@ucbalumnus , I agree. If I were the Dean of All Colleges in the US, I’d want free community college with automatic transfer to state school upon meeting certain standards. I’d take away PELL from the private colleges and replace it with a surcharge if they do not have a certain SES, just as USNWR has a zinger for that. I would start on an initiative to make the state schools the best in the country. CA has done a great job with their system. Add some incentives to going to a state school, work on getting them to get the best students. It’s ridiculous that we have allowed the private school system to be the one ruling our country. They throw crumbs to the poorest students, take most of the top and those connected and benefit the school the most, rather than society, and leave out the middle class and those whose parents cannot or will not pay.
We bought a starter house and never moved (or renovated). Sons didn’t get cars. No balances on credit cards. Basic, reliable cars that we drove til they died. Lived on half our income in a high COL area. Lucky and privileged to have excellent public HS school options that were better than other options for our children.
I will mention that many of our sons’ classmates took the free ride from the flagship rather than the top-20/Ivy acceptance. They are now at those schools for graduate work, med school, etc. The full ride at the flagship is a very sweet deal and is a great option for parents who make enough to be full pay on paper, but not in reality – as is often the case in high COL areas.
We were near full-pay for two children (i.e., no grant $$) on significantly less than the OP’s stated income and assets. Did get some FA during the two years both sons were in college. Both sons took Staffords and worked. One got a year’s COA in internal and external merit $$. We tapped our HELOC for one semester’s worth of COA after I was no longer able to work. Otherwise, we paid out of current income and kept fully funding the 401k. No assistance from grandparents, no inheritances coming to bolster bank accounts.
Not having a big mortgage was probably the single biggest factor in being able to swing it. It enabled the cash flow to pay from current income while protecting our savings. Also kept us out of financial hot water because of significant ongoing medical expenses.
Would I pay $80k now for private? Not so sure about that. It would take some convincing.
You have done well. Do some research on schools at somewhat similar level of selectivity and academic standards with merit scholarships. Duke, Rice, Vanderbilt, CSU and few others on top 25 list still offer merit, focus on these colleges.
Time can be a blessing and a curse:
In five years, the tuitions of those TT schools might exceed $100k a year and the economy could be in another recession, thus the $300k income might not exist…
But there is always that silver lining: then the FA would kick in?
Taking AWAY Pell from private colleges? There is a segment of private colleges that have a history of doing THE MOST for needy kids- the highest graduation rates, the best track record getting these kids employed or into high demand grad programs, AND the lowest average loan obligations throughout the student body and often ZERO loans for low income kids. You want to punish the successful colleges who know how to get low income kids out and launched- and reward the ones which have high 8 year graduation rates? Or graduate boatloads of kids with degrees in event management and court reporting (professions which don’t require a BA at all?)
Yeesh. Talk about perverse incentives.
They are private schools. The $6K of PELL can be used to help more kids in the local context. The top kids that need money, these schools will pay that $6K. I’m trying to get far more mileage out of that $6K. It can pay a kid’s tuition for a year at a local community college plus transportation, books and other needs. It just bolster 10% of the private colleges charges. Some of those colleges are not going to be around in the next 20 years as demographics continue to shrink.
Taking away Pell is a blunt instrument. It’s a federal entitlement- you qualify, you get it.
I don’t like legislation which would tell a family on SNAP that they can shop at their local, small grocery store which has minimal fresh produce and NOT the big supermarket a few miles away which has every variety of fresh and healthy food. You can’t buy cigarettes with SNAP, but if the item you are purchasing qualifies- you can buy it. We don’t tell needy people that a federal entitlement can only go to a small and undercapitalized grocery store.
My local CC is great for a kid who wants to be a radiation tech, an LPN, a phlebotomist, etc. I’m not prepared to tell a high potential kid who qualifies for a Pell that he can become an LPN at the CC but that we won’t subsidize his getting a BS in Mechanical Engineering at a private university.
CPT- we usually agree on so much. But I think this is just bad public policy, and increases the gap between the educational haves and have-nots. As it is there’s so much keeping talented poor kids from a four year university…
But why should they and why would they? They certainly do not need to to attract top talent. Such a policy assumes the funds are for the school, but they are for the student and empower the student to make the decision about how far they want the funds to go and where to spend them. Blossom’s SNAP analogy is spot on.
CPT’s suggestion is an interesting one. HYPSM and their financial semi-peers aren’t dependent on that measly 6k per Pell student to keep their doors open. It may be a bit of a sweetener, but it isn’t necessary for them. They can afford to admit otherwise Pell-qualified students and support them without the federal money. Meanwhile the federal money could be focused on supporting the public institutions which do indeed educate the majority of the college population in the country.
@blossom - to be fair, that hypothetical high potential kidmechanical engineering at public colleges.
In no way are you too poor for the elite education. You have most of it saved up already and at least 5 years to save left. It sure seems like a walk in the park to me on 300K. There are plenty of families out there making 50-60K/year struggling to come up with 15-20K/year for state school. It’s not like getting into the Ivies that meet full need is easy even for a high stats kid.
The people I feel sorry for are the ones that were making a low income for most of their child’s life and couldn’t save, especially if they were juggling their own student loans and childcare costs, and then a few years before college the income shot up. 200K in the bank? You’re home free. I could pull off full pay at an Ivy on my 45K income if I had that to start with and 5 years to go!
Yes, at around ~$275K income and ~775K assets (OP said “less” than 300 and 800) and 5+ years to go, this is an easily solvable problem.
Now, it is an entirely different question whether paying full price is worth it. Personally, I wouldn’t be full-pay at anything other than a top 20 university, and only certain ones at that. Maybe 2 or 3 of the very top LACs. Maybe. YMMV, but if you are concerned about cost, then it suggests that my opinion might be consonant with yours.
Just stated but just because you can… Should you? Be nice to go public and have a lot of money for graduate school or a very nice way to start your life…
If a student has the grades & test scores to be admitted to an Ivy, they probably can get a merit scholarship at many state flagship universities…
Our flagship had PLENTY of top-notch students and it is very generous with AP/IB/placement exams. Was easy for top students to double major in less than four years, and/or take lots of graduate courses as part of completing said majors. Lots of academic challenge.
Nope, don’t apply. Let him apply for some reachy merit if you want. Don’t let your kid take more than federal loans. My kid had stats to apply anywhere, but need based aid only does not work for our budget.
We are cash flowing/529 plan our freshman’s college tuition. Both he and us will graduate debt free. We intentionally finished paying of our mortgage before he graduated. He is attending a top 15 public university.
Funny that you chose that particular example to illustrate something that would never happen at a state university, because there are currently 5 students enrolled in the Elementary Persian class at my son’s large state university. There are 4 and 2 students, respectively, in the Elementary & Intermediate Uzbek classes, 6 and 4 in Elementary & Intermediate Romanian, 3 in Elementary Czech, and 2 in Beginning Quechua.
My son is a sophomore and his smallest class this semester is a seminar with 5 students in it. His largest class so far had 40 students, and the rest have been in the 20-30 range.
His college options included Top 20 privates (full pay) as well as OOS flagships with large scholarships, and ultimately he chose his current school because it was much higher ranked for his major than any of the private options. The department is far larger, the course offerings in his major are much more extensive and include more unusual and specialized courses in areas of specific interest to him, and there are tons of research groups and opportunities for undergrad research. He has been able to jump right into 300 & 400 level courses in his major as a freshman and sophomore.
So in one sense I’m sure he would agree that his experience at this large flagship has been much “different” than it would have been Duke — he is already taking courses that are more advanced and/or specialized than any of the courses Duke offers in his major. The other main difference of course is that when he graduates he’ll have an extra $200K in the bank.
Plenty of people who DO “have the means to pay for privates” choose publics instead, for lots of very good reasons — no “rationalization” necessary.
We paid using 529 money, current cash, fed loans for kids (which we are partially paying off) and modest Plus loans for ourselves.
The approach worked for us. While there are definitely ways we could be more frugal, we’ve made other choices and I have no regrets about our debt levels.
Regret about debt is not really an issue until they become a regret. That is when there is a health crisis, unemployment, implosion of a rather delicate looking economy. I only think you can only declare yourself regret free is once there is no debt left and your future is fully funded. I would totally regret having to borrow PP and have my kids borrow max direct loans. Even direct loans become an issue for low paying jobs in many states.
I’m committed to doing all I can to get DS through college without debt because you just never know what the future brings. They might not finish and have loans and no degree or have trouble getting a job for whatever reason…some of these reasons could be out of their control.
I’m not knocking borrowing if that’s the only option and I see some value in having the kids take out the Stafford loan amount for “skin in the game” (maybe that the parent pays off as a gift if they graduate), but if you CAN get a solid education for X dollars at one school, I have a hard time with the idea of borrowing money to get a “better” degree somewhere else.
High income/high asset folks probably would not mind paying for college if the disparity in not so huge between in-state and out-of-state fees, esp in elite schools.