Parents...I Can't Make a Decision!

Parents Forum
1

<p>Okay, I'm a senior in high school in Canada, and I have an extremely complicated (although I suppose good) dilemna. I recently found out I got into the Penn State/Jefferson 6 year medical program, and I was all set to go there. But yesterday, I found out I got into Dartmouth, and on top of that, my financial aid package is amazing - I'm getting 35,000$ in grants, and $4,000 in loans/workstudy...so basically, my Dartmouth education will be paid for.
I really need advice, as I've been discussing this with my parents and we just can't come to a decision. So I'll list the facts for each decision:</p>

<p>PENN STATE / JEFFERSON</p>

<ul>
<li>I'm 100% sure I want to be a doctor. </li>
<li>The length is a big plus, because I'm excited about interacting with patients sooner...I'll be able to start learning to be a doctor in 2 years. Plus, I wont feel so limited when I consider residencies...</li>
<li>However, the undergrad degree will cost my family around $60,000. Money is <em>not</em> that big of an issue - we're not rich, but my parents are willing to take out loans. (I'm not going to compare the price for med school, as if I go to Dartmouth, I'll have to pay for med school too)</li>
<li>I've visited Penn State and I've visited Jefferson (during my interview) and I love both so much. Penn State sounds really fun, and the typical "college experience". Also, Jefferson has a great location that I fell in love with. </li>
<li>I'll be a lot less stressed because I know I have a seat in medical school.</li>
<li>I'm tired of resume-padding, and if I go to Penn State, I can do what I like, because I like doing it. </li>
<li>The program is really small and tight-knight: everyone seems to be friends, it seems like a fun/relaxed experience.</li>
<li>However, I do have to maintain a 3.5 GPA and get a 27 on the MCATS (I've heard this isn't a big problem for students in the program...)</li>
<li>I would give up my summers and start earlier (but this is a PRO for me, as I'm normally stuck babysitting my brother during the summer anyway, and I'm excited to get away from home and experience freedom) </li>
<li>I don't mind being "just a number" b/c the program itself is so small</li>
</ul>

<p>DARTMOUTH
- A lot less stress on my family's financial situation for the next four years: I'm practically paying nothing (maybe just my food)
- I'll get an amazing, top notch Ivy-league education
- "Prestige": I hesitate to put this here, but it'd be awesome to be a Dartmouth alum for life
- Everyone I've met who's gone to Dartmouth has loved it: they talk about the D-Plan and the sophmore summer and how they had the time of their lives, and how it was an unforgettable experience
- The friends I'll make at Dartmouth
- The fact that I'll be able to branch out, and take more liberal arts courses (this would be good,though not something I require)
- However, I'm going to be continually stressed (like I was in high school) and the prospect of applying to med school, flying around interviewing, and maybe not getting in is scary
- But I can get the best of both worlds: get Dmouth education for free, and then go to medical school </p>

<p>I'm sorry this message is really long. I keep going back and forth: one minute it's Dartmouth, the other minute it's Penn State. It's terrible, because I feel like no matter what I choose, I'm giving up something amazing. I'm planning on going to Dimensions (if they'll cover the costs) and hopefully sort it out, but I'd really like...wiser...opinions. Thanks!</p>

2

<p>Maintaining a 3.5 gpa rings a few bells...but other than that you have a terrible problem! ;)</p>

3

<p>As someone who would be in your class at Dartmouth, and someone who has loved that school forever, I'd probablt take Penn State given your choices. If you really know you wand to be an MD it would sure be nice not to have to sweat getting into med school. And it seems like you really like the school.</p>

<p>BTW, how on earth did you get so much aid from Dartmouth if you're not dirt poor?</p>

4

<p>I am dirt poor...haha. I guess I'm really lucky in that my parents support me in my goals, and they're willing to make a lot of sacrifices for my education (i.e. take out a million loans if they need to...and I'll pay them back when I can, of course)</p>

<p>Overseas: I'm not sure what you were saying...lol...I'm sorry, can you clarify?</p>

5

<p>If you are really sure you want to be a doctor, I think Penn State is the better choice. It takes away a lot of pressure. One thing you haven't considered is that the Penn State option is actually $65k cheaper, because that's what that one extra year of med. school is going to cost. So the Penn State option is actually less expensive for you and your family than Dartmouth.</p>

6

<p>You will have the continual "pressure" of maintaining a 3.5 gpa, but maybe that won't be difficult for you to do.</p>

7

<p>Hi, Toothfairy, I am an MD, and there are several other MDs, including one moderator who are active on the Med School forum, so you may want to repost there as well as here - you'll get answers either place.</p>

<p>Help me be sure i understand what you are comparing, because BA/MD programs vary. You will go to PennState 2 years , then Jefferson Medical College for 4, and finish with an MD. Will you pay OOS rates at Penn State for the 2 and then 4 years of med school tuition? What is in that $60000?</p>

<p>Why do you want to go med school in the US? I'm not all that familiar with the Canadian med ed system, but I know they have some excellent hospitals, and residency and fellowship programs that attract US students, so I would consider them comparable in quality - is it extremely difficult to get in?</p>

8

<p>Go to Dartmouth unless you are sure you would hate fraternity-defined social evenings which is the dominant theme of the social culture. That could be the dealbreaker but we met plenty of non drinkers at Dartmouth. There are Independents at Dartmouth who entertain themselves outside of frats etc, and you could do it. If you are good enough to be selected at Penn State, you are good enough to stay focused and work hard enough at Dartmouth to get into med school.
We love the size of Dartmouth and the undergrad focused education and the international student body. The students we met had that certain thing that defined "school spirit" even though they really were a group of unique individuals. There is an outdoorsy/sporty atmosphere on campus, too, as the landscape tends to permeate the school and make it a bit more balanced. Class size is great, access to faculty mentoring is great. Don't focus on the "sure thing" of Penn. You can make it happen and also have a rare opportunity to have a magnificent undergrad life and liberal arts foundation. Just one opinion...</p>

9

<p>3.5 is a pretty high gpa to maintain while battling it out with cut-throat pre-med majors. I'm not acquainted with med school applications, but you'd probably want to maintain a 3.5 GPA wherever you went to college to have a good shot at med school anyway. So the pressure would be on you no matter where you went.</p>

<p>Even if you went free through Dartmouth, I don't think you'd be able to get through med school for $60K. So Penn State sounds like a bargain.</p>

<p>The only problem is if you change your mind and decide not to become a doctor. Then you'll wish for that free Dartmouth education.</p>

<p>Bottom line: Penn State unless you quaver about becoming a doctor</p>

10

<p>Hi, thanks for all of the opinions!
Just to clarify:
I said that Penn State would cost $60,000. This was for the 2 years at PSU, and includes the tuition and room/board.
I did not take into account the cost of medical school, because I would also be paying a similar amount of money to go to medical school after Dartmouth.
So basically, the Penn State is more expensive upfront. However, one could argue that because I'd be working 2 years earlier, I could repay that money in one year. </p>

<p>Cangel: I want to go the US because I eventually want to work in the US as a doc (I lived in the US for some time, and I also like the climate better :D)</p>

<p>Overseas/Ellemenope: I see what you mean. I've spoken to some of the program kids, and they said that it isn't difficult to maintain that GPA at all. Of course, maybe I was talking to a group of geniuses...</p>

<p>Keep the opinions coming! They're greatly appreciated :)</p>

11

<p>"So basically, the Penn State is more expensive upfront. However, one could argue that because I'd be working 2 years earlier, I could repay that money in one year."</p>

<p>And you save on one year of tuition/room and board. (In other words, the costs are really a wash.)</p>

<p>You are not going to be part of a small, tight-knit group of pre-meds at Dartmouth. Likely, if it is like most competitive schools, you'll be dealing with significant freshman weed-out. Nor will you be seeing patients any time soon. You will, of course, find excellent and wonderful students.</p>

12

<p>Dartmouth for sure. Plans change. You're young. You can get into med school from Dartmouth. Dartmouth will give you a broader and richer learning environment and experience - plus it is cheaper.</p>

13

<p>I would not encourage most kids thinking of medical school to miss one year of undergraduate college, let alone 2. As an undergrad you are spending your academic life knowing more and more about more and more. Contrast that with medical school and beyond- spent knowing more and more about less and less...</p>

<p>I personally am sorry that I chose to major in a science in college...knowing I was planning to go to med school. Now that I have a 'PhD in Hindsight' I wish I had taken a 'braver' or less traditional route-- so be it...if you have to major in bio or chem, you at least want to take enough other things so that you can look back when you are totally inundated with cranial nerves, up to your elbows in a cadaver- and have a wee bit of pleasure thinking about Rilke...</p>

14

<p>Dartmouth, no contest.</p>

<p>College is a precious and unique opportunity to become truly educated and cultured, to meet people and make friends whose aspirations and talents will enrich one another, to discover academic disciplines and extracurricular venues in the arts, sports, politics, etc. etc. This is what you would find at a place like Dartmouth (or the LACs or other Ivys or many other fine colleges). I know people who went to Jefferson/Penn State. They are very smart, but very one track minded. The program is more of a vocational school for docs. </p>

<p>You might discover in a college likde Dartmouth, that you don't want to be a conventional doctor. You could find you have talents in areas that are far more interesting and rewarding, but you will do so only if you are at a place that gives you the opportunities for such discoveries. (My kids, all at Ivys, took a lot of different courses at college; when they left high school their perceptions of what they wanted to do were very different from what they ended up majoring in or are heading for majoring.) </p>

<p>Even though Dartmouth would be cheaper to attend at this point (which is pretty ironic), that is NOT the reason you should go there. That is simply frosting on the cake. Also, prestige is NOT the reason to pick one school over another. I could write a book with specifics about why a smart, talented young person SHOULD go to a place like Dartmouth instead of program like Penn/Jeff, but enough for now. I guarantee you, if you attend Dartmouth you will understand why it were the best life-altering decision to choose Dartmouth.</p>

15

<p>don't have to think twice, my vote is:</p>

<p>DARTMOUTH! Known for it's undergraduate education. Has a great medical school! Beautiful location! You're so lucky!</p>

<p>but in reality, you need to visit, spend the nite, go to a few classes and see what feels right! you have a wonderful decision to make!</p>

16

<p>I echo sevens' and robyrun's sentiments - one of the most common regrets voiced among my fellow professionals is that they remained too focused on their future profession and therefore didn't take the opportunity to explore other areas of learning. You've expressed eagerness at getting to work with patients earlier than if you went the "conventional" route - but remember that you have the rest of your life to work with patients. Two years is a drop in the bucket. You'll be a better doctor if you become a more well-rounded individual. And...even though you are "100% sure" you want to be a doctor, be aware that life has a way of surprising us with new passions, or perhaps a slight change in orientation.</p>

<p>My goddaughter is graduating from Dartmouth this year and will be attending Harvard Law School next year. She had a wonderful undergraduate experience. </p>

<p>You mentioned that you are lucky that you are dirt poor...and that your parents are willing to put themselves in an uncomfortable financial position with plenty of sacrifices so you can realize your dreams. I don't think it's inappropriate for you to be thinking about their dreams as well. Not only do they need to be concerned with planning for their retirement years, but they also have to shoulder the burden of your brother's education. You have the opportunity to got to an Ivy League school and recieve a top-notch education (complete with great pre-med counseling and mentoring) with minimal financial burden on your family - and you graduate with no debt whatsoever.</p>

<p>Given all these factors, choosing Dartmouth would be the obvious move in my eyes.</p>

17

<p>I'd advise my child to go to Dartmouth, do not deny yourself a true undergraudate experience. Med Schools will be there, waiting for you. Enjoy the remainder of your "childhood." Less financial stress is best for the whole family and you'd be more relaxed and do better both academically and socially during your college years.</p>

18

<p>Ok Toothfairy, I'm back.</p>

<p>1) I'd hazard to say that most MDs would discourage the 6 year and out route for a number of reasons. The most telling, I guess, is that in 20+ years of practice I have never met a doctor who said, "Gee, I wish I had taken 1 more bio course in college or 1 more chem, it would have made med school so much easier!" But I know many who wish they had had more literature or history. </p>

<p>2) Doesn't sound as if your overall indebtedness will be less at Penn, actually more? More debt + med school = Really Bad Thing</p>

<p>3) Wherever you go, pre-med will be hard, even Penn State, although you will be isolated from some of the rigors, you will still have big classes.</p>

<p>4) My D is at Dartmouth and she is very happy, she has toyed with pre-med, and a couple of her friends are considering med school. Pre-med is hard there, no doubt. Her closest friend that is very serious about becoming an MD, is taking only the math and science required for graduation (he's a literature major). This, evidentally, is a pretty common path at elite schools. I know a girl, Yale grad, who is starting med school this summer. She has been out about 3 years, working and taking science classes - preparing to come home to her state med school.</p>

<p>5) I don't know what the requirements to attend US med schools for Canadian citizens is, but another common money saving path in the US, is to establish residency by living, working, and going to college in a given state, then applying to the state's med school. In our part of the country, tuition at a very well-respected med school is about half Ivy undergrad. Unlike, law, it really doesn't matter where you go to med school, unless you want to do very high-powered basic research, or you go to one of a few of the very lowest ranked schools. Even at the lowest school, if you do very well, top of the class, you can get an excellent residency.</p>

<p>6) If you were my child or my niece asking my opinion, I would say go to Dartmouth, you are being offered a wonderful gift almost free, then find what the least expensive (probably return to Canada) way to go to med school would be - and do that. If you crave warm weather, there are a number of places where you could finish up your pre-reqs, and soak up some sun for less than you think (especially if you go parttime and work). Besides, if you got offered a 6 year med place, you are no slouch, and may well do very well even at Dartmouth pre-med.</p>

19

<p>I agree. Dartmouth is more encouraged because, from what you wrote, you seem to want to experience something exciting (not that penn will be boring,But) Just try to imagine yourself 20 years from now and ask yourself about the decision: Will you regret it?</p>

20

<p>I vote for Dartmouth.</p>

<p>Find out the stats, I'll bet that 75% of Dart kids get into one of their 1st 3 med schools picks. And you are above average at this game.</p>

<p>I think that you will be a better doctor for having gone to Dartmouth. </p>

<p>I think that you will be a better person for having gone to Dartmouth.</p>