Great to hear the updates. D is all settled into her new single dorm in NYC and is excited to be back in math/science courses. She was a little anxious to have to adjust to a new city but after meeting her professors and some new students, she’s feeling pretty good! She has 3 physics courses, calc and social. I think we will find out rather quickly if she will continue on this path toward astrophysics or not. Chem still plays around in her mind, so we’ll see.
D starts fall semester tomorrow in Morocco. Despite not choosing to attend one of the Arabic flagship colleges as she originally thought necessary, her Arabic is improving quite nicely. She’s taking 4 classes (this will be her lightest semester ever): MSA, Moroccan dialect (she’s the only student in her section, which is going to be awesome 1-on-1 tutoring), a sociology/history class, and a religion class. All of the classes are taught entirely in Arabic and the students signed a pledge not to speak English during the course of the semester with limited exceptions. The program schedule is also jam packed with activities and travel. It should be a great semester and I’m excited for her. But I can’t wait to see her in December. She’s already been gone over 4 months.
I hope all of your students have a wonderful semester!
Campus is closed until further notice. Dd is on her way home.
So glad to hear she will be safe with you untill the storm is over. We live in NC during Floyd it was not fun. D was 2 weeks old when that storm hit and caused so much damage most of which was from flooding
@botcom Thanks! We lived in SC not far from campus when Hugo went through. Our oldest was 3 weeks old. I ended up moving in with my parents bc there was no power for 3 weeks. Trees down everywhere. Memories of that time have had me stressed at the thought of her being in campus housing during it.
http://fortune.com/2018/05/03/job-search-interview-gender-discrimination/
My D went to her first job fair on campus a couple of weeks ago. She dressed up in a navy blue suit and handed in her resume (reviewed by career center staff) to a handful of companies. She was seeking summer ChemE internships. The results were very disappointing. She called me, very confused, asking why students with no research, no leadership/volunteering, and much lower GPAs, got call back for interviews but not her. Then I found the above mentioned article online. I hope what’s in this article is not true!
Tell her to keep looking and use every resource available to her (LinkedIn, alums, of her school, etc). Internships are competitive and geared towards hiring of grads so many companies look for rising seniors first. My DS16 EE has not found either of his summer internships at the college job fair. Also, if those she met at the job fair are behaving as described in the article, she is better off elsewhere anyway. Female engineers are in demand. She just has not found the right place yet.
@whataboutcollege My ds is a chemE and he recruited co-op students for his company for a few yrs after graduation. GPA was a screener in a positive way and certainly not discriminatory.
Fwiw, 1st semester sophomores are not as recruitable as jrs. Second, chemE summer internships are typically less common than co-ops. Co-ops require company commitment to the student. Has she considered co-oping? I highly recommend them for engineering students.
@whataboutcollege, as human (who happens to be a male), father (of a daughter and two sons), and an engineer (but not a chem e) the data in your article is extremely discouraging. I wonder if the story this data tells has already filtered down and is part of the reason for the lack of women choosing engineering?
Still,
Onward and Upward!
Another thought, those at the job fair may know that your DD will be highly sought after at graduation and know they will not be able to compete then so are looking for others now. Make sure she reaches out to those where she would want to work after graduation. She can highlight her career goals in her cover letter or email. Also no harm in following companies on LinkedIn.
@Cheeringsection @Mom2aphysicsgeek @Dave_N
Thank you for your comments and feedbacks! D was disappointed not just because she was not called, but her fellow ChemE sophs (who not only have lower GPAs, but also less leaderships and ECs) were called, and at times, by more than one company. She is questioning what she did wrong. I want her to look deep into her own presentation and make sure she doesn’t come across as arrogant or bragging. Now that I found this research. I am also thinking about advising her to de-emphasize her GPA on her resume. Maybe highlight Dean’s list, Tau Beta Pi membership is a subtler way to convey high GPA. Then how do you show your “likable” side? Maybe she should list her senior leadership role in her sorority first on her resume rather than her research lab experience? I want to think I am over reacting:). I also didn’t think Tufts syndrome would carry into college job search!
@whataboutcollege I know you are venting, but your post did make me think about one thing my dh (also a chemE) and ds have both witnessed in their careers (not limited to women, fwiw) is individuals who do not have an interest in the types of interactions required in a manufacturing environment. Is it at all possible that might be a concern?
Another issue might be that students with high GPAs want research or design opportunities that aren’t going to be available in a manufacturing internship scenario. Is she aware of the actual type of work the internship is offering interns and do her career goals match the internship?
@Mom2aphysicsgeek My dad was a ChemE and so is my sister. When I was young, I spent many summers (with my Dad) in those “smelly” chemical plants. It was long time ago and factory environments have since changed a lot. But because of those memories, I always have the doubt whether she know what a ChemE career really is. But she seems pretty determined. I am sure there is a disconnect of what an ideal internship should be vs. reality:). I think that disconnect is probably always there for first-time interns. I am hoping an internship can show her if she is on the right path. The company she really wanted to intern with, since frosh year, was General Mill.
What does your sister say? Is she someone your dd could turn to for advice?
My sister didn’t think ChemE is the best career. She thinks D would be better off doing what I am doing :-).
I didn’t feel my sister’s opinion is very objective since she had always struggled for other reasons. D did talk to several recent ChemE graduates to understand it more @Mom2aphysicsgeek
@whataboutcollege Engineering internships, especially as a freshman or sophomore can be tough. You can’t depend on job fairs, where many companies are looking for Juniors or graduates. Internships are often used as a recruiting tool, hence the focus on juniors. However, some companies do hire sophomores.
She needs to be applying to LOTs of jobs online. That’s how may daughter found both of her internships, not at the career fair(s).
Also keep in mind that career fairs are “early” in the recruiting cycle. She many not get an offer for an interview or job until the spring (both of my daughter’s offers came in February and March/May).
Finally, it’s OK not to get an internship! All of the interviewing, resume writing, research, etc., will help pay off next year when she goes through the process again as a Junior. That was the case with my daughter.
Can A high GPA raise a flag for a recruiter? Yes. The higher the GPA, the more the recruiter will be concerned with the applicants social skills (especially in engineering/STEM). They are looking for recruits that will work well with other employees. This applies to men and women. That’s why almost all of the questions asked during an interview with be behavioral questions.
“Give an example of an occasion when you worked with a team to solve a problem”
Using my sophomore engineering son as an example, who’s going through the same process as your daughter (the struggle is real!), almost every question recruiters ask are behavioral questions or questions related to what’s he’s done outside of the class room (he’s a member of a design team/motor sports team).
With my daughter, before she worked her first internship, most of her answers to “behavioral” questions where related to her time in a women’s engineering sorority (Phi Sigma Rho). Now she can choose between leadership roles in her sorority, between her two internships, and her senior design project when answering questions (She graduates this December).
With both DS and DD, I pushed/advise them to get involved with varies student groups (like design teams, society of women engineers, etc.), take leadership rolls, etc. It’s not enough that you join a group like SWE, you need to be “involved”. That’s how you start to arm yourself with answers to those darn behavioral questions!!
Good Luck!
@Gator88NE Thank you for your advise. It is very helpful! Hope D will have more leadership experiences as she progresses. I have a quick question about your DD’s job application online. Did she apply through career site offered by her school, directly to company sites, or to those large job site (eg. monster etc)?
I’m a ChemE (and a female), and I work in a pretty specialized niche of ChemE. I wouldn’t have been a good fit for a bio-chem, petroleum, or even really straight chemical manufacturing. Could it be that your daughter, when talking about her research and engineering electives, is focusing a lot on a certain specialization within ChemE that may not be a match for the internships available?
I know that if I were looking for an intern, an interest in materials, thin films, optics, kinetics, and vacuum systems would probably be more important to me than grades and leadership–someone who was really focused on food science or bio-chem wouldn’t be a good match for our group.
As others have said, your daughter is practicing important skills just by resume writing and interviewing. Plus, she’s starting to figure out what area of ChemE she’s interested in by her research and classes. Good luck to her!
@whataboutcollege Most of her job searching starts on LinkedIn. From LinkedIn she is usually directed to the company’s website to enter the app. So, this semester, she’s meet with companies on campus (at career fairs, etc.) and been directed to their website, or she’s used LinkedIn.
@MSU88CHEng @Gator88NE Thank you for the insights!