Parents... I need some advice

Parents Forum
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<p>So, I occasionally lurk here and because I am having some "issues" with my parents I thought maybe I should come here, rather then to my peers, for advice. </p>

<p>First a little background: I'm a good student, am pretty much the top of my class, have a steady job, take extra college courses, and spend most of my leftover time working in one of various county and statewide leadership positions. I'm a good kid... there's no disagreement there. For as far back as I can remember, my parents and I don't really have a traditional relationship. I do what I want, I don't ask permission, and they just expect that I make the right choices. So with college admissions, I visited various schools over the summer(mostly by myself or with friends) and choose to apply to the following: Univ of Delaware, Univ of Maryland, Univ of South Carolina, Univ of Miami, Syracuse, Northeastern, Embry Riddle, Lehigh, Lafayette, and Smith... all of which were done on my own and for the most part without my parents knowledge. Aside from a few dinner discussions along the lines of "How's your college search going?", "Oh, good. I think I'm going to apply to....", "That sounds great!". </p>

<p>The problem: Now that my acceptances are rolling in and I'm expressing my desire to attend a private larger LAC type school, I find out that they really don't agree with this. So, I'm like "Oh, thanks for letting me know after the fact!"</p>

<p>Of the schools I've been accepted at they see that my choices are as follows: UMD honors(at ~$15K tuition and room/board), USC(at ~$10K tuition and r/b), and UDel(cost to be determined... if I get accepted, which I assume I will). Why? Because they see all the rest of the schools I applied to as too "elitist". How can I argue with this? I mean, from their point of view anybody that pays $40K a year for school is A) ignorant or B)elitist. I argue about class sizes, professor accessibility, sense of community, more individualized education, etc and they say that all can be found at a state school at a MUCH(always emphasized) lower cost. </p>

<p>Because cost seems to be the root of all evil around here, I feel like I should give you some insight into that as well. We've got plenty of money... my sister is on a full ride and I'm the only other child. Both my parents are full time professionals who make great salaries yet they are VERY thrifty. Our EFC was way out of the range of any need based aid and to be honest, my scores just aren't great enough to qualify for significant merit based aid. I've been getting about 10K from my $40K schools but this just isn't enough, in their eyes. They say they'll pay for wherever but will be "disappointed" if I make "the wrong decision." </p>

<p>So, now that March is here, April is soon approaching, and May is just plain too close, and I'm at a loss as to how to reasonably discuss things with them... </p>

<p>Any insight?</p>

<p>I mean, am I being unreasonable? I know its alot of money but I feel as though if they wanted to play a role in my college decision maybe they should have started a bit earlier in the process. I would have applied to different schools if I had known that they were completely unsupportive of the schools I was interested in. </p>

<p>Thoughts?</p>

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<p>Only your parents know what they can really afford though it would have been fair to tell you before applying. Do you know what their expenses are? Can you help through summer jobs and loans? Also, none of the schools on your list usually cause the elite word to be flung. Which do they have problems with?</p>

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<p>Oh, dear. I feel so sorry for you! As a parent, I can't imagine anything I'd rather spend my money on than my kids' educations! </p>

<p>Obviously, it is too early to know exactly where you'll (or they) will stand come April. Some may yet come through with dollars. </p>

<p>I'm not sure what it means when "They say they'll pay for wherever..." You could, of course, end up taking them at their word (until it changes of course). But it certainly wouldn't be a comfortable position to be in. On the other hand, you say that their policy is basically to leave you alone, and they have the money for this, so if they are actually grudgingly willing to make it happen, you could just decide to give them a big kiss, take the money (and then get a little bit of counseling!) And then, later, look back at how proud you made 'em.</p>

<p>I wish I had more to add. (Obviously, if they won't pay, and there are no other payments options, your choices are easier - not the ones you wanted, certainly, but most of us have lived through life knowing their are things we would have liked that we just aren't able to afford.)</p>

<p>I will hold your parents in the light.</p>

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<p>I'm fairly certain that they can afford any top college and they've assured me that they can. BUT, they don't see the value in it. As for what they view as elitist: Smith, Lehigh, Lafayette, Syracuse, Miami... the list goes on. I try to explain that some of these schools give out LOTS of aid and that the kids that go there aren't snobs(in terms of finances or prestige... IMO they aren't one in the same). They disagree. I can't argue anymore but I feel like I'm giving up whiich I don't do often. I'm at a loss as to what I'm going to do because I don't see myself doing overly well at a big state school but right now I don't see that I have any other option. Even though they say they'll pay, what happens if they renege and I'm left in a huge mess. I don't think that I am willing to go against their wishes... I mean, I still need their support(financially and emotionally) and I don't want to risk the lifelong relationship over something as "simple" as college.</p>

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<p>It's not a simple situation. You've made a case for what you see as the benefits of the schools you'd rather attend. Perhaps you could construct for yourself a plan to earn part of the costs and assume a loan in some amount, and present that plan to them; perhaps seeing that it's important enough to you that you are willing to assume debt on your own would help sway them? That you aren't just being capricious about it, that you're serious enough to work for what you want?</p>

<p>If it were me, I would not want to cause a family rift, but I would also not want to give up on what I knew deep down to be best for me. Keep trying, there are two months left.</p>

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<p>You need to have the big talk about finances and what you really want and why it is worth the big buck. It is all good and well to say that you have done all of this work and they let it go, but you have to understand that by not being involved they are not emotionally invested in this process. In some ways this is very good. Too many parents are overly invested in the process, more than the kid. But when you have not seen the school, discussed the pros and cons, watched your reactions to things at the school, they are making a decision based on rankings, programs and $$$s. How do you explain how much more you like Syracuse, for example, over MD with the price differential as it is? They have to see and feel it. On paper, I don't guess I can see too much of a difference either, but I can feel the difference between the cost. You need to write out a report on each school, your impressions, your feelings, and discuss it with them. Perhaps a joint visit is in order. You may learn something too. It is not always the best decision to go for a high ticket school even if your parents can afford it. What are the reasons for your preferences and are they truly worth the difference? How important is it to you? My son really made my husband feel so much better when he told him that he could enjoy going to SUNY Binghamton (we were in NY then), and would do so if finances dictated. He then gave his reasons for preferring some high ticket schools. It is something I remember in that college process, that was not always so pleasant. It was an acknowledgement of understanding what that cost of a private school was. When he picked his school, he did pick a great merit package, but assured us that it was not the only reason. He had reasons important to him. I don't think we felt they were necessarily the most important things in a college, but it came right from the heart. And we did go and visit the school before we made the decision, which is what we shall do if a choice is needed for my senior year son.</p>

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<p>anovice; I more than disappointed my parents. They were downright furious when I decided to go to an 'elitist' school after I got off the waitlist...in August! :) It was upsetting at the time because I applied to elitist schools after they told me they could afford to send me anywhere. However, when it came time to pay those HUGE tuition bills of $6k, lol, they pushed and pushed for State U. They refused to drive me to the school. I had to find my own ride (I was their eldest child). They refused to buy me any clothes or supplies. They put up as many obstacles as they could think of and I went over each and every one of them like a track star. </p>

<p>As that badly dressed 'track' star, I went to the elite university and had a great, great time. I ended up taking loans out and I took a year off to earn money. I was an RA--but I didn't work during the school year. Too hard to do with architecture school. I reckon I paid for half of the six year education.</p>

<p>All in all, it was one of my finest decisions. The loans were easy peasy to pay off. They didn't impact my career at all. </p>

<p>On the flip side, I have a friend who wasn't allowed to go to Harvard via loans/jobs. Woo doggies, she is still bitter at 43. </p>

<p>Live you life as you see fit. My parents could have foreseen my future if they'd had Superman glasses. They would never have predicted the level of my success. </p>

<p>I underestimate my Ss too. Maybe I can't help it. So much of what I know about them is directly related to their helplessness.</p>

<p>That said, it is possible to go over parental objections in a civil manner. Be firm but civil is my advice....</p>

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<p>Thanks to all who responded.</p>

<p>The comments about taking loans out and getting a job have already been discussed. We have talked at length about what I will be expected to contribute. Regardless of where I go I will be expected to take the maximum amount of interest free(or reduced interest) loans offered by the government and they WILL be in my name. I will be expected to pay these off regardless of where I go. I have also been told that when I am home, I am to work... something about how I am not on a vacation and if they have to work, I have to work. There has even been mention of me "maybe" getting a job during school if I have time... I'm an engineering major... ummm, hello? I'm not going to have time! My dad is an engineer and he states that it "isn't that hard and you're going to have tons of free time". He must be must smarter than I. </p>

<p>This is why its so confusing... in terms of impact for me, I will end up paying the same amount and working the same hours regardless of whether I got to state U or high priced U. BUT, they make me feel horrible when they throw around the ideas about value, how I'm an elitist, paying for the name, selfish because UMD isn't good enough for me, etc. Its really gotten horrible and most "conversations" are really more like cut throat arguments... they start off as rational discussions and end in personal attacks. </p>

<p>My parents put my sister through the same thing last year and she chose the cheaper school... I think they believe that I will do the same. They don't realize that I don't go down as easy as she. My sister is constantly telling me to "ignore them" and make my choice with my best interest in mind. I don't want to be regretting my decision like I think she may. </p>

<p>Regardless,
Thanks.</p>

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<p>Too late for this situation, but please note that anytime an afilliated party is significantly affected by a decision it's a pretty good idea to involve them in the decision-making process, regardless of their stated interest.</p>

<p>That said, if they say they will pay for "wherever" I would take them at their word. I would also look hard at the UMd honors school to see if it would offer the smaller classes, sense of community etc. you are looking for. Otherwise, I'd try and make your case for the smaller schools based as much on the quality of the engineering opportunities and overall academics as on the other values you cite and see what happens. </p>

<p>Also make sure you can handle the projected loans. Nothing the matter with working in the summer, in any event. </p>

<p>BTW - I would be hard pressed to make a case for Syracuse or U of Miami based on your criteria, but definitely see your point vis-a-vis Lehigh, Lafayette and Smith.</p>

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<p>Anovice:
I feel for you. In a way, the conversation with your parents is either too late or too early. It should have occured at the time when you were applying to colleges; now, it is best to wait until you actually get acceptances from your top schools and see what financial aid might be offered. It could be a moot question. If you do get substantial financial aid at your top schools, your parents might well feel differently.
Last year, Songman agonized over UMass-Amherst vs. Skidmore. In the end, he chose to send his son to UMass-Amherst, feeling that it was not worth the very considerable difference in cost to send him to Skidmore. Angstridden's D was admitted to UMD's Honors Program and seems very happy. And you might read Evil Robot's posts on his decision to go to Vanderbilt instead of Yale and thus be able to graduate debt-free.
While waiting, do investigate the possibilities at UMD. As I said, Angstridden's D seems happy there.</p>

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<p>anovice,
checking out UMD while you are waiting wouldn't be a bad idea at all. It may turn out to be just fine. Sitting in on classes would help you get a better feel for it. UDel would have been on my son's list if his financial safely wasn't the private university his dad works at (tuition waiver). </p>

<p>If you are accepted at a pricey school, and decide to attend, you will hear about it from your parents for the rest of their lives. However, if you make a decision about college that you know is wrong, you've got yourself to live with for the rest of your life. If you are sure that you're not going to put the whole family in financial risk, and yourself in untenable debt, at some put you need to value yourself in more than just dollars and cents.</p>

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<p>Is your parent's issue really money or the elite schools? On Gilmore girls tonight, Rory apologizes to her mother for the fact that her new boyfriend is rich. What exactly do parents think will happen when their kids mix with the wealthy? Can someone explain?</p>

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<p>reidm... My top choices are Lehigh, Lafayette, and Smith. Syracuse, Miami, and Northeastern looked appealing at first, but I, like you, agree that there isn't that much difference between them and the state schools. </p>

<p>marite... thanks. My parents would feel very differently if I had gotten substancial scholarships at my favored schools yet it is not looking like this will happen. I am still waiting to hear on a few but things don't look so good.</p>

<p>ohio_mom... you've pinpointed my exact fear with going to a pricey school. I don't want to hear about it for the rest of my life. </p>

<p>zagat... my parents believe that wealth leads to poor values and although we are on the wealthy side, they have always raised us in a very modest manner. I personally don't believe this idea, but then again, I'm not paying the bills. I also remind them that if they haven't instilled good values in me by now, its not going to happen in college. Regardless, I don't think that private schools are full of rich kids as many are there with financial aid packages... you don't get financial aid packages if you're wealthy. </p>

<p>...thanks to all.</p>

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<p>anovice,</p>

<p>if you are not going to be admitted into your top choices, then I'm afraid that I will be agreeing with your parents. The value for money is a factor.</p>

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<p>We faced a somewhat similar situation 4 years ago, though husband and I were divided on the financial aspect. He graduated from a 4th tier college, then on to a state med school (tuition 1K/year at the time!) and the specialty of his choice. He remained blissfully unaware as our oldest and I went about her college search, and was shocked when the eventual choices were laid on the table. He just couldn't accept that it was all that important to go to a top school, since he'd achieved his own success without that advantage. He was on the verge of a stroke when our d wanted to turn down a full tuition scholarship and several attractive partial merit scholarships for her eventual choice (W & M).</p>

<p>Many, many difficult discussions later (reminiscent of anovice's comment above about "Its really gotten horrible and most "conversations" are really more like cut throat arguments"), he agreed, because we actually could afford W & M (with a good deal of nickel-squeezing). D was, and remains, thrilled with her choice - and with her Dad. As a friend pointed out while we were agonizing over this issue - "He can either say no and make her angry and resentful, or say yes and be the world's greatest Dad for the rest of his life." He has become a huge fan of W & M, with more logo baseball caps and t-shirts than I can count and a car that looks like the W & M merchandise catalogue.</p>

<p>anovice, if your parents are successful professionals who live well within their means and haven't had to pay for your sister's education, they probably can afford to support you in your top choice school. I'd advise going for it unless your eventual choices really don't present significant differences. (UMd is a terrific school!) There's nothing wrong with their expectation that you borrow some, or that you use the earnings from your steady job. I agree with you that a job while you're a first-year engineering student probably isn't a good idea.</p>

<p>Long-winded this morning - just intended to say that your parents may become more supportive once you're enrolled. Good luck and keep us posted.</p>

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<p>This is a soul searching thread. As a parent looking at having 3 kids in college at the same time, I'm rethinking my values. Despite a good income, the amount of money involved has made me question institutional value even though education has been my number one financial priority for years.</p>

<p>Here we have a would be engineer. If MIT or Cal Tech were in the running I would not hesitate to make the sacrifice to send my children. As I look at this scenario however, I think that one of the lesser cost options will land her in the same place professionally.</p>

<p>So the question comes down to whether we want to pay the extra $20K or so each of four years to make the child happier. Next question is will she really be happier? How do we really evaluate this? Many kids are going on myth and dreams when perceiving the difference between schools.</p>

<p>We are mostly child-centered parents here and certainly we are all committed to education. But where do you draw the line?</p>

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<p>kirmum:
Evil Robot's posts now and last year were made for families like yours. His family was actually willing to make the sacrifice to send him to Yale; but eventually, he decided that he was better off going to Vandy debt free, and is thriving there.<br>
I do think that Vandy is a very reasonable alternative to Yale. If it had been Podunk U vs. Yale, the calculus would likely have been very different.</p>

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<p>Count me in with those who say that unless it's Smith or Lafayette, you will do extremely well by choosing an excellent public honors college such as the ones to which you have been admitted. You are talking about publics where the honors kids are a pampered lot, from what I can see, with wonderful access to seminars, internships, research opportunities, etc. And, to be blunt, if I put on my elitist hat I would be more impressed by hearing someone did one of those public honors programs than I would by hearing they went to most of the private schools to which you applied.</p>

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<p>Just to be clear about this, I am really not comparing UMD to Syracuse or Miami but rather UMD/USC/UDel to Lafayette, Smith, and possibly Lehigh. I am in agreement that there simply aren't enough reasons to justify a large medicore private over a good public. </p>

<p>I think a big part of this decision for me is about where I would feel comfortable. At this point I can completely see myself at Lafayette and would be comfortable at Lehigh and Smith. My parents argue that being comfortable is not always a good thing and being challenged will only make you a better person. I have some fear about being thrown into an environment where I am one of 150 in a lecture hall and up until the day the semester is over, the professor has NO CLUE that I even exist. I guess I just want more interaction then that. Question is, what is that worth? I am having a hard time justifying the cost not only to my parents but to myself. I feel like I would thrive in a smaller environment where in a larger environment I feel as though I may separate myself. I am a young high school graduate and am not the type that I see going to a big public school... not that I'm not independent, but I think I have higher expectations.</p>

<p>once again,
thanks.</p>

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<p>I agree that Lehigh, Lafayette and Smith will be different and perhaps more personal experiences than a public honors college. However, if you choose UMD Honors, I think you will be pleasantly surprised with it and with your strong peers. One argument that I think has some merit is that you need a challenging peer group. Take a good look at the stats on your peers at your top schools and honestly assess your needs and abilities. Present this to your flinty thrifty parents if there is an issue with you being in the top percentiles of the freshmen class...a situation that can be lonely and unfulfilling. Evil Robot is my hero, but his almost perfect test scores did not put him in a situation where he was really so very different than the mainstream at Vanderbilt. Vanderbilt has a large percentage of high acheivers and he is happy socially and in the classroom with them.<br>
I think what you are dealing with really is parents who are simply not child-centered and who removed themselves emotionally from your college search process deliberately, and they are not going to be sacrificial or particularly supportive of college expenses. It is disappointing but there it is. Other kids have other problems. It is not the worst problem you could have and you can still make college a hugely wonderful chapter in your life. Look around you and you will see some of your classmates are making it in every college freshman class with little parental support and you can admire them. One of my favorite classmates had a parent in prison my freshman year, and others had divorcing parents who were economically in total disarray. How does a friend with an alcoholic parent, or divorced parents who are not cooperating make it in a four year school with some peers whose parents seem willing to make sure they have a total free cushioned ride? At the age of 18, many of us will find ourselves at odds with the adults who raised us and disappointed with some aspects of things about them right before we launch. That is universal. My advice to you is to wait out your admissions season, quit trying to "change your parents(Hopeless)," and try to make a decision to push for that private school and take the consequences (accept your loans with zero complaints, try not to react to the berating) or go to the honors college with a great attitude. The point is you will have to separate your emotional experience from that of your parents. We parents have a struggle sometimes in allowing you to go, but we do learn to respect any kid who is constructive and positive. In other words, if you take on loans, don't be bitter or resentful--just do it. If you go to the Honors Colleges, go with all your heart and embrace those who teach and make that community work. College is really about you being at that moment in your life where you create your own emotional world. You sound like a responsible enough person and you can succeed with degrees at UMD or Lehigh, but you will only find joy in the four years if you also choose how you will deal with this passage emotionally. Many of my favorite more resiliant classmates worked in our dining hall and student center while the more pampered students had zero responsibilities. Whatever you do, don't let this juncture when your parents are not going to come through in the way you would find ideal ---color your freshman year. I always advise giving your heart to your undergrad school, to your new friends and new teachers. Contribute to your college, whichever one you choose. Colleges have a way of giving back. Even though you are torn right now about being at odds with your folks, if you Choose to be Happy come August, I predict you will have a wonderful four years ahead of you. best wishes</p>