Parents of the HS Class of 2019 (Part 1)

I’d say that many schools value test scores over rigor. Most merit scholarships are based on GPA and test scores , not transcripts or rigor. If prepping for a standardized test helps my son earn scholarship money to attend a school that he wants , and he’s willing to put in the work, what’s the harm?

So here’s the thing. Life isn’t fair. It simply isn’t. The college admissions process is no different. The reality is, what is fair and/or an advantage is subjective.

Some kids can afford private test prep. Some cannot

Some kids can afford to take the ACT or SAT multiple times to try and improve scores. Some cannot (but won’t qualify for a fee waiver).

Some kids will have no idea they should take SAT 2’s for certain schools and may miss the window and/or can’t afford to take them.

Some kids can’t afford to take an AP test (or qualify for a waiver) or their school offers limited or no AP’s.

Some kids have no options for honors classes at their school or are tracked in math at an early age and not allowed to move up which may limit them from qualifying to even apply at certain schools.

Most kids don’t have access to IB programs.

Some schools weight, some do not. Some schools rank, some do not.

Some will have a college application class as a required senior elective, or work on essays in AP Lit. Some will not.

Some will have a SAT prep class as an elective, or offer special prep sessions on weekends, etc, some will not.

Some kids might like to take a SAT prep class but can’t fit it into their schedule for whatever perfectly legit reason.

Some may not even be informed that they can practice with Kahn, for free, online.

At the end of the day all anyone can do is take advantage of what opportunities you have, seek out or are willing to pay for. It’s pretty much how the world works, rightly or wrongly and kids learning that and leveraging that as best suits them well…that’s a life skill they all need…

@carolinamom2boys Please don’t take my comments personally. They weren’t meant that way.

I just think that four years of classes is a better way to judge a student. A test score can be achieved in many ways and most colleges will never know how many times the student takes the test or how many hours it took to prep to get the score. It’s not a good predictor of how well a student will do in college. This was proven back in 2014 and continues to be proven by schools who have taken the risk and decided to be test optional.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/02/19/study-finds-little-difference-academic-success-students-who-do-and-dont-submit-sat

Just bums me out than any student has to spend time preparing for a standardized test. Certainly seems that GPA, class rigor, essays, and recommendations should be plenty to determine if a student would be successful. Our S19 works hard all school-year long in rigorous classes and gets good grades. That’s what will make him a successful college student - not the time he will have to spend prepping this summer for the SAT. Makes me sad that he will have to spend any of his summer doing that!

Your post just reminded me that standardized testing has now come full circle and some schools actually offer prepping as a class. I just didn’t know!

One thing I’ll say about using GPA for merit scholarships- a student at our school who gets all As in regular level classes is no where near the student who gets As in AP and honors classes. The difference is huge! If schools don’t look at transcripts, they cannot possibly know what kind of student they are getting.

@homerdog Does you school not weigh GPAs with AP and Honors classes? Those students would most likely have higher GPAs . I didn’t say schools don’t look at transcripts. I said they look at test scores and GPAs. They also get a counselor’s report that speaks to rigor of courseload . Schools are looking for objective ways to determine merit scholarships , test scores and GPA are one way to do that .

I agree that how one scores on a test is not always the best way to measure what “kind” of student they will be getting. That’s why it is good to be able to retake a test. Also, standardized tests are given nationwide . Many schools are guilty of grade inflation or deflation. Tests even the playing field.

There’s a lot of inequity in the college application process. It is not always pleasant or fair, but it’s something to be dealt with.

Personally, I think that it’s great that schools offer prep classes. That way students who would have no other way to prepare are given some guidance and assistance somewhere they have to go everyday. They don’t have to worry about transportation, cost, not helping out with family obligations. I see it as a benefit. I guess it’s all in how you look at things.

Oh, and by the way in terms of “playing the game”, my son is actually taking a hit to his GPA by taking a regular college prep class instead of another honors or AP to boost his GPA. He takes classes that he wants or needs not ones to boost his GPA. We don’t play games. Didn’t need to for DS16 , and we won’t for DS19 either.

Our school doesn’t weight or rank so we do hope that rigor is considered against the school profile but the reality is we are a large school with rotating GC’s who don’t know the kids at all and heaven only knows what kind of letter the kids will get.

It is unequal. My S17 is a horrendous test taker and the reality is it hurts his merit opportunities and limits his college list as a result because we are full pay but can’t afford full pay. I can be mad about it or, I can find schools that value what he does bring to the table and value the strong parts of his app. There really is a place for all and I think there is nothing wrong with leveraging what you can.

Yes. Our high school weights GPAs. Maybe the colleges that use GPAs for merit use the weighted number. In that case, the straight A student with regular level classes would have a 5.0/5.0 and the honors student would have a 6.0/5.0. I guess I assumed that the colleges that use GPA for merit must use unweighted since high schools use so many different systems and they would want to look at apples to apples.

I’m afraid my point is that these tests do not in fact level the playing field. Many kids cannot afford to get prep or take tests multiple times. It’s just another way for families with resources to get better college offers. As @eandsmom points out, that’s life. But I don’t like it.

I’m not criticizing anyone for studying for these tests. I’m criticizing a system where it now makes sense for kids to take prep classes for a test that makes money for the College Board instead of taking an elective where they could be learning something interesting.

Testing is very frustrating . DS16 did much better on the ACT than the SAT. The conversion of his ACT score to SAT was actually higher than the NMSF cut off, but that scholarship is based SAT scores only. Is that frustrating? Yes. Is that necessarily fair? No. Are those the rules that I have to deal with? Yes . I can choose to remain irritated or I can choose to let it go. I choose to worry about things I have some control over.

How colleges view gpa is one of the great mysteries of life lol. I think many recalculate to their own formulas and others do not.

I kind of like the UC system. It’s a straightforward ranking based on course type and you can easily see what your UC gpa is. Not that we can afford any UC schools but it is clear.

Yes. Even using GPA on our school’s Naviance is tricky. Only weighted GPA is there…and there are so many ways to get to that GPA. A student could have mostly As in regular level classes and hover around a 5.0. Or a student could take almost all honors classes, get all Bs, and have that same 5.0. So…we can’t really tell what kind of classes each student took by just looking at GPA. I guess all you can do is what is always suggested - take the classes that seem right for you and get the best grade you can!

Here is the way I think about test prep (and other efforts to enhance college admissions) and privilege.

The right choice for one student/family may not be the right choice for another student even in the same family.

Within that framework I recognize that my kids have a huge amount of privilege in this system. The very fact that I am on this forum educating myself so that I can best help them is a huge plus. We talk a lot in our family about the privilege we have in so many ways (usually use the term “Blessed” in our family conversations). The answer for us is to appreciate that privilege, and fight to change the world in big ways and small to help others to have the advantages we do.

If you can afford test prep and your child is willing and able to benefit from it go for it. But personally I also think about ways I can help make good education available for all. When the time comes to vote I pay attention to not just the big races but the local stuff too and always support the candidates who want to improve education for all students.

Our public school doesn’t have SAT/ACT prep classes. DS19’s English teacher pulled him a a few other kids out of class separately to talk to them about how she felt they weren’t being challenged in class. She ask each one if there was anything they wanted to work on. DS told her he felt he needed to work on his writing. So she is going to give him extra writing assignments. DS’s french teacher did the same sort of thing. He now has extra reading assignments in French. At the end of the day whether a school has prep classes or not there are going to be teachers like his who go the extra mile to challenge kids to learn more. I just wish there were more of them.

Word to the wise for folks in their first rodeo. If your child is taking the PSAT today (ours isn’t until 11/2) and they check the box that they would like to recieve communications…expect the mail to start up, both snail mail and email. It is optional and they do not have to check it.

This entire admissions system is really difficult. I have a reasonably bright kid with LDs at a rigorous school (private) with a crazy grading scale. I was just thinking about it today–she will end up with a 3.4 - 3.5 GPA (my estimation–who knows what will happen), a few honors classes, no APs based on the selection process at her school, an average+ SAT/ACT score (if we’re lucky–she doesn’t test well). She’s incredibly industrious, motivated, hard-working, well-rounded, passionate about a career in education and counseling and will be a great asset to some university. However, she will likely miss out on much-needed merit $$ because of the GPA and test scores. We will be full-pay, though I am a divorced mom. Or as someone said earlier, full-pay and can’t afford it. I hope I am wrong and we get some $$, but I’m mentally and financially preparing for the worst.

We will do the test prep to level the playing field and hope that one of her target schools values her unique, non-4.0 GPA profile. Sending good vibes for all of us to hang in there!

We like mail @eandesmom . I think that’s how my DS16 got on Clemson’s radar and was given provisional acceptance as a junior in HS. I agree though . If you’re environmentally friendly, you may want to forego the box. It is a lot of paper.

Are lots of sophomores taking the PSAT this fall? Our school has had them take it in the past on the same day as the juniors but, for some reason, is having the sophs take it in March instead. Other schools near us don’t have sophomores take it at all.

The one in spring is PSAT10, not the same one as what juniors take but designed for 10th graders (in competition with ACT’s PLAN test.) PSAT8 for middle schoolers is coming out to compete with ACT’s EXPLORE test. College Board is agressively marketing testing products. :frowning:

PSAT widely varies by school, district and state is seems.

At our school all sophomores take it for free (required to take it) on the same day as the juniors. The juniors have to pay but most/many take it.

@carolinamom2boys it’s funny. I like the mail to be honest and confess to saving fee waivers that S17 has no interest in…just in case he changes his mind! Well, I like most of it. I don’t like it when your child receives something from a school they have zero chance of getting into. S17 on the other hand, in general, hates the mail and wishes he would have known not to check the box but instead request directly from schools.

He hates most of it at any rate. As it gets closer some of the bigger beautiful books are being saved and studied :wink:

S19 and I were getting the mail a couple days ago and he asked if he would start to get the college mailers after the PSAT. I told him it depended on whether he checked the box and/or provided his email and it was up to him.

He wants the mail. LOL! I do think it can be a good way to learn about schools, especially ones outside your geographical area that you may never have heard of… It does surprise me that certain schools send SO much and they are schools that no interest has ever been expressed in. It’s a ton of waste.

@DeltaMom2019 we are full pay and can’t afford it either. There are definitely lots of options for kids in your D’s stat range, if that’s where she ends up. I’d check out some of the 3.0-3.4 threads, or “I got in without a 3.7” type ones to get ideas. If you target right, you can find merit for the A-/B+ student at many schools although it still may be more than you want to spend. We are going through this with S17 right now. 3.45 UW, 25 ACT, 3 honors and 6 AP’s. ADHD kid who is a miserable miserable test taker. He has a nice list of 7 schools he is applying to that meet his academic needs and fit well, we think. Only one is a financial safety. All (based on their NPC’s) should offer him some merit assuming he is accepted. It will be interesting to see how close the offers come in to the NPC and whether any are affordable. And, affordable is relative as best case scenario is still significantly higher than his in state safety, it will become a matter of how much both we, and he, want to stretch based on the options.

Mentally preparing for the worst is a sound strategy. We live by that and refuse to consider anything that doesn’t have a chance at being affordable.

Our school is giving the PSAT test to all sophomores today. Let us see how D19 fares in this one with a little prep last summer with Khan academy.

Wish all the students the very best who are taking the test!

Only 11th graders take the PSAT in our school.