D’16 just got a letter with some financial aid from Ohio U offering $8,964, renewable for 8 semesters. Award basically makes the OOS tuition the same as in-state! Was not expecting anything! Just told D’16 4 years at OU and a new car for the same price as 2 years at Drexel.
My D is probably applying to Temple. Depending on how generously they calculate the GPA for scholarship purposes, she may qualify for $14,000 off tuition per year, which would leave money left over in her 529 account. They don’t have the major she wants, but she’s planning to apply (she realizes she could change her mind) - she loved the campus, and I like that it’s two to three hours from home instead of 2,000+ miles away like some other schools on her list.
@eh1234, let’s hope they’re generous in calculating GPA for scholarships this year. I worry that they’ll see the two D’s on our S’s transcript and decide to be less generous. He has other options, but if the visit tomorrow goes well he’d probably be disappointed to miss out. Of course he should have thought about that when he was choosing not to do assignments…
Just realized (again) that one of S16’s safeties (that we visited last week prompting him to aspire to the honors program) asks for a 3.5 minimum unweighted GPA. Oh well. Now he can just push the button on the Common App. Fewer essays to write.
Right there with you, @mstomper.
That’s awesome, @labegg! Congrats to your daughter!
Hoping my D will hear from Ohio re: merit… I’d be happy if she got enough to bring it down to the cost of our in-state flagship in IL… We’ll see…
Thank you…her “merit” was because I am an OU graduate, lol. Glad that degree paid in the end, lol
I really wanted to post this in another thread, but I thought maybe I shouldn’t, it is something that I have wanted to get off of my chest since I started lurking on CC years ago. Please bear with me…
307 "If your child is not doing that great in high school, maybe a year of shining brightly, doing 100% of the work, getting As and kudos from professors would be a good introduction to college rather than squeaking into flagships or some selective school and getting Cs or lower."
The implication is that “B” students don’t have what it takes to play with the smart kids (“A” students).Just don’t bother to push yourself, leave it to the smart kids. It is elitist.
I don’t know what the statistics are for how HS “B” students perform once they reach college, whether their grades drop significantly or they are more likely to not finish a degree. Most “B” students are hard workers that ARE doing 100% of the work. They enjoy the challenge of taking an advanced class even though they know that they are likely to end up with a B or even a C. It doesn’t matter to them, they are there to learn not just get the “A”.
Why is it that everyone thinks that a “B” just isn’t good enough? It is by definition above average. Why is there is pervasive attitude that “B” students have nothing of value to contribute to an environment of high achieving “A” students and therefore should be shut out of academically challenging universities or even their state flagship?
Anecdote: I was a solid “B” student in HS and remained solid “B” student in college. I went on to graduate school and eventually got a solid job, became a productive member of society and have given back to my community. I may not have won a Noble Prize and I may have just been a cog in the machine but take out one cog and, usually, the machine stops working. I know many other “B” HS students who did just fine in colleges filled with “A” HS students. Most graduated and some even went on to do big things. Shocking, I know!
“B” students already know what it takes to stay afloat in a very competitive environment, they have been doing it for years in high school. It’s been my experience that it is those “A” students that are often the ones that crumble under the pressure and don’t know how to pick up the pieces and move forward. The Valedictorian and Salutatorian from my high school both dropped out of college and never finished a degree. I know many “A” students that aren’t Noble Prize winners either and am not exactly sure what more their A GPA from prestigious schools brought them than my B GPA other than bragging rights
Please stop patronizing the “B” student.
I so hear you, labegg! I try not to get caught up in the CC craziness where a parent of a 3.7 student is asked why the student has such low grades-not trying hard enough? Over their head? In the wrong classes? when in reality, a 3.7 is pretty darn good, as is a 31 or 32 on the ACT when on CC they’re told, “You should probably retake.”
What keeps me from freaking out (most of the time) is that my older D was a nice, solid B+ student and a nice solid, “just above average” SAT taker and got into every school to which she applied-public, private, large and small. And unlike her sister, she is as white and unhooked as they come.
My youngest is probably one of the kids some CCers would look down on. At her school that “high B” (no weighting) IS a good grade-top 8 in her class. But here-that wouldn’t matter. Luckily her college list is exactly as is should be for her-places where she’ll get good merit money-they give it for B’s in many schools-and where she will be nurtured and she can flourish. B students do it all the time. As will all of the kids here-even the one’s without all A’s and those perfect test scores.
Like any other “one size fits all”, there’s no one good summation of B students (or A students either). D is one who is a B student in part because of her immaturity, in part because of her learning disabilities, and in part because of personality. She absolutely will do better in a non-cutthroat environment. She’s looking at different schools to her brother because she’s got a different learning style and personality, and she’s absolutely more likely to thrive at Directional U than at, say, Georgetown or Tufts. Competition is not her style. She’s got enough anxiety about life on her own.
Will a year shine her up a bit? I hope so. (Hope it does her brother, as well.) Both her older half-sisters were much more settled and mature after a year away at school. I think that’s part of the whole point of it.
I’m uncomfortable trying to assign relative value on either her path or her brother’s (for what are probably obvious reasons). My two very much illustrate the need for a good fit, whatever that fit is. They’re applying to fifteen schools between them, but only one overlaps (state flagship: her reach, his safety, though we try not to use those terms in conversation because of the dynamic it sets up). “Run your own race” is very much a mantra chez Petrichor.
That having been said, do I talk about S more than D on the “regular” 16 board? Yeah. He’s a lot more work, a much more intense kid-- and therefore sometimes there’s just more material.
But I’m counting on both of them to be successful. Nursing homes are expensive, and I want them to be able to find me a nice one when the time comes.
I agree with you @sseamom and @petrichor11 that there is no one size fits all for every student, and that fit is so much more important than prestige and selectivity status of school. My oldest son probably could be admitted into some more selective programs based on his stats, but right now his first choice is not the most “selective or most prestigious” school on his list. I often am asked to explain why he would prefer University A over University B, etc. It’s not easy being asked to justify a very personal decision. At the same time, when his college education is dependent on him retaining at least a 3.0 to 3.5 average to keep his
scholarships, I’m going to make sure that he’s in the place that can foster him doing that. I can’t begin to imagine how disruptive it would be to have to change schools midstream. Some kids never return to school .
Unfortunately , the college experience today is so very different than it was 30
years ago or even 10 years ago. The colleges have made it this way. As more and more people are applying to school , colleges are more selective and interested in maintaining ranks rather than providing an education to the masses. It’s not necessarily the parents of A students keeping the B students out, it’s the universities themselves. Is this right? No, but it has become the reality. I think that’s way all the admissions craziness has ensued . Many of my state schools have become unattainable to the B student. They have been relegated to the bridge programs associated with these schools . Unfortunately, many people are under the impression that the only place to get a good education is at a prestigious , ranked school. That believe is alive, well and perpetuated on CC.
@labegg I’m an OU grad too. May I ask what the merit was? You can PM me if you prefer
Hello, I follow but comment little; CC group is a group upon itself…my D’15 was a “B-B+” in High school…first semester college she doing great…but again ,she got her sea legs in high school, swimming with the Sharks…study skills in place…now my S’16 same high school,same sharks ,but no study skills but better grades…I worry about first semester college for him. He is capable of of a top 40 school has the resume; the intelligence but not the drive…so we have looked lower and gone with fit. I really believe that it is okay to be average, doing average, and perusing your goals in an environment that will not always be an uphill battle. Both parents have successful careers, well establish networks and neither one went to a top school, but we did persue what we wanted in academia and both graduated in a timely manner. I always come back to the thought, that it is usually the B student at the board room table running the meeting, and the others are looking on and listening…
One of the good things about D’s other-than-perfect high school grades is that we started looking at start dates other than fall semester for State Flagship U (because it’s easier to get in). She actually likes the idea of starting summer term, and getting a few classes ahead of the game before crowds and football and party season. So that was kind of serendipitous in that respect.
My biggest concern, honestly, is that she’s not going to get merit money with her grades/scores-- which means student loans. That part is undeniably lousy.
I think ya’ll have hit it on the head…it is ALL about the fit and I feel that “B” students (and their parents), in general, really take the time to make sure the shoe fits because they have been forced to look through the list of potential colleges a bit more thoroughly.
Our kids, A or B or C, will find where they need to be and do “just fine”. GO TEAM!
I have no doubts that D has the ABILITY and intelligence to go to a top 100 school (if she would be admitted) or a huge flagship, and do the work and keep up.
Aside from her stats keeping her from being admitted, though, at this point, I fear it would be detrimental to her emotional well-being. Because, right now, she is already in a cut-throat environment at her suburban Chicago high school. It has sucked the life out of her, and she needs to get into a more “relaxed”, for lack of a better word, and nurturing, academic environment for college, or I fear she will really crash and burn.
Yes, some of her GPA is due to her NOT doing 100% of the work needed. But to do that, she would have had even less sleep, less time for the ECs that are important to her and keep her sane, and less time for seeing friends (which she rarely even does now.)
One of her issues is that she is slow and very thorough… Before junior year, she was something of a perfectionist. She has let that go. It has been at the expense of her 4.0 that she held until the end of sophomore year, but that HAD TO HAPPEN in order for her to get over the perfectionist tendencies that, honestly, would hold her back more in the long run… I’m glad she let the perfectionism go now, in high school, instead of having a meltdown in her freshman year of college, after getting her first C.
I witnessed that in a couple of dorm mates when I was in college - the straight A student who, for the first time in their lives, got a C on a paper or assignment, along with what they perceived as harsh criticism scrawled along the paper’s margins. One girl sobbed all day and was inconsolable. We talked her through it, hugged her a lot, and gave her strategies for keeping a B in the class…
My D has already had that meltdown, at the end of sophomore year. She had another one last year, when she thought she’d fail Physics. “Get a C” I told her, it’s passing… (then I freaked out briefly, thinking a C both semesters would not fly in college admissions, but thank goodness, never her let her know I did…)
I wasn’t trying to encourage her to get Cs instead of Bs or As, but rather, trying to tell her that, it’s not all or nothing, black and white, A or F. It’s a lesson she needed to learn.
C might be average, but it means you didn’t give up, you kept on trying… and you passed.
Anyway, I really hoped D would go for one of the small LACs, as I really feel she could use the nurturing and support. I also think she’d thrive with smaller class sizes, more discussion, and more writing…
I think she’ll be fine at the smaller state schools, though. I think a couple of them actually have smaller class sizes, mostly, because there are less than 15k undergrads total.
I think she’d be fine at a flagship, actually, but possibly overwhelmed at the bureaucracy aspect of such a huge institution.
Who I really feel for are the C students - some of these students are gifted and bright, but just haven’t blossomed yet. Someone was telling me they shouldn’t admit kids with 2.0 into ANY 4 year college. I disagree. I think it’s very important we have institutions that allow a high school student with a 2.0 - 2.5 have another chance. Some of these C students end up doing much better in college. Some of them don’t, but some do. They need to have that chance.
The ages between 14 and 18 is really not ideal for making choices that affect the entire rest of your life, re: career and education. Allowing B and C students a chance at a college degree allows time for the late blooming.
Another '15 3.0-3.3 parent who lurks (especially when taggedt). @BeeDAre, first - congrats to your daughter for getting those As. D’15 was a pretty solid B/B+ student who I thought had the potential to get As but she made some choices (sleep over grades) which I respected. I learned to focus more on “upward trend” and “forward progress”.
I panicked slightly when I saw a C in D’s first quarter report card last year. It was in AP Lit and she had asked the teacher to write a letter of recommendation (!). Well, the teacher must have written a nice one despite the low grade because D was accepted everywhere. (The goal for senior year was to not have any Cs. She later got an A second quarter, making a B as the final first semester grade)
One parent thought I had no faith in my daughter because she didn’t have any reaches. In fact, we had discussed her preferences. She didn’t want to go into a high stress environment where she would be in the bottom half of the class. Even though she had taken 9,10 AP classes, she felt she would have played catch-up with the other students. So, she looked at match/low match schools where she would fit in with the other students, maybe be a little toward the top. So far, she’s enjoying and thriving at her choice. No complaints here for choosing the college geared toward the B student.
I respectively disagree that a child needs to go to a four year college to “have another chance”. I believe that a 2 year school is an excellent starting point for a C student. School is extremely expensive. Why not get a positive experience for a year or two before transferring to a four year institution ? I certainly wouldn’t recommend taking on debt at a four year school for a C student, but that’s just my opinion .
We have taken this same strategy with D’s college list. There are a couple of schools where she may be in the top 25%, but she really is interested in a couple of interdisciplinary majors they have. And of course, we can’t discount the merit scholarships to be had there…
At this point, I just really want her in a less competitive environment where she can be free to enjoy learning, instead of focusing on “keeping up”…
We have also been questioned by well-meaning friends and family as to why she is not going to one of the midwestern flagships, or trying to squeeze into a higher-ranked private school. I know they mean well, but it’s annoying. The schools she has applied to are the best fit for her.
@carolinamom2boys, I think community college is a great alternative for some students, but for some others - it would be better if they could go ahead and dive into a 4-year institution. For one thing, I think it may actually be detrimental for some students to stay home after high school. I know that living on-campus makes it more expensive, but it doesn’t take away the fact that many kids thrive when they get away from home.
I also see community college in the same vein as having another chance, though, and that’s also why those are so vital to have in the system, as well.
Btw, there are lots of 3.5+, high-test score students at our local CCs in my area. Because of money - or lack of it. Chicago-area CCs have a direct relationship with state universities for transferring courses… Many of my D’s peers plan to go to the local CC for two years and transfer. I personally feel that many of them wold be better off at a 4-year university, but it’s a luxury they can’t afford right now. I’m glad the CCs are there to allow them to have this chance to save money, though and still transfer later with no hassles.