Parents Mucking College choices up for their Child

Parents Forum
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I know we all read and cry over the posts of kids whose parents won't help at all and never let them know ahead of time. Those are the parents deserving of scorn.

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<p>I read this in another thread and just had to vent. </p>

<p>My wife's cousin and their son stayed with us on the way to and from a college tour trip last fall. The subject of price tags at colleges came up with her concern about going to 50K colleges which would be too expensive. I told her that it's not the retail price that really matters it's the discounted price after any merit or grant aid - the result being that sometimes a private school can be even cheaper to attend than a public school. She looked at me like I had two heads so I gave her examples of the financial aid offered to my older son. Hearing the specifics seemed to get the point across. </p>

<p>Moving forward to late January. I saw the cousin at a party and (knowing that her son's favorite schools were private) asked how she was doing pulling together the CSS Profile. She remarked that she felt that getting all the financial info together was her full time job right now. Seemed a bit dramatic,but I let it go. </p>

<p>Flash forward to acceptances. My wife gets the call from her cousin saying that her son got into his top choices but that the financial packages were disappointing. My wife is astonished and suggests they call the financial offices to find out why. </p>

<p>About two weeks later, my wife attends a party and saw her cousin. Concerned about the son she asked if there was any follow-up on the financial packages. The cousin said that she called both colleges and they said that they didn't have the resources to offer anything better to them. Technically, that was true but was a flat-out avoidance of the real truth. My wife then sees the son and congratulates him on his acceptances. He thanks her but says he probably won't be attending those schools as parents (married, living together) did not submit the CSS Profile on time to be considered for need-based aid. He said, that his parents told him that he could go to those schools but the cost/debt was strictly on him. </p>

<p>Wow. I really don't mind a parent that tells a kid (up front) that any college expenses are on them. I feel sorry for kids that are taken around to schools that they fall in love with when the subject of college finances are only discussed after the fact. Sure, it hurts more when you know a family has a large disposable income that hasn't saved dime one for their kids ... it is harder to swallow then some disadvantaged family. But, still, college is not an obligation one is owed so my values need not be another person's values. </p>

<p>Where I REALLY draw the line on though is parents with large disposable incomes that muck up their kid's financial college options because they couldn't get their act together and then don't shoulder that portion of the grant aid that they cost their child. In essence, 'hey kid, tough luck, every penny is on you.' How do they sleep at night? </p>

<p>End result is a really super kid with straight A's is going to a college so far off the radar that it doesn't even have a sub-forum here at CC.</p>

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<p>Stuff happens. Those are just lousy parents.</p>

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<p>I agree, it’s heartbreaking. </p>

<p>My son’s BFF lives next door. They’ve been friends since diapers and BFF is like a son to me. His parents, however, are clueless. You’d think by now (third child) they’d understand about fin aid deadlines and how difficult it is for adults to navigate the process, not to mention the kids. Yet they continue to expect the kids to line up all necessary paperwork without any parental assistance. Then they complain on and on about how disappointed they are that Kid got something wrong or late and now they have to take out PLUS loans for full pay. </p>

<p>Helloooo, maybe if you participated in the process you could have saved a little money. A 16 year-old is hardly equipped to singlehandedly do the FAFSA and Profile correctly.</p>

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<p>Parents muck things up all the time. There are parents who won’t even let their kids apply to schools where they would get aid or merit because the rankings aren’t high enough.</p>

<p>Or, there are parents that refuse to tell the kids how much they’ll pay, only to deliver the bad news after acceptances are in.</p>

<p>If I were the OP, I would have a hard time not letting the parents know that I know that they didn’t submit the paperwork on time.</p>

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<p>What about parents who muck up their kids attending college AT ALL.</p>

<p>Honestly, the entire process is just way out of some people’s comfort zone. I tried working with a friend whose daughter had stellar grades, decent scores and was a well-rounded kid. I showed my friend the FAFSA website. Gave her examples of scholarship/aid packages that are common. Her response? Why would we send our daughter to an expensive (in their world, in-state tuition is “expensive”) college when she “doesn’t even know what she wants to do.” The girl is attending a local community college on the grandparents’ dime and living at home. All her friends left. She is miserable and bored in the cc classes.</p>

<p>I saw the friend last week and asked where her daughter would be attending next year. This girl has straight-A’s from community college and would now qualify for a full scholarship from one of the 4-year commuter colleges close by. But they don’t want to bother applying because she’s doing “just fine” at the little community college.</p>

<p>But they’re really excited because the girl’s boss is increasing her hours at her minimum-wage job for the summer.</p>

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<p>Just a little defense of the parents the OP mentioned. I have relatives just like those parents. The mom, in my story, is an incredibly smart person, but I really think she has a serious case of ADHD. Everything is overwhelming for her. The original FAFSA was late and had some mistakes on it and had to be redone. Also too proud to ask for outside help. Child wound up taking a gap year so that she might get more $$ one year later. </p>

<p>The mom is an incredibly loving and caring person and only wants the best for her daughter. </p>

<p>Adults have issues too. It’s too bad their kids often feel the consequences.</p>

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<p>I can’t really get too judgmental about those parents, ctyankee. We lost our kid a chance at a $5000 scholarship because we misunderstood the web page and missed a deadline. The whole admissions/FA process can be pretty overwhelming for people who are also working and raising children. My wife had to pretty much drop everything and put her clients on hold for a week to get the Profile in on time–but at least she is a freelancer who <em>could</em> put her clients on hold. Not everybody is in that position. All things considered I feel very fortunate that that one scholarship deadline was the only major thing we screwed up along the way, and when I read your story I just feel bad for everybody involved.</p>

<p>One thing that confuses me about your original post, though: if these parents have “large disposable incomes” then on what basis did they suppose that they were going to get substantial need-based FA?</p>

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<p>It’s a parental choice whether to provide their personal financial information so universities can determine an EFC for students.</p>

<p>Some parents have very good reasons for keeping their financial information private. And it’s the parents choice.</p>

<p>One good reason is the school might determine the parents EFC is much more than the parents are willing to pay. For example, the school might decide that the parents can afford to pay $35k a year while they are only willing to pay $10k a year toward school. Having the school tell the student that their parents should pay $35k yearly when the parents are unwilling to only creates tension. Not filling out the forms in this case would likely cause less tension.</p>

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<p>This happens more times than many people think. Parents can’t or won’t fill out the forms on time or at all.</p>

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<p>That’s true, but it never ceases to amaze me that parents who stress the cost of attendance so highly then forget to fill out financial aid forms…I can understand not being able to take the time off to do it, and I can understand if the mother in the OP’s post was feeling embarrassed that she had not filled out the Profile, but I think to stress a kid out like that about finances and then not actually fill out the forms is unfair to said kid.</p>

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<p>In any case I do commend you for explaining that private schools and out-of-state public schools could be cheaper when aid is factored in and should be looked at. When my son applied to schools he was only interested in one of our larger in-state public schools so the task was easy. At the time my daughter figured she should only focus on in-state-public schools to take advantage of Florida’s Bright Future Program. I also thought in-state public was the only option until I started looking at NMF awards at other schools and then I learned how many opportunities academically strong kids can have, if they only spent some time doing a little research. As a high school teacher I now strongly advise interested students to not hesitate to look beyond in-state public if they have strong numbers or other special attributes. Now, I am realistic in telling them that they can’t expect college on a silver platter, but they might find they have more opportunities than originally anticipated.</p>

<p>It is a shame that the OP’s family member wasn’t able to fulfill his dream and there probably is more to the story than what he has been told, but in any case I am sure if this child is a really strong student he will find a way to shine at his school. I do hope this young man will be another success story on another “I conquered the world after attending a third tier college” thread. :)</p>

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<p>I agree that we really may not know the whole story here.</p>

<p>First of all, are we sure the family would qualify for need-based aid, especially if they have a “large disposable income” as the OP says? Perhaps they know that their income is too high, and they don’t want the son to know. (Just speculating here.) Often, people think that filling out forms such as FAFSA and CSS profile is an invasion of privacy, and if they know they won’t qualify for need-based aid, why fill out the forms?</p>

<p>Second, why didn’t the kid qualify for merit aid? Usually no FAFSA or CSS profile has to be filed in order to receive merit aid. (Yes, I know that there are exceptions, colleges that tie merit to need.)</p>

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<p>One point raised above rings true. The EFC determined by a school does not necessarily match what a particular family feels is in its interests to pay. Even for involved parents and a well-informed child, that can be a potential point of confusion.</p>

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<p>There are services that do all this paperwork for $400.00. Yes, that’s some change, but minimal in the scheme of college financing.</p>

<p>A former friend of mine said, “DD didn’t really want to go to those colleges. She didn’t even fill out the FAFSA. She must have wanted to stay home.”</p>

<p>Arghh! How can kids do this? They aren’t privy to this info.</p>

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<p>The CC community is an unusual community of parents and excellent students dedicated to getting into the best possible schools with the best possible aid. I do not think the parents on this forum are typical parents of high school seniors. Most parents are considerably less knowledgeable about applications and aid. Many parents expect their children to handle the whole process themselves. This, in my opinion, does not make them lousy parents. (Although, I think it is unfair for parents to refuse to provide the financial information students need to complete FAFSA/CSS)</p>

<p>I do not think the amount of energy parents dedicate to their children’s college search is a measure of love. And I think it is very fair of parents to insist that the kids handle the themselves as a demonstration of the kid’s maturity and ability to handle the rigors of college work.</p>

<p>When I was applying for school, nobody had their parents involved other than asking “what can we afford?” The guidance counselor assisted students with their scholarship/aid applications.</p>

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<p>When I was applying to colleges my parents gave no input into my choices or looked into the finances at all. They left the financial aid applications up to me and I messed up. So instead of attending the out of state private, I went to an in state public.</p>

<p>It was just a continuation of my entire upbringing. They never took an interest in my school work or anything like that. They weren’t the worst parents, but were very caught up in their own life issues. I was very self sufficient, so they pretty much left everything up to me.</p>

<p>There are all kinds of parents out there. I can’t say I had the best upbringing, but in a way I am kind of glad I preceded advent of the neurotic, helicopter type parent.</p>

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<p>We have a relatively simple financial life, and I still found the Profile process rather daunting, particularly with respect to some of the specific questions some of the colleges add on – what specific date - mm/dd/yy did you buy each car? what was the purchase price? – my car is ten years old, and has been paid off for six years. It probably took me an hour to dig through ancient history and find the purchase document, and that was just for one item. Trying to figure out how to handle the deduction from salary that was put into a company-sponsored HSA took hours more, in part because the instructions seem to have been written by someone who had, once upon a time, heard of an HSA in a dream. And, I had to do all of this weeks before our W2s and the like showed up in the mail. It was pretty ugly, and I’m not usually daunted by things like this. I like doing my taxes. But in most ways, the Profile form was a lot worse.</p>

<p>That doesn’t excuse the parents completely, but I do understand how it could really overwhelm some families. I’m always impressed with some of the kids on CC who manage to get all of this paperwork done for their families – I don’t think my kid could have done it.</p>

<p>None of this excuses</p>

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<p>I almost mucked up daughters college ed by suggesting she might want to go to Tufts D-3 where she would probably be an All American v. Cornell D-1 where she wouldn’t always start. Never mind Tufts didn’t really have the major she wanted! Lucky she didn’t listen to me. Of course, I didn’t really think her major was practical, of course she proved me wrong and has been happily working for 10 years! Then I did even worse with S1- brilliant math student, suggested he major in Engineering even though he said he never wanted to build anything. So I said “Engineering Physics” and he almost dropped out. Lucky he got into something more math oriented and with all his APs was still able to graduate in 4 years and has been happily working with 5. So… with S2 I’m trying (trying!) not to say too much as far as majors go, but have to mention the financial realities. S1 has never mentioned the Engineering Physics debacle, but S2 would, so I have to be extra careful. Now all this is even after I picked a pretty stupid major myself, something practical of course and left after 2 years. Then I had to put myself through school a few years later. GPA almost double btw since I was paying! But I’m all over the financial aid forms :slight_smile: I can whip out a FAFSA or CSS Profile in a couple of hours.</p>

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<p>Not trying to defend the parents, but the kid could do the paperwork if they were really moved to. I did my parents taxes so I could file the FASFA on time and did our Profile as well. It was hard, yes, but it was possible. The parents should have done more, but the kid could have stepped in</p>

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<p>I don’t see how a family with a “large disposable income” could possibly qualify for much need based aid. It kind of sounds to me like a family that doesn’t qualify for much in the way of aid being badgered over a period of month’s by their cousin’s husband, who is intent on raising the stakes in terms of intra-family competition for prestige. </p>

<p>What’s wrong with a kid attending their in-state public, anyway? </p>

<p>If I was in a position where I didn’t think I would qualify for much financial aid and had told my kids to concentrate their college aspirations on our in-state publics or lower ranked private schools where they stood a good chance of merit aid … and then I had some member of my extended family trying to run a guilt trip on me over our personal family choices… I’d be pretty ticked off. </p>

<p>My d. is graduating from a very prestigious, elite private school; her first cousin who attended a public school magnet program for gifted kids is living at home and attending their local community college. She says she plans to transfer to the state U after she finishes CC. I’'ve kept my mouth shut. Some of the most responsible and capable kids I know get their degrees that way – my niece is no exception. </p>

<p>My daughter is lucky that I was willing to put so much of my savings and borrow so much to make her dream of a private school over 4 years, and that we were also able to qualify for a significant discount off of the sticker price via grant money. I don’t feel the need to gloat over my sacrifices and her good fortune when hanging out with the relatives.</p>