Not sure about OP’s question at all. What is logical for one family, makes no sense for another. For example, it is logical for me if the applicant qualifies for great Merit scholarship, attend at colleges that offers the most. My logic practically contradicts the OP’s “logic in question”, if I understood the OP’s “logic in question” correctly. My “logic” is saying basically "do not apply to “good college” - a.k.a prestigious college if you are a top caliber HS student, since most prestigious colleges do not offer Merit based scholarships. What is “Logical” and what is not is very subjective here.
You have smart parents.
Only if they can afford to pay for it. One would hope that it isn’t an all or nothing offer. They only pay anything if it’s top 20 or the kid is on their own for anything.
As stated though, at that income, without substantial savings already or owning their home and cars outright, 60-70k a year is not doable on the salary unless they are willing to take on that kind of debt.
Which seems foolish to me.
Reply to Marian -You are so right. If kids do not understand that makes sense. But the problem in America is that the education system does not understand. Education has turned out into a business. Also if the family has good savings and are in better financial situation does not mean that the family should pay penalty for being responsible. People have changed the meaning of scholarship. They have added the term need based. If people need money than it is aid not scholarship. Education system can get better if people leading the educational institutions understand the meaning of education and give proper direction. The direction is clear - Students who are good needs to get educated irrespective of parents financial situation. It is the hard work and intelligence of the good students that can make country and education and so overall system great. These good students need to get a chance to contribute to the system that in turn contributes to people.
You seem to be confusing “education” with “elite” (i.e. “good”) colleges.
Today’s average student does at least some of his/her education at an inexpensive community college or within a relatively well-priced state college system.
Thanks Katliamom for the reply - You are right. The problem is not for average students. The problem is for the involved students who are good and inspite of them being good and capable of contributing to the system are getting under the burden of debt.
NMC, you don’t seem to understand how college loans work.
Nobody comes to your house and forces you to sign for a loan. Anyone with a debt burden has actively sought out a loan- filled out lots of forms, signed their name numerous times.
An “involved student” as you describe ought to be able to read a loan document before signing it.
Of course with that income, having 2 kids full pay at a private college, seems tight, BUT- you have no idea what their savings are. Perhaps they have a good chunk saved in a college account they have been contributing to for 15 years. Perhaps there is a grandparent lurking who will contribute.
Sometimes people are surprised that the amount of aid received is lower than they want based on annual income. But what they don’t understand, is that colleges would rightfully expect families to have been saving for college. So the calculation is made with that in mind.
This family may have done a good job saving
If the student is good enough to get into top colleges, they should be able to get a very generous scholarship at a lower ranked private college. They can also get a good education at their state flagship. And I would expect a famiiy with an income of $200K to have substantial savings.
I never considered paying money for my kids’ colleges from savings as paying a penalty for being responsible.
Depending on where the family lives, a mortgage could easily take a very large chunk of that income with a much higher COL. Without factoring that in, I would not necessarily expect that income to generate substantial savings, especially with 2 in college. It doesn’t mean that there isn’t but there are a lot of very good reasons why there may not be. Divorce or remarriage is one, economic set backs during the recession another and the list goes on. There are far too many unknown variables here to make a gross generalization that paying for school out of that income would either be tight, or that they should have substantial savings.
Only they know. It sounds as if the parents ONLY want to pay (anything) if a certain college admittance is obtained and then will pay any amount. That, for me personally, I have issues with, regardless of the income level. I am a big believer in kids having skin in the game but aside from the fact all they are allowed to borrow on their own is $5500 a year (which can maybe cover CC at best, certainly not an instate 4 year at any level), I would take issue with parents who could contribute something but choose not to at all as they don’t agree with the “value” of admittance obtained. Pay or don’t pay but that kind of “bribe” if that is what it is, rubs me the wrong way in a big way. What if the kid academically is incapable of getting those kinds of acceptances? No matter how good, nothing at that level is really a “safety” or a sure thing. Penalized for being a good student but not quite good enough? What if that flat out isn’t the kind of school the kid even wants? They don’t get any say in this?
Frankly if I were that student I might tell my parents to take their conditional money and keep it even if I did get in to their “worthy” schools, ask them to stop claiming me as a deduction, take a year or two to work and then go find my own merit and need scholarships and forge my own way.
Unless the student can earn a full ride merit scholarship, s/he would need to wait until financial aid independence (age 24, married, or military veteran) to have a realistic chance of self-funding bachelor’s degree study without parental assistance, in the case of wealthy parents who will not contribute.
Is thread about your neighbor’s kid or your kid?
Plenty of kids work hard and do well in high school. It doesn’t mean they deserve a spot at an expensive, elite school. Parents are first in line to pay for their child’s education. When parents can’t afford the net cost at the colleges their child wants to attend, they chase merit and/or need-based aid. If the colleges they want don’t offer merit aid and the parents make too much to get enough need-based aid, the student needs to choose new schools. Colleges don’t owe our children an education. Taxpayers in other states don’t owe our children an education. You need to work within the system we have to find an affordable college for your child and let your neighbor do the same.
That is correct from a FAFSA standpoint, however, if a child could show they were self fully sustaining financially, (paying rent, all utilities etc) in the income scenario outlined above at a profile school, they may be able to argue their case as being independent, and qualify for some aid at meets full need school. I was able to do so at 21 but that was a long long LONG time ago and my parents were not wealthy. The rules have changed.
Even at the income outlined above, with 2 students in college, such a student including the family income at a non FAFSA school, may qualify for some meets full need aid however the net result would still be more than an instate school without significant merit. Personally I would not consider 175-200K wealthy but I am in a very high COL area.
My point was more if I was that child I’d tell my parents to stuff it, get a job, take out the $5500 a year student loan that they can get and go after every and any kind of merit opportunity out there to make up the difference and assume I’d be working part-full time while I did it and eating a lot of top ramen. It would absolutely limit the options but if the student is that good as to be in the running for top 20…there is merit money out there without those kinds of strings and pressure. If the parents are only willing to pay for a top 20 school, I can’t see they are willing to co sign on a loan or take one out in their name so the kids options are really quite limited. And under those conditions I wouldn’t want to be tied into a loan with such parents anyway. It’s one thing to refuse to pay for college because the child isn’t committed. Wholly another to stack rank it like that.
What sort of idiot thinks that school quality, opportunities and name recognition falls off a cliff at number 20?
Immigrant parents who don’t know very much about the American universities @Pizzagirl
Yes, because heaven forbid there’s any kind of transmission in the community to the contrary.
I have a friend who paid full COA for two of her kids (one at Cornell, one at Tufts) but refused to pay for a mediocre private college for the one kid (was the oldest, too) who had mediocre grades and stats. They wouldn’t pay any more than what it costs to go to a SUNY - so that is where he went. They are very wealthy, too.
I know this because she told our whole tennis group.
That is a common thought, the state U vs elite.
Two issues here.
-
Do you need to motivate them when they are young, some kids are self motivated and some less so.
Would they be motivated to know that only their actions (not those of their parents) are going to affect what
they may see as a desirable outcome ? Then maybe a promise of full support is a good motivator.
Wont work for some kids, have to know your kid. -
Once they are late in HS, too late for above. The only issue is if their grades are good enough
to get them into elite and/or large merit from less elite. Do you let them turn away large merit scholarships
or top state schools for an elite that may not give you merit ? IMO this also depends on your kid, his
major, personality and the specific choices involved. Some less elite schools may be a better fit.
Some elite schools may be a great or terrible fit. But if lucky enough to get a good fit at an elite school,
do you want to take that off the table if you can afford it ? Conversely do you think it’s worth spending $60k+
at a school not so well known ? Depends on the other options and the fit for your kids. There is no right answer.
For me, I did have hard working kids and did want to reward their efforts.
If I could not afford to do so, that’s life, they would work hard and get ahead elsewhere,
but probably would have been a state school if no large scholarships elsewhere.
@emilybee that’s very different scenario than what the OP seems to have posed. The posted scenario seemed like an all or nothing offer on a very small selected list.
While I may not personally be a fan of paying more for one kid than the other because one has better grades and stats, they aren’t refusing to pay for college, just constraining it to what they think the performance is worth. And if the schools are equal (mediocre private versus SUNY) but a huge difference in price I can’t say that doesn’t seem reasonable. There is something to be said for ROI. Whether that family is getting it out of Cornell and Tufts versus the SUNY kid, only they know.
Choosing not to pay for your kid to go to college at all, if they don’t go to a (or get into) a school on your list…that’s a whole different ball game.