Parents of CC, help me decide before Jan 1!

Parents Forum
1

<p>So I just typed a whole long (probably tl;dr) post explaining the minutiae of my dilemma, but then Google Chrome or someone ate it up and I don't have the patience to do so again. So I'll put it in short.
I have the choice between Colleges A+, B and X (in alphabetical order according to how much I want to go).
College A+ is a private, quite decently ranked university (but no Ivy). I was just notified that I have received a 30k scholarship to their honors college toward their 37k tuition and fees. I need to respond back by January 1st.
College B is the highly regarded honors college to a not-very-highly-regarded public university system. If I get in, I can go for free- but I won't find out whether or not I'm accepted until long after January 1st. (It has other problems that I won't get into, but it IS my second choice. It's just that it's free and still good quality education, so it's eating me up, but it's also nowhere near a sure thing.)
College X (last and most certainly least) is more like a trade school than a college and is really quite poor in the education department. It's basically the default for most people I know, though apparently the honors program, where I applied, is decently better, though not close to stellar. (They have a painfully low med school acceptance rate, and med school is one of my dreams right now.) The carrot? It's free, guaranteed. I'm already in the college, I already have a 7k scholarship, and unless I start cursing out the admissions person when I have my interview this week, I'm almost definitely in the honors program on a full scholarship.
My parents told me that while they'll pay my dorm fees no matter where I go, if I choose College A+, I'll be paying the tuition differential. This makes sense to me, as if I have the opportunity to get something for free and I pick something that costs money, how can I ask my parents to cover it for me? I'm just too nervous to throw away College A+ and wait it out on College B (I'm a terrible gambler- I'm apparently the worst blackjack and poker player my dad has ever trained) and College X is basically my nightmare scenario right now.
I just feel like a spoiled brat for feeling that way... such first world problems...
In some ways I feel like I should take the money and run, but then I feel also like it's selling myself short. But also, as a teenager, this would be my first time dealing with things like huge loans and stuff like that, and it's hard for me to comprehend taking out 20k worth of loans.
If it helps, there is a lot more detail behind each situation that's helping me come to conclusions about each school, but just on face value, I have no idea what to do.
I'm obviously still talking to my parents about it, but an outside perspective is always nice.
We will be looking into fin aid at College A+, but we probably won't get any. The problem is, just because we don't qualify for aid doesn't mean that my parents have the money to spend on this kind of thing. Oh well.
Thanks so much!</p>

<p>ETA: wow, I said this was gonna be short? sorry....
to put it in perspective, my other one was longer. i guess it's just a good thing that that one didn't go through...</p>

2

<p>Will you know what you’ll get for financial aid from college A+ prior to January 1? If so, I would wait and see if you receive FA before you make your decision. You might find that you qualify for FA and be pleasantly surprised by how much you receive.</p>

<p>My daughter attends a private university and it is less out-of-pocket for us than our state flagship and we are middle class.</p>

3

<p>I think it is acceptable to not take a gamble on college B and accept college A. If you are accepted at college B, and you choose to go there, you would withdraw from college A and you would lose your deposit there.</p>

<p>I’m assuming you didn’t apply binding ED to college A, because if you did, you must accept it unless there are certain circumstances, like financial issues, what would be acceptable reasons for breaking the agreement.</p>

<p>However, it happens frequently that a student accepts a position at college Y by the deasdline, but is still on the waitlist for college Z. If college Z offers him/her a spot later, he can break the agreement with college Y and lose the deposit. What is not allowed is holding two spots at once.</p>

<p>So, I would not take a gamble on college B, because you just never know. Accept college A for now, see what happens. If it becomes a choice between A and B, then you will deal with that when you know. It seems that the differences between college A and X are significant and that you would prefer A or B.</p>

<p>Why the early deadline for college A? Usually if it isn’t binding, the deadline isn’t so early. Many people want to compare financial aid before deciding.</p>

4

<p>MSNDIS: I’m pretty sure you can only apply for fin aid using the FAFSA from the year of admission- meaning that Jan 1 is going to be the first time I can practically check on the FAFSA.
I could use this year’s FAFSA just to check, but practically speaking, while I can contact their office to ask for an estimate, I won’t get a concrete answer until long after I’ll have locked in (or not…).
The problem is that my siblings and I go to private school, so even though my dad has a good job, we’re not exactly going to Tahiti on vacations or anything. My mom is actually a freelancer working several jobs right now. We’re quite comfortable but pretty much right at the limit. Truthfully, even if my parents told me that they would cut back on something (though on what?) and pay for it, I’d feel immensely guilty. It’s not their problem if I reject the free option…</p>

5

<p>op wrote the following</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I would take college A because if you don’t commit to the scholarship by Jan 1, you will lose it. You can just hold your place, pay your room deposit (which is refundable) and relax knowing that you have an option that will pay most of your tuition. If you did not apply ED, the school cannot force an admission decision before May 1. The 7 k remaining can be handled with a $5500 direct loan (provided you file the FAFSA), leaving you with $1500 to make up (you can get an afterschool /summer job to pay this off).</p>

<p>If Option B comes through ad the money is good, then you can always withdraw from option A before May 1 and choose option B</p>

6

<p>Pennylane: I applied EA to College A+. The acceptance is binding only if I choose to accept the scholarship. If I do accept it, they require me to withdraw other applications. While theoretically I could choose not to, I feel that it’s not ethical. In addition, it apparently also reflects badly on me to College B should I choose not to do so- I don’t want to find myself kicked out of College A+ AND College B if I were conceivably to do that…
In theory, I could accept the honors college acceptance and defer the scholarship decision until RD, giving me space to see what would happen with College B, but that’s an even bigger gamble as the reason why I applied EA is the scholarship and if I drop it now I’ll probably lose it. There’s a chance I’d keep it (or at least keep a lower one) but it’s unlikely.</p>

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<p>sybbie: Per what I said to Pennylane, if I take the scholarship, I’m stuck with it and I don’t have a chance to go after College B. I should have made that MUCH more clear in my OP.
For the 7k, I will probably take out loans and get a job. I know that that is what I’ll have to do, but I’m still deliberating over whether it’s worth it- as a high school senior who hasn’t really had a lot of experience with “big” money and commitments like that, it’s a bit scary to sign off on that. I’m still deliberating over whether it’s worth it. It’s 1000% an option though. I’m going to need my parents support (emotionally/intellectually, if not financially) before I sign off on those loans, though…</p>

8

<p>They’re going to give you about 120,000 dollars, and you have to pay 28,000 amortized over how ever many years, probably about 300 dollars a month when you start repayment, and by then you’ll be making about 4000 plus dollars a month, net? Does that sound right? Just thinking out loud.</p>

9

<p>Hannah,</p>

<p>What school is this. As I stated, they can impose a deadline to take the scholarship, but they cannot force a commitment to attend, unless you have applied ED or some other binding program before may 1. If the school is forcing you to commit,it is a violation. You should contact NACAC about this and copy the Director/Dean of the Office of Admission at the school in question.</p>

<p>NACAC Statement of Principles of Good Practice Mandatory Practices states:</p>

<p>

</a></p>

10

<p>The school is Yeshiva University.
(If you know about it, that should explain a lot. If not, it doesn’t really matter. [If you don’t like it, just PM me. This isn’t the place for that kind of discussion, and I have reasons behind my choices.])
PBVS: This scholarship applies for 4 years if I choose to be there for that long, but as I will be doing a gap year program which will get me a year’s worth of credit, I will only be there three years. (My parents are paying for the gap year.) Therefore the debt will be about 21k. I have no idea how much I’ll be making, but I definitely plan on getting some kind of a job whether as a tutor or a lab assistant (if that’s even possible)- however, I can’t count on earning a specific amount. I can hope, but…
sybbie: It is a binding program, theoretically. Basically, if you get a full scholarship (not offered this year, though) it is considered ED. If you get a partial scholarship, you can either take it and it’s like ED or leave it. I actually think I was mistaken about being able to take the acceptance and not the scholarship, for what that’s worth- all I can do, looking at the website again, is reapply for the RD deadline.
Maybe they really can’t prevent me from keeping my application in elsewhere, but if I find out that that’s the case I’ll do something about it. At this stage in the game I’ll assume they’re right and that it’s unethical to back out once I’ve signed my confirmation form.</p>

11

<p>Hannah,</p>

<p>I think that you are reading this incorrectly.</p>

<p>the school states the following:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Accepting an offer of admission to another school and enrolling (matriculating at a school and taking classes) are 2 separate things. You can still accept the scholarship, but you will not be enrolled anywhere until next fall.</p>

12

<p>Wow, you looked that up… just WOW. You’re awesome.
:slight_smile:
However, you’re looking at the wrong thing on the site. The part that concerns me is: </p>

<p>Acceptance into the Honors Program and offer of a top-tier scholarship ($30,000)</p>

<p>Students offered admission to the Honors Program together with a top-tier scholarship will have the choice to accept their scholarship as binding or reject the scholarship. Students who reject the scholarship will be considered again for scholarship amounts in the Spring and can receive an offer for the same or different scholarship amounts but are not bound by agreement to withdraw applications and are free to apply elsewhere. Students who accept the top-tier scholarship agree to:</p>

<p>Make no further college applications
Withdraw any other existing applications to other colleges
Enroll at Yeshiva University’s New York campus for the Fall 2014 semester or the Fall semester immediately following post-high-school Torah study. Torah study may be pursued for more than one year, but must be in full year (not single semester) increments.
Students who reject the scholarship will be considered again for scholarship amounts in the Spring and can receive an offer for the same or different scholarship amounts but are not bound by agreement to withdraw applications and are free to apply elsewhere.</p>

<p>Parenthetically, in the end I was right, and I wouldn’t need to reapply to be reconsidered for a scholarship RD time, but it’s still a HUGE risk.
Either way, according to this, they require you to withdraw other applications if you accept the scholarship.
I did know this going in.
It’s funny, because in a weird way, my friend, who got accepted but with her scholarship decision deferred until RD, has it better than I do because she now has the opportunity to look for other scholarships. I definitely don’t regret applying early, though.</p>

13

<p>Have you talked about this with your parents? </p>

<p>are you comfortable attending this school and leaving everything else behind? </p>

<p>Are you OK with having to maintain a 3.6 gpa, to keep your scholarship?</p>

<p>is it your number one first choice?</p>

<p>How many other applications do you have out?</p>

<p>consider asking Yeshiva about the “fine print” before committing</p>

<p>Is it automatically renewable for the next 4 years?</p>

<p>Is it attached to staying with a specific major?</p>

<p>Is it renewable for the same amount of money each year?</p>

<p>Is scholarship adjusted to take into consideration tuition increases (about 5% per year)</p>

<p>Is there a gpa requirement needed to keep getting the money?</p>

<p>When does the gpa requirement start (by the end of fall term or the end of spring term)?</p>

<p>Is there a phase in to the gpa requirement?</p>

<p>What happens if you do not meet gpa requirement, does money leave immediately or is there a grace period?</p>

<p>If you lose scholarship and bring your grades back up is money reinstated?</p>

<p>What percentage of students lose their scholarship?</p>

<p>Ask the financial aid office what percent of students lose their merit money in the first year.</p>

<p>And the most important question… worse case scenario if you were to lose the scholarship would you still be able to swing the cost of attending?</p>

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<p>I looked at it on the website- it is sort of ED because it was a partial scholarship. If you had been awarded the full scholarship, it would have been binding, however, for partials they do let you decide to turn it down, or keep it as binding. This isn’t a violation of any sorts, but a grace position, offering a chance to break the ED position if the finances become difficult. In a sense it is an additional option, or subset of breaking ED for financial issues which is open to all students. It’s YU being generous to applicants.</p>

<p>Yes it would not be “Kosher” to accept the scholarship and keep your application to College B.</p>

15

<p>How do you know that college B won’t cost you if you aren’t accepted yet?</p>

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<p>It sounds like you are REQUIRED to immediately withdraw any other applications pending IF you accept this scholarship offer. So, if that is the case, you would immediately need to withdraw the applications to the other two schools.you will NEVER know what their offers are if you accept this offer from Yeshiva University…because those applications will GONE…DONE…WITHDRAWN.</p>

<p>Basically Yeshiva has placed you in a binding ED situation. Quite frankly, I think it flies in the face of the NACAC guidelines to call this EA, when it is binding in this way. </p>

<p>Can you afford the remaining costs for Yeshiva University for ALL four years? Can you comfortably maintain a 3.6 college GPA? That is a very high GPA for scholarship maintenance. Arizona State Barrett Honors College has a 3.5, and there are stories EVERY year here about students who lose their scholarships, and either have to transfer OR pay the full cost of attending. </p>

<p>This is a conversation you need to have with your parents. We’re talking about a LOT of money they could be expected to pay. Will you be able to commute from home or are you also needing to add in the costs of housing and board?</p>

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<p>PennyLane: College B’s program is basically free college. If you’re accepted, you automatically have free tuition.
Thumper: I was the one who called it EA because I couldn’t really think of a good word to use- so that’s just my carelessness.
And yes, I’m aware that I’ll never know if I would’ve gotten in anywhere else. In a way that’s a comfort, because there’s less of a what-if factor. (Obviously there’s still one, but at least if I found out that I had gotten into College B for free I wouldn’t be going crazy…)
My parents are covering dorms no matter where I go.
I want to go to medical school- if I can’t keep up a 3.6, that’s out the window as well, so I do know that that’s something I’m going to have to work REALLY hard at.
However, the point about my losing the scholarship is something I absolutely have to bring up to a greater extent with my parents. I feel really guilty that if something goes wrong it’s on them- I feel like it shouldn’t be.
However, they do work with you on keeping up the GPA. I know several people in the program and while some complain about elements of it, I haven’t heard anyone complain about the GPA part.</p>

18

<p>It isn’t an EA application, it is ED, and they call it ED from the beginning.
Every university allows applicants to break the ED agreement in the case of financial difficulties.
If you get a full scholarship, it is automatically binding.
If you get a partial, as the OP has, you may decline it, but if you accept it, it is binding. It’s the same as every ED decision, but it gives you an “out” if the partial scholarship isn’t enough to allow you to go there.</p>

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<p>What do your parents want you to do?</p>

20

<p>sybbie:
Have you talked about this with your parents?
Yes, I’m in the process.</p>

<p>are you comfortable attending this school and leaving everything else behind?
As far as the school is concerned, absolutely. It’s the money that’s making me undecided.</p>

<p>Are you OK with having to maintain a 3.6 gpa, to keep your scholarship?
I think so. I am aiming for medical school anyway, so that’s basically a prerequisite. They apparently also work with you on it, as I’ve heard from current participants.</p>

<p>is it your number one first choice?
Yes.
Y
How many other applications do you have out?
Two.</p>

<p>consider asking Yeshiva about the “fine print” before committing
I will definitely be communicating with them further before signing anything. This stage is basically for figuring out what to ask- and you guys have all been unbelievably helpful with that :)</p>

<p>Is it automatically renewable for the next 4 years?
Yes.</p>

<p>Is it attached to staying with a specific major?
No.</p>

<p>Is it renewable for the same amount of money each year?
Yes.</p>

<p>Is scholarship adjusted to take into consideration tuition increases (about 5% per year)
It is a flat scholarship- 30k.</p>

<p>Is there a gpa requirement needed to keep getting the money?
Yes.</p>

<p>When does the gpa requirement start (by the end of fall term or the end of spring term)?
I don’t know- good question.</p>

<p>Is there a phase in to the gpa requirement?
Ditto.</p>

<p>What happens if you do not meet gpa requirement, does money leave immediately or is there a grace period?
There is a grace period where they work with you.</p>

<p>If you lose scholarship and bring your grades back up is money reinstated?
There is a grace period, but if this is about after that, I don’t know.</p>

<p>What percentage of students lose their scholarship?
I don’t know- good question- but my impression is not that many.</p>

<p>Ask the financial aid office what percent of students lose their merit money in the first year.
Will do.</p>

<p>And the most important question… worse case scenario if you were to lose the scholarship would you still be able to swing the cost of attending?
Okay, tricky… I will definitely talk to YU and my parents a LOT about this.</p>

<p>Right now my big worry is that if I turn this down and don’t get into College B, I’m stuck with College X, where I’d really rather not be.
I obviously have a lot more thought I need to put into this. You guys have been outrageously helpful in getting me to figure this out; thank you SO MUCH!</p>