Parents - Need advice with D

Parents Forum
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<p>I have a (step)daughter that I need to as a few questions about. She is wrapping up her sophomore year. She is top 10% at what is probably and average suburban HS, with the maxed out load of honors classes with the exception of math. Next year she has AP Chem, AP Eng, Honors Physics, etc. In middle school she was a top 5% student, but does a lot of ECs so far in HS and that has hurt her some with her GPA. She has historically been in the upper 90s percentile-wise on standardized tests that are typically given, most recently for her in 8th grade. </p>

<p>This past fall, her whole class took the PSATs and she only scored 46,46, 42. She said later that she was somewhat confused on parts and wound up making a lot of educated guesses with time running out, most of which were apparently wrong. There really wasn't a lot of warning and not many people in the school got a chance to prep at all. Plus my mother who lived next door to us and who was very close to her passed away the week before after a long battle with cancer.</p>

<p>Here's the question. Should I encourage her to maybe take the ACT this spring at the end of the school year to kind of get a foothold on that? I think she is more likely to do well on the ACT than SAT based on my limited knowledge of the tests. Her guidance counselor at school who has been fantastic to her thinks she should wait, take the PSAT in the fall, then take the ACT and SAT in the spring of the junior year. I think that she is down about the PSAT and taking the ACT at the end of the year while she is finishing up Bio2 and Honors Chem and it is still fresh in her mind would be a good starting point and maybe give her a little confidence for next year. I would only have her scores come home and not get reported directly anywhere yet.</p>

<p>Her college goals are not clear yet. She would be a major reach for any of the ivies and I don't think she has any interest in them anyway. She wants to be in track in college, and would likely not be super competitive at D1. She should be very competitive in D3, possibly D2. We live in western PA and the schools I see her interested in that would be slight reaches to matches are Juniata, Hiram and Marietta with maybe Dickinson as a reach, depending on SAT/ACTs. Safeties maybe one of the state schools in PA or Pitt-Johnstown (all D2), possibly Bethany or PSU-Behrend in D3. I think the closeness of a smaller school in the <2500 size would be what she would want. She is not one of the popular clique types, but is very gregarious. She loves to be involved.</p>

<p>As a side note, what are colleges general feelings towards visits by sophomores say over this summer? I'd like her to have a decent idea of where she would like to apply by the end of her junior year. We have a lot of younger kids too and it will be hard to visit schools during the school year. If we could visit over the summer even informally at some, that would be great, but some websites leave us feeling like we really might not be welcome until she's at least a junior.</p>

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<p>I may be wrong, but I don't think that you can take the PSATs more than once. Your D should probably be thinking of taking the SAT I or the ACT in the fall and then SAT IIs in the spring. She could also take an SAT II in a science this spring if she was interested and was enrolled in a science this year.</p>

<p>As for college visits, both kids visited a school beginning spring of or summer after sophomore year just to get a sense of what was involved. To get a good feel of fit, though, visiting when classes are in session is important.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>You can take the PSATs in both sophomore year and junior year of high school. NMF is based on your junior year score.</p>

<p>And I think rising junior summer and onwards are all okay times to visit.</p>

<p>Remember to have fun!!</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>Father, I can only say what we are doing.</p>

<p>My son has always had a checkered academic career, and is an average student at best. He is a soph like your daughter.
Freshman year (his school gives the PLAN and PSAT to fresh, sophs and juniors) he did about average on the PSAT, and a little better than we expected on the PLAN, not super, but we were excited for him. This year when we got his scores we were appalled, his PSAT had gone down a little bit, this was not unexpected, his sister, who had excellent scores, did the same, but his PLAN score was awful, absolutely awful. We thought about hand scoring, going to the guidance counselor in hysterics, etc. But we finally decided to have him take the ACT without writing as soon as possible.</p>

<p>If his ACT score is closer to his original PLAN, then we will put this off as a fluke, I think that he has gotten the point, if this was just a case of blowing off what to him is a meaningless test. If his ACT score is close to the soph one, then he will have to make some hard decisions, because he will basically be unadmittable, and will have to make some major changes to ever go to college - yes his score was that bad, not single digits, but pretty close.</p>

<p>We thought about adding the writing portion, so that, if by some miracle he makes a 25, he could be finished testing, but in the end, we didn't want to put more pressure on this kid than he is feeling.</p>

<p>By the way, he has always had wildly fluctuating subscores on standardized tests, although the last sets in middle school showed him to have greatly settled down into the low 80 percentile, so we were hoping that he would make it through the ACT OK, maybe not.</p>

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<p>Only the PSAT taken in junior year counts for the National Merit designation, but it is perfectly OK to take the test as a sophomore. In fact, given her scores, I think you've discovered that either timed tests are not one of her strengths, or her HS has not propared her well for college level work. That is important to know at this point; she could probably benefit a great deal by doing an SAT prep course over the summer. </p>

<p>As for college visits, try to find a way to visit a school she has in which expressed a sincere interest. Since she's an athlete, she has probably been on or near some of the local campuses (or will be when she runs for the varsity team.) That makes a quick visit easier. </p>

<p>Talk to the parents of her friends and teammates - if they are visiting a school, let your daughter go along. (The kids like having a friend for comparing notes.) Visiting during the school year is important, but not essential. Try to arrange all the visits during her off-season, when her extra energy can be channeled into thinking about colleges.</p>

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<p>Sounds like one of my daughters escaped at a young age and ended up at your house! (LOL) OK, Step #1, take a deep breath and recognize that those scores are most likely an aberration. Step #2, get ahold of the PSAT scoresheet and look for screwy patterns (see below). Step #3, purchase one of the many PSAT prep books that contain actual PSAT/ACT tests.</p>

<p>My D had a problem skipping a question in the booklet but not on the answer sheet, the result being that ALL questions below that point were scored wrong. Fortunately she cleaned up this problem before taking the tests that counted. Practice tests revealed one or two conceptual problems that she cleared up between the sophomore year PSAT and Spring Junior year SAT tests.</p>

<p>Good luck to your D. With her academic history I'm sure things will work out fine.</p>

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<p>Taking the ACT this spring may be a good idea to see where she scores, especially if she is interested in running track in college. Look at the NCAA website. They have a guide for athletes about college recruiting and eligibility. She can contact the coachs and meet them on campus. They can't contact her till after her junior year, but can respond to contact she initiates.</p>

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<p>"You can take the PSATs in both sophomore year and junior year of high school. NMF is based on your junior year score."</p>

<p>You can take it in freshman year, too, but the scores are compared to sophomores on the individual subjects and juniors for the complete score, so you necessarily get a great picture. My daughter is required to take the PSAT in freshman, sophomore and junior year, this is how we know.</p>

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<p>One of the things that the miserable test evaluates is your ability to concentrate for an extended period of time. During practice sessions, my son found that concentration issues caused a drop of at least 50 points per section. If the death of a beloved grandmother did not cause problems with focus, I would be a bit surprised.</p>

<p>In some ways, taking the PSAT as a sophomore is actually a good thing as it is a 'free shot' -doesn't count for nms, does matter for college admissions. I think that you need to emphasize this to your D. I would guess that her Junior PSAT will be well into the 500's with no prep: she will have an additional year of education and maturity, and hopefully no family crisis.</p>

<p>Given her experience with the PSAT, I would not suggest taking the ACT cold. If she spends a bit of time with it over the summer, and is familiar with the form of the test, she is less likely to be spooked by the wretched thing.</p>

<p>The colleges that you mention all sound appropriate, and would be fun to visit. </p>

<p>Also, here is a link to a list of colleges that do not emphasize standardized testing:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.fairtest.org/optinit.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.fairtest.org/optinit.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Father05,
I think taking the ACT is a good idea. If she does significantly better than her PSAT score, then you can focus all your energy on ACT prep. You are correct in planning not to put her high school down to receive scores. My s took ACT once at end of sophomore year and once at beginning of junior year and was done. Our idea was to have an idea of which standardized test he would do better at. If ACT had been low and PSAT high, he would have taken SAT. He took PSAT as a freshman (required at his school) and as a junior. Your daughter doesn't have anything to lose by taking the ACT to see how she does.</p>

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<p>As a poster above said the PSAT taken in fall of the junior year is the only one that counts for consideration of National Merit scholarships. If the possibility of qualifying for NMF is important to you then Oct of her Junior year is the only time she can take it for that. If she decides to do it there are prep books out there that she could work on and do some practice tests that would make her more comfortable with the timing and format.</p>

<p>SAT and/or ACT are more important for actual college apps (which do not ask for your PSAT score). Most school accept either but you would need to check. Some kids do better on one than the other. There are also prep books out there for those. For the ACT most kids on the ACT CC board seem to recommend the Princeton Review book for tips on how to approach the test together with the Real ACT which contains 3 real retired ACT tests for practice. Timing seems to be a real issue on the ACT so taking at least a couple of practice tests timed is important. Doing a bit of prep work before whichever test she decides will help her nerves a little as she will know what to expect going in.</p>

<p>
[quote]
taking the ACT at the end of the year while she is finishing up Bio2 and Honors Chem and it is still fresh in her mind would be a good starting point and maybe give her a little confidence for next year. I would only have her scores come home and not get reported directly anywhere yet.

[/quote]

The science part of the ACT is not really based on what they have learned in science. It is more of a test of their ability to read and to interpret charts and graphs. So having bio and chem fresh in her mind wont really help. In fact if she goes into the ACT expecting her science knowledge to help her it might knock her confidence down a bit more. The first time my D took the ACT she got a 22 on science which was considerably below any other section of the test and shocked her and us as she was good in science. But after doing the prep books she brought it up to a 29. In her case she found the stratergies and tips from the prep books helped her increase her English (went from her worst score on 1st try to her best the last), increased her science, made little difference on Math and actually made her Reading worse.</p>

<p>I think your idea of her taking the ACT this summer is a good one - if she has time to do a little prep work and a couple of practice tests. If she goes in totally unprepared and not knowing what to expect it could knock her confidence down more. The timing on the ACT is what kills most kids.</p>

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<p>I too think this is an abberation on her testing. I do not expect her to be a NM scholar, but I think that 170-180 is within reason for next fall's PSAT. She is in general a pretty decent writer for her grade, she's already taken creative writing, but she probably was taken aback a little by the format along with all that was going on at the time. </p>

<p>I should also say that my stepS is a freshman this year at an LAC in OH and doing fine depsite a mild LD and abysmal test scores to go with OK but rising HS grades. He found a school that fit him and is an athlete as well, so we've been through the clearinghouse, talking with coaches, etc. His school does not compete with any of the schools that are on her likely candidates, so we haven't seen any of them and will probably road trip a little this summer. I felt like we started late in his college search, although things worked out. I don't want to wait too far in for her.</p>

<p>I guess I will leave it up to her on the ACT, although I am leaning towards taking it coming off chem and bio. If she does poorly, it confirms a problem, if she does well, then she can relax.</p>

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<p>scm,</p>

<p>I do remember now reading that before about the ACT science somewhere.</p>

<p>I think I will ask her tonight if she wants to try some prep and a couple of practice tests to see if she wants to sign up for the real thing in June.</p>

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<p>If I recall the test knocks off points for wrong answers, but not for unfinished ones. I vaguely remember my kids being told if you don't know, don't guess, leave it blank. Your D might have hurt her score by trying to guess a few through. Any one else know for sure?</p>

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<p>SAT definitely does knock off points for wrong answers (something like a quarter point). ACT does not. PSAT - I don't honestly know but as it is a mini SAT I think it probably does.</p>

<p>Went and checked on the web site. Scoring for PSAT 1 point for correct answer, 0 for no answer, -.25 for incorrect answer.</p>

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<p>Yes, on average, guessing is the same as not answering. If you can eliminate one or two, the percentages say to go for it. The problem is you are dealing with such a small sample size that the law of averages might not get a chance to be fulfilled.</p>

<p>ACT is right answers only count, no penalty for wrong answers.</p>

<p>She did answer all but one question on the PSAT.</p>

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<p>My S's PSAT scores went up nearly 40 points when he retook the test as a junior and the same thing happened when he retook the SAT. Some kids just do better the second time around.</p>

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<p>I would suggest doing a review course with Kaplan. They have a specific course that is prep for PSAT + SAT. You do the PSAT prep in the summer ~ AUG. SAT prep you do before you plan on taking the SAT - later in your junior year. Taking the time to practice the test and having an instructor go through the logic behind a question does make a difference. We did this for both my sons and it did make a difference.</p>

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<p>Not to be contrary, but I know of NO colleges that look at PSAT scores. The only reason my son took PSAT was to practice for the SAT. He's a great test-taker but I knew the odds of getting NMF are beyond remote. PSAT is a nice way to get on college mailing lists, but I can't imagine spending money to prep for a test the colleges aren't even going to consider for admissions!</p>

<p>I am sure that the death of her grandmother had a great effect on your daughter's ability to concentrate on the PSAT. Based on what you said about her grades and rank, she'll do fine on the SAT. Also, an increasing number of colleges are going SAT-optional, including some high-level schools, and even those that do consider the SAT will tell you that board scores are not nearly as important as a strong transcript.</p>

<p>I wouldn't worry about your daughter's PSAT score. To me, it's a non-issue.</p>

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<p>father05 - I'll repeat some info I've posted elsewhere. Some SAT prep servies provide diagnostic tests - actual practice SAT tests that they then score, and break downt he answers to see where the weakness lie. </p>

<p>It benefitted my son immenstely, and he received some tutoring to cover the weak areas. I would recommend NOT using the SATs to figure out you have an issue in one or more areas. Call around and get the diagnostics done. We happened to use Huntingdon Learning to do this, and they were quite professional.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>