Parents of the HS Class of 2019 - 3.0 to 3.4 GPA

Parents Forum
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I am a Rutgers grad. I’ve said this here before and here I go again. I was a double major and graduated summa cum laude. I don’t mention that as a brag but to emphasize that despite being a very strong student (back in the day, before kids), I am confident that not one professor in the highly respected department knew my name when I graduated. The professors from the smaller, less-prestigious department couldn’t do enough for me. I got a mediocre education and I don’t think I was particularly well-prepared for graduate school. Besides the bus situation, this is a big reason why I try to encourage my kids to consider schools where there is a strong emphasis on undergraduate education. Rutgers might be a research university but I think the kids at TCNJ are getting more opportunities for doing research. Not one of my kids would be happy in a competitive environment.

@4kids4us My D loves Mount St. Mary’s and we have visited a few times. It has D1 sports. It is small and feels somewhat remote, and I was told that is a factor in their freshman retention rate and graduation rate. But it seems that the students who stay and graduate do well for themselves, because the loan default rate is much lower than comparable colleges. The alumni I’ve met are enthusiastic about the school.

I have been concerned about the finances of MSM and that is my biggest reservation. But recently I’ve looked into other small, rural, private colleges and they are not much different and are all very tuition dependent at a time when it’s harder to keep enrollment up. Three of the schools my D likes are similar in that way. But they are all wonderful schools where average or above average kids can get a great education.

I get the feeling MSM is moving in the direction of offering more practical majors rather than the liberal arts. They are fundraising to expand and update their science facilities but it will be too late for us.

My D really likes the friendliness of the kids at MSM. Etown also stood out that way. Both places are very welcoming. My impression after visiting both places multiple times is that Etown seems more polished somehow, confident in what they are doing, and at least during visits, the professors seem extremely engaged. MSM gives more of an impression that that they are trying to hone their mission, while Etown has it down. We have not been to Susquehanna yet for a formal visit to compare but what we saw was beautiful, especially the science facilities.

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I realize this wasn’t the central part of what you were talking about, but when people say things phrased like…

…I have to respond: What’s so impractical about, say, chemistry? Or statistics? Or even English? (The world needs a lot of editors, after all).)

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We did a campus tour at Shippensburg (The Ship) on Saturday morning. The admissions office did a power point presentation followed by about a 75 minute walking tour. We did get to tour a model dorm room which was very nice, some of the rooms have heated floors in the bathroom. The fitness center was also very nice. The classroom that we toured seemed a bit dated and my D commented that it reminded her of her high school classroom. I think we were the only people from out of PA, which seemed to turn D off. Not a lot of activity on campus but is was a Saturday and somewhat early in the morning. They also made a comment in the presentation that if there were any seniors in the crowd they would waive the application fee if they wanted to apply on the spot. While the campus was beautiful I do not think it is going to make the short list. Apparently, too small (7,000 students), nothing around it and too many kids from PA.

Despite D claiming she wanted a bigger school we decided to drive an additional 25 minutes to check out Dickinson College. We did our own tour based on a map we printed out. We were all very impressed with the size and beauty of the campus, seems large for only 2,500 students. We all agreed that the couple of streets breaking up the campus took away a little of the charm. The surrounding town of Carlisle was also great. She liked that there were a lot of people out and about on and near campus.

She mentioned on the car ride home that she wanted a larger sized Dickinson (beautiful campus with a charming\quaint town attached), something probably over 15,000 students but under 30,000. I know that is a very wide range so the search goes on.

We have the following tours scheduled: JMU (22,000), West Chester(17,000), Delaware (23,000), Towson (23,000) and UMBC (14,000). Open to any other suggestions.

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@DCNatFan There are a lot of schools in that 26,000 range. Is UVM too small (or to far?) at 11,000? It’s got the quintessential college town aspect in spades and tons of OOS kids. U Mass?

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@DCNatFan I would use 10K as the cutoff and not 15K. Once you get above certain point, a school doesn’t feel small. For my kids some 8K schools have seemed large enough; others have not. I agree on the UVM suggest. Probably one of my favorite college towns and UVM seems bigger than it is. Always lots of activity going on.

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@SwimmingDad Thanks for the tip. UVM (just over 13k students) is on our list but may be a little too pricey for us without some merit aid. We will look at other schools at around 10-15k and then work our way up from there.

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@DCNatFan don’t rule out merit at UVM. My S17 received a lovely offer, better than expected, which brought it (barely) into range. They do seem holistic on the offers.

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We had the same experience as @eandesmom

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@dfbdfb I think smaller, less selective colleges in rural areas are facing declining enrollment and they think they can lure students and parents with programs that at least appear to have a very clear career path. That’s what I mean by practical.

I agree that the liberal arts gives truly practical skills because they are skills like careful reading, analyzing information, writing, communicating, etc., that can be applied in any career field, not to mention everyday life.

As a parent, I struggle with this. My D18 specifically wants to study the liberal arts. I’m pretty confident she will be fine anywhere she ends up. But for D20, I’m much more nervous. The idea of her having a clear career path is reassuring, even though I see the limitations.

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We went ahead with the Frostburg open house on Saturday even though it was freezing with the crazy winds. Had the typical admission video and a Q&A panel with current students. It was very organized and D thought the people were friendly. Her first impressions - too small. She liked the mountains and the people a lot but the stadium/gym reminded us both of H.S. facilities. The dorms were nice and Edgewood Commons had really nice quads that she could definitely see herself living in. She didn’t ‘feel’ it but doesn’t regret going because it helped her decided what she does like. Towson is still top so far. We are visiting Salisbury and Christopher Newport. Though CNU is the same enrollment size, I think she will like the location and facilities quite a bit more. I am hoping she loves Salisbury but that is a long shot. We have UNC-Wilmington on the schedule too as well as Coastal. She also wants to see WVU but not sure that will be the right match. Not sure of much right now…LOL.

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Amazingly, current school issues notwithstanding, I think we are done looking. We have a list and are all content with saying we don’t need to look further and add to it.

It will get cut down but it is a very manageable list and several on there we all feel pretty good about. S17 wants to tour the local ones over spring break (his request).

He absolutely loved my “fit factor” ranking system and agreed with how things ended up, which really helped him cut some schools with zero pain.

And then there were 11!

Drexel
Seattle University
Colorado State
Rochester Institute of Technology
University of Washington-Bothell
Western Washington University
Santa Clara University
Northern Arizona
Portland State
University of Washington-Seattle
Macalester

He wants to apply to 7 as that’s what S17 applied to. Which I suppose is as good a reason as any. Gut instinct is that UW Seattle, PSU, Santa Clara get cut and he’s left with 8 unless he decides to let go of Macalester.

For DH and I, we are really leaning towards the Drexel/RIT Co Op model as being best for S17, with Seattle U and UW Bothell as being solid local safeties, WWU as well. CSU is a bit of an outlier but really, other than size, hits everything the kid wants and we have family there so…S17 is very attached to NAU as a safety and it’s an auto admit so an easy one to keep in the mix. For that one though I think I’d only be comfortable if he got into the honors college. Which is possible there (but not likely at CSU).

I do wish UW was like the UC’s in terms of being one application and just check which box. It’s too large for S17 and he’s unlikely to get in. But I think he’d like to see if he could. Unfortunately I hear that one is a bit of a bear.

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@eandesmom, after an appointment with the residency officer at UW, my D19 is likely to get the instate status in admission process of Washington State Universities even she is studying in overseas HS. However, her GPA in Junior drop a lot under the rigorous IB program and her ACT is estimated to be around 24 (a pretest in prep school). She will take the first attempt in April. Recently, my D19 has a better direction for her major in college. She prefer to study criminology, psychology or even film study. She might apply for UW Bothell for psychology and NAU for criminology. However, she prefers to have a colorful college life in big city, like NYC, but our budget is limited to 25k per year (include tuition and all living expense)! If she would like to boost her ACT score during coming summer, any suggestion on online good Apps or program, there are so many offers online!

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@ashmomhk

That is great news, congratulations!

UW Bothell is only 20-30 minutes from downtown Seattle so she can get to the city if she wants. NAU is in Flagstaff, a wonderful city and WWU in Bellingham, which is a wonderful city and college town. All are really great options and will give a very very different experience. What is her GPA?

That said, even with WUE, NAU will come in more than 25, closer to 27-28. It is an auto grant though, versus gpa or score based which is nice. If you need to stay under 25 then your best/only bet will be WWU (Western) and UW Bothell. Kids from our HS seem to look at these 2 different ways. The UW Bothell kids either want to stay close to home or didn’t get into UW and will try to transfer in after 2 years. Or they just want something much much smaller.

In our case it is more that UW is too large, too impacted and even if he does get in, he might drown (and I’m an alumn so that’s hard to say!). Western is just far enough away and in a really great college town that unless you want football, it’s a fantastic option for many of the kids. We know lots at both. I would strongly encourage you to add Western to the list.

You could also consider Portland State, if she qualifies for in state, in theory she will qualify for WUE but like NAU it won’t be under 25. It will be under 30 though. That would get her the urban experience she wants.

PSU’s academic requirements for WUE: 3.2 cumulative unweighted high school GPA OR 1270 SAT OR 27 ACT composite.

As for online I would definitely do Khan academy test prep, it’s free. there are a lot of other options out there but for online I can’t say I’ve seen anything that shows the paid ones have better results than Khan for free. Our oldest did Kaplan online only because Khan wasn’t offering it back then. We’d have done free if we could.

If she really wants UW main campus, and goes to UW Bothell, she can take some cross campus credits at the main campus. There are limits to it, but it is an option. It will be easier to transfer to the main campus from UW Bothell than other schools, unless she does a CC path.

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Whoa, congrats on finalizing a list already @eandesmom! My current goal for a list is “at least 4 to 6 weeks before applications are due”

We are currently a bit lost - I think S19 decided he wants to pursue a music major. I need to work on him to get him to accept the practicality of a second major and a backup plan. I have no idea what his chances would be at any particular school beyond “poor” at the top schools. But once you get past those, I have no idea what the relative competition level is like at “lesser” schools. I guess I’ll have to learn somehow.

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@eh1234 Do you mean top music schools or just top schools in general? And who defines “lesser”? Some of the best music schools around our area might not be top in other things but are incredibly well regarded for music.

For music I’d head over to the music forum for input, it’s a fairly robust forum I think

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I mean top music schools. By “lesser,” I mean a school where a kid who is not first chair in a metropolitan youth orchestra and playing graduate level repertoire in 9th grade might have a chance at a spot in a studio. I am not looking at schools that are tops in academics, and I don’t care if a school isn’t great academically if it would be a good fit for music.

The music forum is robust, but not terribly helpful for the less accomplished music student (probably because these students don’t normally major in music!) I’ve started one or two threads but they didn’t really go anywhere although I got one or two suggestions.

My son’s interest in playing seriously cropped up in the last couple of years and it may very well be too late for him to decide he wants to pursue it even though he is all of 16. He is going to spend a week at Oberlin this summer so maybe he can get a better sense of where he might fit in terms of ability level.

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@eh1234 have you looked at some of the SUNYs or West Chester and IUP in PA?

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@mommdc I will probably take a look at the SUNYs and I didn’t know that Westchester had such a comprehensive music school. Seems to be worth a look. IUP lists no bass faculty which doesn’t seem to be that uncommon.

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@eh1234 gotcha!

Well Oberlin falls into the conservatory category and is competitive academically but I am sure will be a good litmus rest on a lot of levels.

I have no idea beyond the bigger names back east. We’ve some solid nice ones here but I don’t think you want the PNW and if Midwest is an option maybe Lawrence? Indiana is pretty competitive and I’ve no clue how it is for low brass.

I’d post on the main 19 forum as it’s a bigger pool and you might get some nice ideas.

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@eh1234 -

If you are looking at SUNY’s, is he interested in teaching, performing, compositions or what? For music education, SUNY Fredonia is a top rated choice (full disclosure, my S17 attends there, but is not a music student). It’s also good for performance and composition. If your son is a bassist, they have a strong program. My friend’s son is there for music education and is a bassist, he is very happy.

Potsdam is good for performance but I have not met one person who likes the area and that includes kids who attended Clarkson. Plattsburgh also has a good music department with many performance opportunities but you can’t become a music teacher there, although you can become an elementary school teacher with a music concentration (as my D did).