Thanks. I think that is very helpful.
This is from the lawsuit data (on reddit):
Academic Rating (0.5% of applicants get a 1, 42.3% of applicants get a 2):
- Summa potential. Genuine scholar; near-perfect scores and grades (in most cases) combined with unusual creativity and possible evidence of original scholarship.
- Magna potential: Excellent student with superb grades and mid-to-high-700 scores (33+ ACT).
- Cum laude potential: Very good student with excellent grades and mid-600 to low-700 scores (29 to 32 ACT).
- Adequate preparation. Respectable grades and low-to-mid-600 scores (26 to 29) ACT).
- Marginal potential. Modest grades and 500 scores (25 and below ACT).
- Achievement or motivation marginal or worse.
Difference between 1 and 2: You need to show academic excellence outside of just your grades and test scores in order to get a 1, most often through very prestigious academic competitions/awards and/or published research with a professor.
Extracurricular Rating (0.3% of applicants get a 1, 23.8% of applicants get a 2):
- Unusual strength in one or more areas. Possible national-level achievement or professional experience. A potential major contributor at Harvard. Truly unusual achievement.
- Strong secondary school contribution in one or more areas such as class president, newspaper editor, etc. Local or regional recognition; major accomplishment(s).[in another filing]: âSignificant school, and possibly regional accomplishments: for example, an applicant who was the student body president or captain of the debate team and the leader of multiple additional clubs.â
- Solid participation but without special distinction. (Upgrade 3+ to 2- in some cases if the e/c is particularly extensive and substantive.)
- Little or no participation.
- Substantial activity outside of conventional EC participation such as family commitments or term-time work (could be included with other e/c to boost the rating or left as a â5â if it is more representative of the studentâs commitment).
- Special circumstances limit or prevent participation (e.g. a physical condition).
Difference between 1 and 2: You have to achieve at a national/professional level in your activities in order to get a 1, simply being elite at a school or state level will not get you over a 2 in this category.
Athletic Rating (0.9% of applicants get a 1, 9.2% of applicants get a 2):
- Unusually strong prospect for varsity sports at Harvard, desired by Harvard coaches.
- Strong secondary school contribution in one or more areas; possible leadership role(s).
- Active participation.
- Little or no interest.
- Substantial activity outside of conventional EC participation such as family commitments or term-time work (could be included with other e/c to boost the rating or left as a â5â if it is more representative of the studentâs commitment).
- Physical condition prevents significant activity.
Difference between 1 and 2: Being recruited for a sport will get you a 1 here, but you can still help out your case a lot by being a strong non-recruited high school athlete and qualifying for a 2.
Personal Rating (0.0% of applicants â or below 50 total every year â get a 1, 20.8% of applicants get a 2):
- Outstanding
- Very Strong
- Generally Positive
- Bland or somewhat negative or immature
- Questionable personal qualities
- Worrisome personal qualities
Difference between 1 and 2: Way too vague to tell for sure, but some traits I often heard from Harvard alumni interviewers for students that received a 1 are âseemed like they would be amazing friends for their classmatesâ, âdidnât appear to treat college like a competition for gradesâ, âwouldnât be intimidated by other bright and active peopleâ, and âmemorable even 20-30 years later.â Essentially, you must stand out as a person everyone wants to be around (which is highly subjective)⊠how you do that is really a unique thing for everyone
Chances of admission to Harvard based on these ratings:
Candidates who Excel in One Dimension:
- Academic rating of 1, no other 1s: 68% admission rate
- Extracurricular rating of 1, no other 1s: 48% admission rate
- Personal rating of 1, no other 1s: 66% admission rate
- Athletic rating of 1, no other 1s: 88% admission rate
Multi-Dimensional (or âwell-roundedâ) Candidates:
- Three ratings of 2, one rating of 3 or 4: 43% admission rate
- Four ratings of 2: 68% admission rate
Weaker Candidates:
- No ratings of 1 or 2: 0.1% admission rate
2 Likes
Thank you. That really explains things.
I am surprised they didnât break it down further. If you were first gen college, you had xx% with 4 3s, or if you are legacy, you had 0% chance if you had any 3s. Must wait for another lawsuit for that detail.
1 Like
One observation about the Personal rating. If those reddit numbers are correct (and they seem basically correct to me) keep in mind that a Personal 1 is far, far more than:
ââŠsome traits I often heard from alumni interviewers for students that received a 1 are âseemed like they would be amazing friends for their classmates,â âdidnât appear to treat college like a competition for grades,â âwouldnât be intimidated by other bright and active people.ââ
These are common characteristics of admits, and probably are associated with Personal 2s and 3s. The excerpt from reddit notes that fewer than 50 per year, out of 30,000, 40,000, 50,000 applicants (pick your year, pick your denominator!) get a Personal 1 and I donât doubt it.
It just goes to show how little impact the alumni interviews have when there are interviewers handing out 1s to candidates who âwouldnât be intimated by other bright and active people,â which is pretty much everyone who is admitted, not the 50 most amazing. That alumni interview 1 gets whittled down to reality by being the least important component in the actual Personal rating.
Are there exceptions sometimes? Of course.
I was wondering if you had any knowledge how a âhigh priority walk onâ applicant would be viewed? The Harvard coach didnât have a recruited spot to offer but still wanted my D on the team. My D has strong academics, probably 2 or 2- but her EC includes international and top national ranking in her sport. Considering that recruited athletes have 88% admittance rate, what do you think my D chances are as a âhigh priority walk onâ? Her ECâs consist mainly of her accomplishments in her sport.
@spring14, The correct answer to your question is the coach can not influence decision making for admissions for their non-designated spots. Anyone who tells you something else is risking a federal investigation and has the opportunity to be highlighted in a Netflix documentary.
Good luck to D! It sounds like she has a strong application. There are clearly potential athletes admitted in the early and regular rounds - they would not have enough student athletes without that. The coach may have had players with some lower stats on the index and figured your D may get in on her own and they did not need to use one their spots on her. Does she have any other D1 interest?
It is an interesting process since there are no athletic scholarships with the Ivy League, but there is a structure, ranking system, and set number of recruited spots annually per sport based on fluctuating factors with the schools. Because of the athletic league agreements, they can not give athletic recruitment preference for a âwalk on.â The recruited athletes are not signing binding scholarship offers, so the process is very different from the other D1 schools.
This page is a little dated, but gives some insight - no SAT Subject tests anymore, but would have been around the era of the lawsuit mentioned above.
DID ANYONE APPLYING FROM INDIA GET AN INTERVIEW?? If no one got, does that mean interview is not a âsignâ?
I read a Yale alum saying they were interviewing candidates genuinely for extra info and not as a âsign of admissionâ.
interviewer* of Yale
Specifically at Harvard a coachâs âsoftâ support does help somewhat and she has been assigned to a liaison as a high priority walk on. I understand that itâs not a guarantee admission as like a recruited athlete but I do think it does have some advantage in the admissions process. I was just wondering how much advantage and if her EC is mainly consisting of her top national results and being ranked internationally, if itâs considered a 2 rating for EC. Also I would think she would get a 2+ rating in the athletic category.
She was offered other D1 recruited spots at other D1 schools but her dream school is Harvard and she thought it was worth taking the chance.
2 Likes
Is the liaison in the admissions office? I had also heard over the years about âsoft supportâ during the admissions process. But I am not sure if the sport is considered and EC. My kid has high performance level in her sport, has been in contact with coaches, but also has strong ECs in another area. Question about personal. I thought that the personal rating was also affected by hooks like staff offspring or legacy. So if you were a professorâs kid you would get 1 in personal.
First of all, good luck to your daughter! The only legitimate answer to your question is that no one knows.
Athletic ratings stand on their own and are not part of the EC rating. They are separate categories.
When you get down to the individual case, however, all the ratings become superfluous as the committees discuss and cast votes. The actual decisions are subjective, or âholisticâ as they might prefer to describe it. So, while one can make quantitative observations of the applicant population each year as a whole, there is a lot of variation in outcomes at the individual applicant level.
If someone at Harvard knows and is interested in an applicant, and admissions knows that, it can be helpful to their case.
1 Like
The personal rating has nothing to do with being an applicant from a category of interest. A Personal 1 lights up the room, and stirs deep emotion and admiration by force of personality, life story, and character, and as noted earlier in this thread, are so few each year that the number barely registers in the applicant population statistics.
Moreover, the âtipâ from being an applicant from a category of interest other than being a recruited athlete usually manifests itself at the very end of the process, when âloppingâ occurs. Minimally, this usually means having already received a yes at both the subcommittee and full committee levels at the REA and RD rounds.
How many get lopped? About as many get lopped as get finally admitted, and many of the lopped go into the soft rejection folder known as the Harvard waitlist.
1 Like
Did your 2025âer apply SCEA and admitted or was it regular? I heard the same thing about another student, it was regular admission though.
Thank you for the helpful information. I guess we are just so nervous and trying to guess what the outcome will be will only drive us crazy.
Itâs true that there is the overall subjective rating which is derived from many different factors and the admission committeeâs holistic view of the applicant.
Best of luck to all the applicants!
1 Like
Is AI a big factor? I would think 95% of applicants have a pretty high AI? But whaddoo I know.
We have a junior at H. Maintenance staff said 1/3 of the 2022 graduating class took last year off so the junior class is huge/largest H has ever had. But that shouldnât impact 2026âers so much because they will be in first year housing. We so wish our junior had taken last year off.
1 Like
*please take with a grain of salt, donât know how accurate the info is -
2 Likes
The proportions are almost opposite: about one applicant in ten gets an Athletic 1 or 2.
For Athletic 1s, who are almost always recruited athletes, that 1 is often definitive since about 9 in 10 are admitted. Keep in mind, however, that there is a lot of preliminary work and investigation done by the coaches to get a recruited athlete to the point of applying, including fitting into their sportâs Academic Index. The process for admitting recruited athletes should be set aside and considered a completely different process than that for every other applicant.
Iâve described Athletic 2s and 2+s up thread. Does a 2 help? Yes, a bit overall and a bit more individual by individual if there is coaching interest, but not a lot. Does a 3 or 4 hurt you? No, a low athletic rating is considered neutral. This is the only category where that is true. In contrast, a rating of 3 or 4 in one or more of the other categories is how rejections begin.
I was hoping that a coachâs interest in the applicant wouldâve been a bigger advantage but weâll take anything at this point.
My D has a very high gpa consisting of all Honors and 7 AP classes. We are part of the most competitive region of NJ/NY area. Her SAT was within the range required but far from perfect so weâre hoping her academics will be in the 2- range. Her EC includes the high competitive sport, liaison to forming a national company partnership, and some volunteer work. Her LORâs I suspect will be good along with her essays which she worked really hard on. Her alumni interviewer told her at the end of interview that it went very well. So all fingers crossed!
Harvard attracts the best of best applicants so I canât imagine the achievements and accolades of all the candidates from around the world. Itâs definitely a very narrow path to get through.
3 Likes