I’ve been following this thread for a while and finally had to chime in! I too have an S19 who is ending junior year with a 3.5 due primarily to missing assignments and a general lack of commitment, with a mediocre class rank (~40%), yet a pretty solid SAT score. Taken together it all shows he is not working at potential. I know that colleges see HS grades as a more predictive indicator of college success… and I agree. But I also know people (myself included) who developed a stronger motivation in college. My dilemma is whether to encourage a small LAC that might better foster that maturation process through tighter faculty relationships and a higher concentration of other motivated students, but run the risk of a fairly expensive “spectacular crash and burn” (so perfectly characterized by @fwtxmom)… or should I encourage cc or a local state directional where there is a little less at stake ($, but also all that emotion and stress that goes along with the college application process we are about to embark on). Phew. I hope that makes sense. Long winded response!
Why would only a single low test score be an indication of test anxiety? I would think that someone who has anxiety would experience it during most testing situations.
Missing assignments may also be an indication of executive functioning deficits , not just a lack of commitment. It’s important to determine why the assignments are missing in order to address the issue appropriately before college .
FWIW, there’s lots and lots (and even lots) of good educational research out there showing that high school grades are a better predictor of collegiate academic success (however measured) than standardized test scores.
This is the case even in cases where grade inflation (which has happened over the decades, moreso at the secondary than the postsecondary level) plays a role. It’s hard to measure this, but the only way that works is that apparently secondary-school grade inflation has been a national trend, and has taken hold fairly evenly across the board geographically.
For our part, D is lopsided with good GPA and low test scores. I do worry that it could look like grade inflation, but I hope her application will illustrate how diligently she works at the harder classes. I do believe that her perseverance and time management skills are well developed for her age. On the other hand, I am also encouraging her to continue testing until her scores match her GPA, to eliminate any lack of clarity.
@dfbdfb A few of us were merely hypothesizing that a high SAT/ACT coupled with a B to B+ GPA might mean our kids are capable of doing better in the future than they have in the past. This isn’t meant to detract from anyone else.
@carolinamom2boys you said:
My D19 did almost no test prep because she had no way to duplicate her actual testing conditions with audio accommodations. There’s no doubt in my mind that she benefited from testing under conditions that were better adapted for her learning style than the everyday classroom. She said testing with audio accommodations was like riding a bike downhill compared to walking uphill carrying heavy weights (how she views regular reading).
@Corinthian there is no hard and fast answer . Any number of things can go into test performance. It’s just frustrating to me as a parent of a child who has difficulty with standardized testing to hear the grade inflation argument which negates his effort while someone touts “untapped potential” when someone has high test scores that are inconsistent with their GPA. Why give one the benefit of the doubt over the other ? The implication is one is smarter than their grades would indicate while the other is not as smart as their grades indicate. Hard to hear as a parent .
@carolinamom2boys I only mentioned grade inflation when you specifically asked me to theorize about possible reasons for low test score/high GPA mismatches, and only then as one of several possible explanations. I also took your question to be a general hypothetical and not a personal question about your kid. I also referenced all the arguments of the FairTest people about why standardized tests are flawed. Read the last sentence of my post #1125. My D19 has felt through most of her school career that her peers and teachers considered her to be “dumb” or slow. She is finally starting to figure out that she learns differently from a lot of other people and is learning to find ways to adapt. She also has lots of time management and organizational issues to overcome. Like all parents I look for encouraging signs of progress (such as an unexpectedly high ACT score), and in no way mean that to be slighting anyone else’s kid.
@Corinthian grade inflation is a common topic on this forum. I’m sure that you and your daughter do get frustrated when she is made to feel " dumb or slow". That would not feel good to anyone. That’s exactly my point. No one wants to be made to feel " less than " based on grades or test scores. I’m just trying to share how someone in the other postion is also made to feel inadequate. Grade inflation suggests to that student , " you’re not as smart as you think that you are and your high grades are insignificant" Both students are hurt by these concepts. That was the point of my post, it was not to criticize you.
@carolinamom2boys I was the one who mentioned “untapped potential” and it was in reference to my own S. I don’t have to give him the benefit of the doubt about his potential because I know his capabilities from a many data points: raising him, years of learning disability testing (he has 4 different diagnoses which were teased out bit by bit through testing from K-7th grades) and constant teacher feedback about the serious mismatch of his work product and their perception of his abilities. School has been a very long and painful journey for him but at this point I don’t need the SAT to tell me his abilities.
I wish he had your sons’ work habits but he doesn’t. He has learned to mostly hate school because it is structured in a way that hits his serious weaknesses. He also has executive function deficits that are just starting to improve and makes consistent poor study decisions. He’s very similar to his father who had to fail out of college and join the army before he found his feet academically. My S’s grades are a very accurate reflection of his lack of effort.
In general, life’s prizes go to the hard workers. I never meant my comments to reflect on anyone’s child but my own. @daisychayn You have captured my fears about whether to engage in the extra work, investment and potential heartache of sending a kid like mine and yours off to a more expensive college vs. state u. perfectly.
@carolinamom2boys The grade/ACT mismatch is killing me. My one twin has ADHD and zero motivation to tackle anything she doesn’t like. I’m hoping that a small LAC will give her the attention and tools that she needs, but you are correct that there is a risk she’ll just fail. Ugh. I think I’m being naive in hoping going off to an incredible school will flip a work ethic switch. Maybe she should should stay closer to home at the less competitive school. Now…I need a drink or m&ms!
I understand your point @carolinamom2boys but just want to make two comments. First, I don’t think grade inflation is a concept that most high schoolers hear much about, and the kid who gets high grades presumably gets constant validation from both teachers and parents and has for years. And rightly so.
Second, and to repeat, I only brought up grade inflation as one of several possible explanations for a high grade test score mismatch. You asked me to speculate about possible reasons but then one of my speculated reasons obviously hit a nerve. It was not directed at your personal situation because I perceived your question as being an abstract question about hypothetical situations. As such I think it was valid to list grade inflation as one of many possible explanations in a hypothetical scenario about such a mismatch, just as there can be MANY possible explanations for a low grade/high test score mismatch, including such unappealing explanations as laziness or poor work ethic.
And I totally agree with the statement by @fwtxmom that life’s prizes go to the hard workers. My D19 is interested in being pre-med and I’ve told her repeatedly that a high GPA in college is essential to get into medical school and if she wants to pursue that path she needs to figure out how to improve her time management and organizational skills. Nobody on the medical school admissions committee will care that she got a high ACT score back in 11th grade. But for now I’m using the high ACT score as encouragement to say “you can do it” and counter the voice inside her head that tells her: you’re not smart, you can’t do it.
And again same here @TwinMom2023 . I am hoping the small class size and personal attention of the LAC will maximize S’s chances of success in college. Most importantly, S really prefers the LACs to the state Us we have toured. However, I share your exact concerns. Why should we send S off to a pricey school when he has been so academically disengaged? It’s a risk, no doubt.
@fwtxmom @ Corinthian also mentioned untapped potential. I agree that life’s prizes go to the hard workers. Students with good grades are also hard workers , it doesn’t come easy for everyone. Everyone has struggles . In response to grade inflation, @Corinthian while HS students may not hear about it, there are some judgemental parents who hold this opinion and share it with their children. I actually hear it quite frequently" if my child went to the school across town or to the public school that were zoned for he’d have straight As" So yes , it strikes a nerve.
We would like to check out the possibility of Early Admission as my D19 is so nervous that she will not be accepted by any “reasonable” college. We hope in securing the early admission and help her out of the anxiety during last year of IB diploma. Can we apply more than one colleges for early admission and secure for only one after the offer, if more than one offers? What is the strategy for early admission process, aim at which level of college - reach or safe?
My D is also worried about getting “shut out” @ashmomhk as she has a friend (class of 2018) who was not accepted to any of the colleges on her list (but for a performing arts program, where admissions can be far more selective).
So far our strategy will be to apply to a few rolling admissions colleges first, so she can (hopefully) get at least one acceptance in the beginning part of senior year. She does plan to apply to several colleges Early Action (which is non-binding) as well.
I’m planning to have my kid apply to all schools early. All the potential schools he is considering have EA except for one that is just rolling. I want all his applications to be done by Nov 1. Then, if rejections do start rolling in, you’ve got time to fix it in the RD round. I know some selective schools have restrictions on how many EA schools you can apply to, but I’ve never seen any at the schools in our kids range.
My older D did this. She had six acceptances before Christmas and was done. Then she just had to decide.
@me29034 my DS16 did the same, and it certainly made for a much less stressful second semester in senior year.
I see no downside in completing all the EA colleges as soon as possible. Senior year with a busy schedule is going to be hectic enough, best to get the bulk of the work finished during the summer.
Maybe Elon, dcnatfan.good education major, similar to other schools on list