Parents, I need your help.

Parents Forum
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<p>Hi,</p>

<p>I've had a weird high school career. Well to be honest, I'm sure people have gone through what I have but I still consider my situation unique. I started off at a magnet program which I despised: it was engineering oriented and, to put it simply, that was never meant to be my career choice. I asked my parents if I could leave after my first year (the engineering classes were lowering my GPA: for some reason, I couldn't get an A in those classes) but they told me to stick with it. So I did.</p>

<p>That's when the trouble began. Sophomore year is a year that I will never look back at with fond memories. I now had 4 magnet courses (one of which took up my lunch period) and on top of that I was taking honors English and AP Statistics. It was also when I had saved up enough money to buy an xbox, and I was playing it nonstop. It was my release-- whenever I felt burdened, I booted up Halo and played a few matches with friends to relax. Then it got worse: I started staying up late, stopped doing homework, even started to skip some days because I felt so fatigued in the morning. Sometimes, I fell asleep right in front if the teacher while he or she was lecturing. Frankly, it was embarrassing.</p>

<p>But worse than that, it had affected my school work and everything else I did. I dropped out of extracurriculars that I couldn't focus in anymore. I started skipping classes because I didn't do the homework. Sometimes I would bring a laptop and work on a PowerPoint in the bathroom during a different class. I skipped so many days of school my guidance counselor told me if I skipped any more I would be expelled. I had several meetings with teachers, who realized I was intelligent but that I wasn't doing any of the work. At the time, I blamed my teachers. Now I realize that I had only myself to blame.</p>

<p>I was relieved to pass that year with a 3.0 weighted. But my family decided it was time for a change and we left our old state and moved to a new one. I decided I wasn't going to do this anymore. I was out of the program, I was at a new school (ranked in the top 60 public schools, which was a huge contrast from my old school)-- this was my chance. And I did well: I got a 4.0 with 3 AP classes in junior year. I'm now in my senior year, taking a full load of AP classes and getting As in almost all of them. I took the SAT recently and scored a 2360 (800CR/800M/760W). I was among the 5 students in our graduating class designated as a National Merit Semifinalist. I feel great.</p>

<p>Now I know I won't get into an "amazing" college because of my marred high school career. By "amazing", I mean in the context of what my parents believe. The problem with colleges these days is that they send mail only based on SAT-- because of this, I have received mail from top colleges like Harvard, MIT, Yale, Princeton, etc. (I'm sure many of your children have as well) and this has given my parents the false impression that I will be attending one of these schools. To be honest, I would be incredibly grateful if I could get into a top 30 school. But my parents won't have any of it. I just don't know what to do anymore. I don't feel like doing any applications because I know wherever I get admitted, it won't be good enough for my parents. What do I do?</p>

<p>Thanks for reading. I needed a place to vent, I thought I might as well do it here.</p>

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<p>Have your parents talk to the guidance counselor at your school who can set them straight and help them agree on realistic colleges for you to apply to. It might also pacify them if you or a guidance counselor tell your parents that MAYBE you could look at transferring into a top school after a couple of years in college or that you could possibly go to a top college for grad school. Your parents made a big mistake by not allowing you to leave a magnet school that was a poor fit for you.
I’m sure you have a bright future. There are many wonderful colleges that will be happy to have you, so get those applications going! Maybe it would also pacify your parents if you just sent one or two applications to those top schools that they dream of. Best of luck!</p>

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<p>ali,</p>

<p>They call them ‘reach’ for a reason. If your parents are excited at the prospect of you attending a top school and it interests you, why not apply? At worst they’ll say ‘No’, but you’ll have the satisfaction of not wondering the rest of your life ‘what if’. Take the shot!</p>

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<p>Go ahead and apply to the Ivies, but also apply to more match schools. Surely your parents can see the necessity of applying to what they will consider a few “just in case” schools. And maybe once all the results are in they’ll adjust their expectations.</p>

<p>Frankly, your school record sounds pretty strong to me. I’m not saying you’ll get in at Olde Ivy, because the odds there are so low anyway.</p>

<p>Another thought… if your parents are so gung-ho on a tippy-top college, tell them you need a private college counselor to help you. Perhaps that person could explain the real world to your parents.</p>

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<p>I agree with Loring. Clearly you are a very bright and capable student who has hit a few bumps in the way but is on a good path now. I think you should apply to the colleges which you think would be a good fit for you, looking at all factors. Take some chances in your life, it makes it worth living. Best of luck to you.</p>

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<p>Also, as you contemplate what to write on your personal essays, you might want to consider writing about how you overcame this difficult time. Colleges really like to know how applicants rose above tough situations on their own, lived up to their potential and learned from their mistakes or bad judgment. That often can mitigate an early bad record, especially when it has been so greatly improved recently. Good luck! You sound like a very strong person and a strong candidate!</p>

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<p>I agree with the sentiment of the posters above. If your parents are set on this, and they are footing the bill, there’s no problem applying anyplace. Just so long as you have match and safety schools.</p>

<p>Exactly how unrealistic your parents are being sort of depends on the details of your academic record, such as what exactly is your overall GPA and class rank. You have a good upward trend, which is very helpful.</p>

<p>But you could point them to the Harvard CDS -
<a href=“http://www.provost.harvard.edu/institutional_research/Provost_-_CDS2008_2009_Harvard_for_Web_Clean.pdf[/url]”>http://www.provost.harvard.edu/institutional_research/Provost_-_CDS2008_2009_Harvard_for_Web_Clean.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Your SAT scores (which are of course excellent) just graze the upper 25%. So those are certainly in the running. It’s hard to tell from what you wrote whereabouts you rank.<br>
But it looks like if you aren’t ranked in the top 10% (or certainly the top quarter) your chances are truly like hitting the lottery (maybe harder). You know the story about these top schools, even for kids with completely unblemished records, outstanding ECs in addition to near perfect test scores it is a real stretch. But maybe it would help your parents to see it in black and white.</p>

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<p>It sounds like you’ve matured. Terrific. Here is what you should do. You have great opportunities ahead. Mature a little more. Regret and self-pity are counterproductive and are traits nobody wants to hear about. Take a deep breath. This is your life. YOU own it, YOU have to live it. If you’ve made mistakes, you have to move on. Guess what. You’re going to make more mistake. It’s called being human. Looking forward to YOUR future, where do YOU want it to go from here. </p>

<p>You cannot be happy if your life is all about pleasing your parents. You do not need to please your parents. Become the best person that you can be and be proud of yourself. You should like yourself. Take a cold hard look at your situation and find a range of schools that you could be happy at, from reaches to safeties, and get cracking, it’s late November. I’m sure there is a school out there that you could will be happy with if you would just let yourself be happy and stop beating yourself up. If you look at rankings at all, use them to identify candidate schools, not to evaluate candidate schools. </p>

<p>There are great schools that provide a terrific education that are not THAT difficult to get into. For example, Reed College is ranked low because they don’t cooperate with US News. They accept 41% of their applicants. It’s a brutally hard academic school and a huge fraction of their graduates go on to get a PhD. Getting out is much harder than getting in. </p>

<p>I just point this out because if you take a cold hearted look at your situation, you will see that it’s not bleak at all. </p>

<p>You have demonstrated real promise, so you should be able to do pretty well with college admissions. </p>

<p>If your parents have threatened to withhold funding you for college, or if you feel that they might, you may need to put a good faith effort into applying to some reaches so that your parents are satisfied with your effort. That all ends in 34 days. It’s out of your hands after that. You’ll survive. However, don’t neglect matches and safeties because that’s likely where you are going. </p>

<p>Good luck</p>

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<p>^^^
I like this. I wish I had learned this earlier in my life. Heck, I wish I had a little more of this sort of attitude now. It’s far more important than where your school ranks in USNEWS.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the information and advice. As for my rank, I don’t have one (the school I go to doesn’t rank). My GPA is a 3.5 weighted without factoring in senior year (if that were the case, it would be around 3.9).</p>

<p>inspiredbymusic: I don’t think they should talk with my guidance counselor, I think they’ll both end up telling me to apply to several top colleges. I know better and I just dont want to face the rejections after putting in all that time and money.</p>

<p>loring: if colleges reject valedictorians/2400s all the time, what makes me an appealing candidate for admission?</p>

<p>Lafalum84: I don’t think I’m going to apply to all ivies. That sounds a little ridiculous in my opinion-- shouldn’t one only apply to 1 or 2 ivies that they like the most? The only ivy I was considering applying to was Cornell. Do you know of any colleges that put less weight on gpa or are more holistic? I was thinking about applying to uchicago; I’ve heard they put more weight on the essay and they disregard the writing portion of the sat (thus, I would have a perfect 1600/1600 when applying).</p>

<p>KYParent: thank you.</p>

<p>franglish: I was considering this, but couldn’t it work against me? It shows that I can lose track of school work and get distracted by trivial things like video games.</p>

<p>bovertine: There’s no way I’m showing them that haha. That will just give them more incentive to tell me to apply to amazing schools. My school doesn’t rank, but I’m most likely in the top 25 percent but there’s no real way of being sure of this.</p>

<p>ClassicRockerDad: thanks for all the motivating advice. I am actually considering Reed, it seems like a great school. You tell me to apply to reaches, matches, and safeties, but the difficulty arises from my strange circumstance (high test scores average gpa). Where would one of my caliber consider a match? I’m having a hard time figuring this out.</p>

<p>bovertine: the problem is thar my parents care where the school is ranked in US News…</p>

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<p>

Really? That’s pretty bizarre. Other than the SAT score making you fall in the range, what about that would encourage them? I guess they really know very little about this. This is what’s wrong with the SAT score obsession. THere were kids on the under 3.6 unweighted thread with over 4.0 Weighted GPAs and basically perfect test scores shot down at all the Ivies. Most of these schools probably look first at your grades.</p>

<p>According to the CDS I posted, if you’re not in the top 25% you basically have zero chance of being admitted. Nobody was admitted who wasn’t in the top 25%. Only about 5% of the students are not in the top 10%, and you can be fairly certain many of those students were hooked. So given Harvard has a 7% acceptance rate, and only 5% of those students are not in the top 10%, it’s pretty impossible. </p>

<p>Maybe show them some of the acceptance threads. But primarily, you really have to convince them that you need matches and safeties. Really, I think that even a weighted GPA of 3.9 is virtually impossible at these top 10-15 schools. But if they want to pay, I guess why not? Lightning could strike.</p>

<p>You would probably have a reasonable shot at CMU, Northwestern, places like that. Maybe Cornell, but I think even that is a bit of a reach. Hopefully some of the parents of kids with stats similar to your that went through it last year will read your thread.</p>

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<p>I like what ClassicRocker has to say.</p>

<p>I’m also glad you are being realistic, regardless of your parents. Good luck to you.</p>

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<p>Oh, one quick thing. I think the tech schools are more forgiving of GPA and care more about SAT (I and II). So you might actually have a better shot at a Caltech or MIT. Except for the fact that it seems like you aren’t oriented in that direction.</p>

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<p>Is the cost of going to college a factor? Will your parents be willing to pay full price for a non “top 20” college? Since you are a NMF there are lots of colleges that will give you 1/2 to full tuition scholarships. Schools like USC [ ranked #25] is one and would be considered a match , or perhaps a safety for you- you already qualified there for an automatic 1/2 tuition scholarship, AND if you have your application finished by Dec 1 you may qualify for a full tuition scholarship. My son, a very smart, serious student with similar SAT’s and grades, has found his nitch and people there, and chose it over many higher ranked colleges, including a couple of Ivys and Chicago[ a great scholarship helped] I mention this to show you and perhaps your parents, that smart students have many colleges that can offer them the education they desire.
Tell us what kinds of subjects, and academic areas interest you NOW have-that would help us give you guidance. </p>

<p>And re: this question “if colleges reject valedictorians/2400s all the time, what makes me an appealing candidate for admission?” The one thing that all NON-alumni, NON-athlete recruits, NON-URM, NON DA admits at tip top [ HYPSM and most Ivy’s] colleges share are EXTRAORDINARY accomplishments AND EC’s outside the classroom, as well as being one of the very top students in your class. Great grades and SAT scores are only the first “hoop” a student has to jump through to have a realistic “chance” at those colleges. There are many other great U’s and colleges beyond the USNWR top 20.</p>

<p>FYI, Chicago is one of the top U’s, but grades as well as essays are both important factors for acceptance there. They also want students who have shown a passion for learning, not just smart grinds. They have the Core, similar to Columbia and Reed, and it is above all a place for serious students eager to learn and work hard doing so.</p>

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<p>“loring: if colleges reject valedictorians/2400s all the time, what makes me an appealing candidate for admission?”</p>

<p>Ali,</p>

<p>The point you yourself make here is that there are several candidates that get accepted to top notch schools with less than perfect scores or gpa’s. They admit REAL PEOPLE, not just statistics. </p>

<p>What do YOU have to offer them? That’s entirely up to you to decide. It sounds like you have a lot to offer to me. All I can offer you is that you miss 100% of the shots you never take. What have you got to lose?</p>

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<p>I would venture to say that any school that has an admission rate of 30% or higher is more likely to accept a candidate with a 1600 (M+R) and a 3.5 GPA than to reject them. No guarantees, but just more likely than not. To me that puts them into the match category. </p>

<p>In addition to Reed, Carelton is a very highly ranked school which according to College Board admitted 30% of their applicants. Grinnell and Oberlin admitted 34%. These schools would at least be matches. Given that it’s November 27, I would use public schools that use a numerical criteria for admissions and call them safeties. I know Iowa, Kansas, I think Arizona, Alabama, maybe a few more. I think you would get into the Honors program at Ohio State, but the deadline for that is Dec 1 - not sure if your transcript has to be in by then or not. Pittsburgh has a later deadline. I think Canadian schools would be safeties, perhaps with the exception of McGill which is probably only a match. Once a school admits you, it’s a safety, so a school with rolling admissions would be pretty good. Also, for each one, note the deadlines, because some of the LACs have Jan 15 deadlines, which means you should do the Jan 1 deadlines first. </p>

<p>Hope this helps.</p>

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<p>^ Good recommendations, particularly about the safeties. Even though Carleton, Reed, etc are matches, they are by no means guaranteed. Both DDs had slightly lower test scores but much higher GPAs and were waitlisted; one at Reed, one at Carleton.</p>

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<p>I think of matches as like between 40%-90%. Maybe add a few more likely matches, like Lawrence and Beloit. They show very high SATs so I suspect that they would like someone with very high SATs. I’d put those two closer to the 80-90% range.</p>

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<p>Folks, the GPA is 3.5 <em>weighted.</em> That’s a different scenario than 3.5 UW, though I agree that the steep improvement in grade trend will help.</p>

<p>OP, I’d go back and look at last year’s 3.3-3.6 thread. There are a few of us with kids who are kind of lopsided and got good results. Those kids tended to have very strong applications otherwise (great standardized scores, decent number of AP/IB courses, significant honors or interesting hobbies).</p>

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<p>Counting Down, you are correct, I was thinking 3.5 unweighted. Still I think that hitting a bunch of places on the “degree of difficulty” scale is the right thing to do. Ok, so Carelton might actually be a reach, but not an unreasonable one. But I still think Lawrence and Beloit are very likely, and given his recent performance, I still think Reed and Oberlin are matches, as in flip a coin. If he applies to a range of schools and stays modest looking for good opportunities, I think April will be kind to the OP. The parents might be disappointed, but we’ve moved beyond that to what matters. </p>

<p>I think that the most successful people are the ones that experience failure and pick themselves up again anyway and “get back on the horse”. Many schools will recognize that if he doesn’t shy away from it and try to hide it.</p>