well over a 100 “good engineering” schools.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Obviously if she doesn’t develop a burning desire for Cornell, then I agree. But there aren’t a lot of private schools that offer both an aero/astro major and good financial aid, and if you don’t go to one then you can’t study it as an undergrad. </p>

<p>Applying RD puts her in a much larger, much more competitive pool. Also, Cornell is know for good financial aid, and she and her parents can decide when she gets the package if it makes sense financially. It either does or it doesn’t.</p>

<p>Also Ivy caries weight with Asian immigrant parents, justified or not. Cornell’s greatness in engineering is orthogonal to it’s Ivy membership.</p>

<p>@mom2collegekids and @ClassicRockerDad I really appreciate your advice. They were great and I think I will apply to some of the colleges you have adviced. Last night I came up with my college list and I would be grateful if you gave some insight on which colleges to remove from the list, so I can replace them with Cornell, Norte Dame and RPI. At the time I was just thinking about being a p hysics major, but I’m a little more comfortable about getting into engineering. </p>

<p>Washington and Lee
Barnard
Occidental
Vanderbilt (Parents insist)
Georgetown (Parents insist)
William and Mary (Parents insist)
University of Rochester
Pepperdine
George Washington
UVA (Parents’ number one choice)</p>

<p>Georgetown is the most selective school on that list (although the School of Foreign Service drives up the numbers and you’d presumably be applying to the CAS). It does not offer engineering. Its reputation is not particularly based on strength in the sciences. If you (or your parents) are determined to apply to a very selective, prestigious school in the mid-Atlantic region, for science/engineering Johns Hopkins would be a more logical choice (but about as reachy as Cornell). </p>

<p>George Washington is notoriously pricey. It meets full need of less than 60% of students, and on average meets less than 90%. USNWR ranks its undergraduate engineering programs 85th. VaTech is ranked 16th.</p>

<p>For a potential engineering major I do not understand this list at all. Apply to UVA and VT - both are excellent - as well as financial safeties (maybe Alabama, UAH?) and a few reach schools with good financial aid, such as Cornell.

Average net price for $0-30k income range at RPI is over $20k.</p>