Parents of the HS Class of 2017 (Part 1)

Parents Forum Class of 20xx Community
1821

Thanks for all the condolences about my dad. This thread really picked up its pace now that I don’t have time to keep up.

I forgot that DS’s FRC tournament runs into the 1st Saturday of spring break, so not sure how much of UC Santa Cruz and its surroundings we’ll see on the 1st Sunday of spring break. When I pointed that out, my 7th grader mentioned that Santa Cruz was at the top of their (preferred pronoun is “they”) college list. I wasn’t even aware that they had a “college list”, since their 1st semester grades were fairly dismal due to laziness. 2nd semester is looking better so far, however, so there is time for them to turn things around.

Thanks for the campus reviews so far. I’m looking forward to more. Reed sounds intriguing, and I’ve read that a high percentage of Reed students go on to PhDs.

@CT1417 My son’s 1 year art credit for UCs is “Engineering Sculpture & Design” – counts as art, really.

@mtrosemom Sorry to hear about the car accident, but so so happy that no one was hurt! DS has his license, but doesn’t like to drive to FRC, because they work in a barn that requires a steep drive up and down a dirt (or mud) hill and tight turns. I’m surprised the neighbors haven’t complained about the late night headlights waking up their horses. Luckily, I usually stay up late, so I’m the carpool mom for getting home from the barn.

Re: You’ve Got Mail. DS likes to see that there is mail, but doesn’t look at much. His name is the same as a midwest LAC, so he keeps the mail from them, even though they are not much of a physics school.

Re: Languages. Latin counts; colleges still teach it after all. ASL counts for UCs; is that spoken? My 7th grader wants Latin. (Harry Potter & Percy Jackson, etc. fan) DH is pretty adamant that languages should be useful for making world travel easier. They argue…

Re: Subject tests. DS has good scores in Physics and Math II. He’d hesitate to mess those up with a lower score next to them. He’s pretty sure he’s done with SAT/ACT after his Feb ACT score (no essay score yet). So, he could consider a subject test in Biology, US History, or Literature in June, all of which I think he’d do well at, but probably not at the 800 level given the tougher curves. He might do Spanish depending on how he feels he does on the AP test, because he wants to be done with Spanish.

@2muchquan High schools have parent-teacher conferences?

1822

@Ynotgo I’m pretty sure I know the midwestern LAC. Wooster is a great name for a kid. :))

Yes, they do have P-T conferences in HS (sorry, only one emoji per post, I think). I’ve always thought they were pretty useless. This one was pretty useful. I talked to the AP Lit teacher about the change to the Writing portion of the ACT, which she had just learned about ealier in the day. She had a kid with a 36 ACT and 22 on the Writing…and now understands. She’s going to take some time to talk about the new rubric with the kids. Then, as I mentioned, I kind of felt out different teachers for LORs. They were all very positive about doing them, which for some reason surprised me, so we’re in good shape. I’m on a first-name basis with D’s GC, too, so that should go well. Although I’m not sure what she calls me behind my back.

I’m guessing you were kidding about the conferences? Do other H-S not have them? I’m fulling expecting them at college too. No?

1823

Gosh, I had a busy day yesterday and didn’t get a chance to read until this morning. That was a whole string of posts I couldn’t relate to. And, honestly, I am 100% thankful. My kids get to take whatever they want. My kids have the opportunity to use high school to explore topics they are interested in. My physics geek took 3 yrs of astronomy on top of his other courses. My 11th grader who just finished cal 1 is replacing it with a linguistics course I designed. She is planning on 3semesters of linguistics before she graduates to help her decide if that is a direction she might want to take her love for languages.

Of course, it helps that my kids aren’t seeking elite school admissions. We can’t afford them. Even if we could, I doubt that is the path we would seek. An interesting conversation a few weeks ago amg a group of parents whose kids went to tippy top elite schools and their kids were not the # 1 or 2 students was that when it came to grad school applications or needing letters of recommendation for things that the decisions of those top students impacted where they coul apply. (I had not thought about it before. They were saying that there kids had to select different grad school programs bc of the top students’ choices.). That sort of situation impact REUs and LOR, etc. (Though they were all emphatic that their kids loved their UG experiences, just that this was a real life consequence of the choice.).

My thinking is more along the lines of Malcom Gladwell’s better to be a big fish. Being the big fish has only been a positive for my adult kids. Their outcomes have all been exactly what they have wanted. (And all accomplished with our tiny college budget each.). It also makes for a much less stressful college application process. :slight_smile: ya’ll’s posts stress me out just reading them!

1824

We have high school PT conferences. They changed it recently to on-demand by appointment only. And we are requested both terms by AP USH teacher for “either struggling or failing.” DS should have been in standard history even if none of his friends are in the class and he would get to meet some unscrupulous kids.

1825

@BigPapiofthree I agree that a lot of kids are pushed too hard (not only academically, but in sports, music, theater, etc.). Balance is very important including just having some fun. But where that balance is found varies from kid to kid. My son volunteered at our local zoo for 3 years, participated in a number of clubs (most were math/science based but that is his passion and what he views as fun – my wife and I laugh that he was with his people), hung out with friends, goes to amusement parks any chance he gets, played video games, etc. So he did experience a lot more than just the classroom.

He did incredibly well in all of his classes and on all of the AP exams (except for one his senior year though he did pass it). He still had time for things outside the classroom. So should he have taken study halls or honors history/english instead? That was actually a conversation my wife and I (and later he by himself) had with his GC. Had his grades suffered or had he spent all of his time locked in his room studying, I think that would have made sense. But that isn’t what happened.

And to be clear, he didn’t take 17 AP classes. He actually took 14 AP classes (Econ and Physics have 2 tests each and he self studied for a computer exam which wasn’t offered at his school). And by self study, I mean he went to numerous computer camps as a kid and spent a ton of time (on his own and for fun) writing code with some of his friends. His taking that exam was like a kid with German immigrant parents who speak German at home taking the AP German exam. I was just responding to Dave whose daughter appears to be taking 13 AP classes. I don’t think that is unreasonable or uncommon. And depending on the kid, I don’t see an issue with it. But as I noted, senioritis can be an issue. Especially after college admissions come out. I know a lot of kids who pretty much dropped out of every group/activity in January. We had to push/pull my son across the line in his english and history class but those are subjects which do not come as easily for him.

1826

Just to clarify, my post was not in reference to taking a challenging load. My kids thrive in challenge. Where I see the difference, and the difference I am thankful for, is that their challenging load doesn’t have to conform to a rigid list of courses that may or not appeal to them at all. Most of the AP classes are not focused on subjects my kids want to study and I am glad they can breathe life into their own ideas.

My 11th grader told me a few weeks ago that she wants to complete a big sr capstone project. (None of her older siblings did this. It is 100% her idea.). She wants to do her research on Shakespeare and write a sr thesis paper. (Never had a kid ask to do that before! :wink: ) All the power to her. It will be a challenging objective to accomplish without the confines of an AP course.

DE has also been a huge blessing for taking courses that they want to explore.

1827

DD goes to bed before 10, even with 5 APs, varsity swimming, robotics, and being president in a big club and other stuff. She gets about 8.5 hours or more sleep every night, except the days she goes to morning practice, which she gets about 7, getting up before 5 am. She also has more than 100% on two APs, and over 96% on everything else. She did creative writing and is doing ceramics, and will continue ceramics next year. To her, AP Gov is fun! I do believe she is balanced and not stressed. That is why I agreed with 6 APs next year :wink:

1828

@2muchquan – no P/T conferences in HS, but a Jr year parent/student conference with GC. Middle school P/T conferences are entirely optional also.

RE: not knowing about change to ACT essay. REALLY? The test prep firms knew about the change before the Sept exam. That is kind of disappointing. Although it would be no better at our school where absolutely no time is dedicated to test prep. They just assume everyone handles it outside of school. AP teachers do prep students for the AP exams, but no one touches SAT or ACT. I have come across high schools where test prep and college app essay writing are actual school day courses, but not here.

1829

@saillakeerie , did your son win the state AP scholar?

1830

We haven’t had a parent-teacher conference since elementary school. I don’t count a fall open house as the same thing. In fact, in most cases I have never met the HS teachers with the exception of S17’s freshman year open house and then the music teachers who I see at activities…or teachers that also coach XC or track.

Hasn’t seemed to hurt us at all. I can’t see how teachers would have time for that in MS and HS unless it’s a really really small school. Heck, I’m happy to get an email back. I think I’ve emailed a HS teacher twice in total (not including a vacation/missed day notification) for S17 and of that, only one was actually related to the class. I’d like to think,and hope, and believe that my kids know their teachers well enough, (and I by association and what my child tells me), that they are perfectly capable of figuring out who they should target for an LOR.

I also try really hard to let them fight their own battles in class. I’ve interceded twice (or more accurately attempted). Once on a teacher placement issue for S19 in MS (which didn’t get us anywhere) and then recently for S17 in AP Physics. It has to be pretty significant for me to even consider that. In that instance we have a teacher who has been absent a lot due to a family emergency, ended the first semester not having updated grades in 2 months, including the semester final. A final in which she told the kids could replace their semester grade if it was better than the current grade. A difficult final that S17 worked his tail off studying for (self directed, zero pressure on our end). Final grades uploaded with that scenario, no clue how they did on the final and a teacher still out and zero communication. I was not ok with that. I didn’t get anywhere with that communication either but S17 did get it worked out on his own with the now returned teacher post mid winter break who did finally provide test results and did update/change his grade for the previous semester. Only because he followed up on it. For most of the class, it remained out of date and whatever was in there in Mid December, stayed.

I think it’s a fine line on the AP versus regular class, versus honors. I would rather they were successful in class, than struggling and it can be hard sometimes to know what the right placement is. I do know that S17 is very happy he sat out APUSH and the lack of stress there has spilled over to greater enjoyment in other classes, but also in regular US History. He gets to shine there now, isn’t bothered by the rest of the class, and drives a lot of political discussion which apparently the teacher is eating up, so is adoring the class he has. Find a fit. Don’t fit a find. I suspect this “regular” US History teacher will end up being an LOR. You just never know.

D14 was hit by senioritis, she rallied but it does bear considering as the 17’s register for senior year. In some ways being “forced” to have 1.5 years of PE all in your senior year because of scheduling conflicts…is not the worst thing.

@Mom2aphysicsgeek that’s sad about the kids with the class ranking. I had never thought about that too for graduate programs. So were the parents not happy with the consequences of their choice? Why bring it up if the kids were? Very interesting. And really, is it always a choice? A kid can work super hard and well, there is just that other kid that’s going to be in the top spot. Or those other 2 ore more kids. Our HS doesn’t rank and I am glad. It’s a newer change and I think a good one. I am with you on budget and it will be an interesting ride with S19 as his sights are set very differently than the other 3. I’ll support him in it but he’s going to have to find money to make his dreams happen. The good news is he knows that, and has always known that. I’ll help him find money but it’s his dream to own. To that end, it doesn’t stress me out, it will just be a very different ride.

1831

@SincererLove No he didn’t. Are those officially announced? I have never seen an official CB announcement. Area school has published online the few times they have had one or both of the state AP scholars. Most recent year I remember seeing (wasn’t last year) had the winning boy with 17 tests and an average score just under my son’s (presumably difference was one point on one exam). I don’t know what was required to win last year.

The AP awards are interesting because kids really don’t get to use them. What you finally obtain isn’t know until after you graduate. So you can’t put it on a college app. You put one rung below where you likely finished.

Swim teams are tough. We had a neighbor on the swim team and there is no way she got 7 hours of sleep many nights. Was up at 4 or 4:30 a few days a week for practice. And I am pretty sure they practiced after school some days as well.

1832

@eandesmom I don’t think the parents were unhappy with their kids UG choices, but just wishing that their kids subsequent options were not impacted by them. They all stated their kids had phenomenal UG experiences. The gist was more along the lines that their students ended up at 2nd or 3rd choice grad programs bc their top choice received the recommendation of another higher performing student (even though their student was an incredibly strong student themself.)

It is just something I had not considered. When students apply to REUs or co-ops they need LOR from their professors. When they apply to grad school they need their dept’s endorsement and recommendation. My kids have not run into a situation so far where those recommendations went to another student. I think that is bc they are high performing, extremely motivated students who excel in their schools’ depts. In hindsight, Gladwell’s theory makes sense. (Though I was not aware of it when we started this process with our oldest. It makes me feel like things will work out well for our current college student who wants to pursue grad school. He has had no problems getting LOR for REU applications,etc.)

1833

@Mom2aphysicsgeek Thanks for the big fish, little pond post. I frequently copy links to certain posts and save them away by topic so that when I have these conversations with my D, I can look at some good ways of phrasing things, or I can have anecdotes to share. That was another good one for the archives. We also have a limited budget due to some difficult years, which really affected the 529 contributions.

We will come out of HS with 7-8 APs total, I think, which in our HS is considered pretty rigorous. Really the only input I’ve had on her class selection has been to forego APUSH in favor of USH Honors in order to give her a little more time of her own. She still studies more than any kid I know (things maybe don’t come as easily to her as some), but that’s all coming from within. She still has time for some, not too many, school-year ECs like lacrosse, piano (her passion…plays tuba in marching band and orchestra just for the social aspect), and more recently…a boyfriend :-O.

Re: conferences, I do think they are generally unnecessary if your kid is doing well. But, for those kids that are not doing well, they are probably useful. Too bad those seem to be the parents who don’t attend. Our high school is not small. My D’s class is about 900, so a little under 4000 kids total. I never email a HS teacher, which is why I go to the P-T conferences (twice a year). We also have P-GC meetings freshman and junior years.

Rank. Hated that D’s HS doesn’t rank when I first learned of it. Now, I’ve learned it just doesn’t matter…and I’m glad they don’t.

1834

I think everyone has to experience both being a big fish and being a small fish at other times in life. It is part of the whole buidling character, grit, resilience, etc. Small pond promotes confidence/self-esteem, big pond humility.

In the end, it all works out.

1835

@Mom2aphysicsgeek I agree with Gladwell’s theory and I don’t think it’s limited to academia. We experienced the same thing with competitive soccer team placement, and then with college recruiting as it spills over and can make a tenuous situation, worse.

I had not thought about the implications for REU LOR’s or for Grad School. Knowing the process and connecting the dots are two different things. It’s also a bridge we’ve not crossed yet so outside of my realm of experience to date. That may well change with D14 although to be fair, she’s a middle fish and is ok with that. Whether that remains true as we move towards grad school, if she does, will be interesting to see. I am also interested to see how some of her peers are doing as they end sophomore year, especially one Ivy soccer playing little fish and another Ivy soccer playing middle fish.

1836

The biggest thing is to know your kid I think. I am a proponent of Gladwell’s theory too. Also, I like the push toward allowing the kids some time to be kids and not always pushing to the limits. D15 pushed herself and ended up in a school where the majority of the students who matriculated were in the top 10% of their class. When we dropped her off and went to the parent seminar, they specifically said that these are kids who are used to being at the top. They all can no longer be top 10% and this will be hard for them. Luckily for D, she remains one of the top in her freshman class. S will be better served by being the big fish. He works hard, but needs some external pushing, although he is maturing and self motivation is appearing. He is solid, not elite. I am happy that his school does not have AP specific classes. The lack of choices (because you “have” to take specific and so many AP classes) and the busy work involved with the AP classes would kill him.

1837

Gladwell’s theory is very interesting to me. My ds and I are having this type of conversation right now as he thinks about college and creates his list for applications. He is actually motivated to attend a more difficult college (big pond) just because he never feels like he has experienced being challenged. But - I feel like grad school is the time to choose the highly selective place because, well, college is expensive and it can go on for many years if you want a phd (which he does). I also would like to see him take advantage of the significant merit aid that I’m pretty sure will be available to him (2400 SAT score and 224si on PSAT - top 1% in his class) but most of that aid is available at places he is less familiar with.

He also feels pressure at his school to be different in his college choices. Close to 20% of the kids every year from his hs go to our state’s best public university - which is an excellent choice for undergrad. That is a deterrent for him as he has worked so hard to be his best and struggles to see himself pick the same place that “everybody else picks” not to mention the fact that this school has almost zero merit aid unless you get the very small number (like 20?) of full ride scholarships they have.

I told him I’m just getting off the bus for a while and letting him drive the thing around and try to find what he is comfortable with in this process. I’m going to love him and support him either way but I would like to see him come to this decision more on his own so he is comfortable with it for the long term.

As far as signing up for classes, he’s taking 3 AP’s his senior year. He’s taking 5 this year and took 2 last year. His school doesn’t offer AP english or any AP history so his decision came down to AP Physics (in addition to AP Chem) or an advanced math modeling class (in addition to Calc BC). I really don’t know how universities can compare students because the actual environment that they are placed in (and the accompanying rigor) affects what kinds of classes they take so much. My oldest daughter changed high schools three times and was seriously penalized at college application time because the school she graduated from was nothing like her first two high schools (in Asia) and so her gpa looked weak. Her last school used 9th and 10th grade to grossly inflate gpa with “honors” classes that were not remotely as difficult as the classes she took in Asia (where honors did not exist). Well it worked out anyway - she loves where she is.

I have enjoyed reading this thread and look forward to bouncing stuff off of yall in the future. To me, this process took forever to get here and now that it’s here (for this kid), it seems like its moving too fast to even process correctly.

1838

I can’t believe I said my D’s boyfriend counts as an EC. I need to take a CC break.

1839

@crazym0m, is your son interested in small LACs? We found that there are a few of these schools that have competitive full ride merit scholarships for high stat kids. Your S qualifies for that label.

1840

Sigh, senior year schedule is complicated for DS because he’s run out of math, science, and CS at his school. So far, it looks like:

AP Lit
AP Econ (Macro?, 1 sem) / AP US Gov’t (1 sem)
Engineering Capstone (2 periods)
???
???

He’s already taken or is taking AP Calc BC, Physics B, Chemistry, Biology, CompSci, APUSH, English Lang, Spanish (well, IB Spanish SL, but he’ll take the AP test). He’s taken dual-enrollment Discrete Math, biology, and geology, and is taking Multivariable online now.

They don’t offer AP Physics C, though he’s done physics with calculus here and there and might be able to take the Mechanics test now (but the test is the same day as AP Biology). He isn’t interested in AP Stats, AP EnvSci, or AP Psych, which are the remaining APs offered except for art and other languages. He’d like to take both AP Econs, but the school makes scheduling that difficult (7am only).

We recently had our junior year meeting with his GC. She plans to nominate him for a program at our local UC that lets high school seniors take classes and get personal advising. Kids can’t register until the first day of classes, but the program communicates with professors in advance to save spaces. Between the UC and the local community college, he can probably get classes he wants.

Finding classes that fit his schedule will be difficult though, since he really wants to be at the high school at lunch for his clubs 4-5 days a week. Also, the CC is semesters and the UC is quarters. And, college schedules are mostly MWF and TuTh, but his school has a MTuF schedule and different W and Th schedules. Logistics!

His GC didn’t encourage him to fill out his schedule with non-weighted art/media electives. Because the UCs have a category for art credits, unweighted art classes count against his academic GPA. And, he wants STEM classes anyway.

She said it would be good to have a lot of class ideas to consider, so that he can find a couple that work with his schedule. Classes he’s interested in at the CC or UC are Linear Alg, Astronomy, CS classes, Circuits (1st electrical engineering course), Statics (1st mechanical engineering course), or possibly more geology. If he can’t get LinearAlg or for math other quarters, he might think about a more challenging statistics class or symbolic logic in the philosophy dept.

I suppose he could take English, Econ, and US Gov’t at the CC or UC instead of at the HS. That would leave only the clubs and the Engineering Capstone, which he thinks he wants to do, but isn’t yet sure. So, actually all the HS classes are sort of optional, and he could end up just at the local UC next year (except for lunchtime clubs).