@homerdog I agree, check on what credits your intended colleges will accept, but you might want to go beyond that. For example, Clemson engineering will technically accept calc credits from our local branch university’s Calc 1 course (as well as AP Calc), but they don’t recommend going that route. In their experience, the Clemson Calc 1 is more rigorous, and students who go straight into Clemson’s Calc 2 often struggle. One of S19’s best friends started in Clemson engineering this year - chose Calc 1, even with a 5 on the AP test - and watched others go through this.
@SammoJ exactly. College Calc moves faster than AP Calc unless one takes AP BC in one year. AP Calc AB is a semester course in college and a whole year in high school. It’s only the AP Calc BC course when it covers AB and BC in one year is the same pace since that covers two semesters of Calc.
Lots of kids retake at least some of their Calc in college to try to get their bearings. Some kids are just fine. Lots of kids we know at big state schools tried to take whatever their next class of Calc was and ended up dropping it and taking it at community college over the summer where it was easier and it transferred. Even some comp Sci kids we know did that!
S19 got no credit for BC or for MV and, after a placement test from the college, was not allowed to repeat any Calc. Took linear algebra and it was hard but he made it through with a lot of trips to see the professor.
There’s been some long threads on this on CC over the last couple of years. This decision is very college specific.
My D18 attends a top LAC. She got a 4 on the Calc BC test as a junior in HS and it was the toughest class she had in HS. Then took finite math as a senior through her state STEM magnet program instead of multivariable b/c she wanted a break.
Given all that, she was planning to re-take Calc 2 as a first semester freshman. Her advisor said basically it was a really tough class and that she should take the placement credit from her AP score and go ahead and take Calc 3. Calc 2 is not a true weed out class, but more of a wake up call for all the pre-med students, apparently,.
Just known as a very very hard course at her college which is already known for being tough in general.
I was dubious, but my D took the advice and worked her tail off in Calc 3 using office hours extensively and found a great study partner. She made an A- in that class and was over the moon. Fast forward – in a couple weeks she’s presenting research she did last summer at a national math conference and is a now minoring in math!
Anyway, my point is that every college is different and it’s important to do your research – there’s not a blanket answer and whether you should or should not repeat a semester of Calc.
Do the HS mathletes have to sit through many of the same classes in college like MV and Diff EQ that many will have taken/mastered? I am thinking of not only the USAMO qualifiers but the ones that make 8+ on the AIME. Many of those kids learned the material either in high school or on their own any might not have the ease of transferring in dual enrollment credit.
I’ve heard the same advice regarding AP’s. I find it both understandable/reasonable and frustrating at the same time.
I’m just glad that D is looking at lots of state schools, so there’s a good chance that she’ll actually get to make the decision of whether to use/not use the credits. At least she’ll be able to use her foreign language and history credits (and fingers crossed English) without guilt since she doesn’t want to pursue those (maybe a Spanish minor, but that’s it).
But two Math classes and two lab sciences - she’ll have to make that decision with some advising, for sure. With the potential for medical school - she has a whole other level of “do they accept AP credits” to think about. Some medical schools need multiple upper level courses if you take the AP credit. Have I mentioned I don’t love AP courses. Bring back Honors for juniors and seniors!
I agree! At our high school, you can take Honors English junior year, and D21 has absolutely loved it. She did Utopia/Dystopia first semester and the teacher is so creative in her approach. D wrote a paper about how the main character in the 1960’s story Heat Death of the Universe breaks free from her society’s expectations for women and embodies the goddess Kali. I learned a lot from discussing it with her! She also got to choose books, so she read The Handmaid’s Tale and Never Let Me Go. Both have female protagonists who D identified with. I loved seeing her fired up about English.
For next year, there is no Honors choice, so D wants to take AP Lit. However, D19 warned her that the books they read are completely male-centric and not D21’s cup of tea. Beowulf, Heart of Darkness, Picture of Dorian Gray. I tried to get D21 to take regular English because the choices are more interesting, and she has a lot of challenging classes, but she is worried that colleges will think she’s slacking off if she goes from Honors to regular. And colleges do say that they want your rigor to increase each year. Oh, well, she’ll find something to connect to in those books!
@inthegarden thank you for the St. John’s College suggestion. I first heard of it several years ago when my mother in law saw it (chaperoning a group of students from high school where she worked as they went on several college tours). We stopped by the St. John’s table at a Colleges That Change Lives fair but ultimately decided against an application there. I, too, love that it offers a unique experience for the right student. While S21 fits in some ways, he’s actually not the super intellectual type overall, and reading those philosophy books is a crazy challenge for him. He likes to include more tangible/applied material to his mix…a big issue is his processing speed (coupled with ADHD and executive function). His processing speed measured at an incredibly low percentile, and it’s a pervasive issue - processing speed affects reading, writing, math, you name it. As a result, as much as he likes history and a bit of philosophy, he’s probably better suited, when deadlines exist, to an interdisciplinary major with a bit less of a reading/writing load. For example, this past weekend he was getting excited about the great mix of classes required for an Environmental Studies major at one of the schools on his list - some classes were very much historical/philosophical/political/ethical which plays into that interest while others were more about reading and creating data, getting out in nature, etc.
We have the same issue many others have spoken to in terms of no real options other than AP in our high school (while S21 is homeschooled, D23s go to the local public and are already facing this as they set their sophomore year schedules. One daughter will take no APs ever, the other is likely looking at something close to 12 simply because those are the only paths available to her given what she’s already completed).
@inthegarden, that historical research class sounds phenomenal! So cool.
@nichols51, I understand! I’m probably a little like your son…I loved philosophy, anthropology, environmental science, and the deep and big questions growing up (to a point) yet was always the last in class to finish a test or assignment from first grade on. I even liked math concepts but got tripped up on computation error whenever I sped up to finish a test in math but also got zero’s on the questions I didn’t get to when I took the time I needed. Somehow, I thought that maybe a school like St. John’s is small enough and holistic enough to give each student an individualized education (even though they all have the same major and classes) but I didn’t think about that heavy reading load. It certainly wouldn’t be the right school for my D (but something similar that is bigger with a few more curriculum choices might be). I’m glad to hear he’s excited about a program he likes…nothing like seeing a spark of possibilty in your kid’s eyes! Do you mind mentioning the school (I’ll understand if you don’t want to…I’ve been a little evasive up to now about the range of my D’s choices, though I’ll probably spill the beans soon about some of our previous visits). For a while my D was talking a little about environmental studies but wasn’t sure…she has been more humanities/social science-oriented in general.
Yes, the historical research class is fantastic. It’s taught by her current AP US history teacher, so she’ll know what she’s getting into if she takes it! He’s been doing that class for a number of years and has amassed quite a collection of local/regional history resources for the community in doing the class. I’m very curious what topic he’s planning for next year.
@inthegarden yes…your description of yourself is similar to elements of my son’s personality! The school I was referencing is Knox College. We’re scheduled to go visit in May. (They are on a trimester system, so by going in mid May he will be able to sit in on a class before the students head home for the summer).
Hi @nichols51, I’ve heard really good things about that school! If we lived closer (or my daughter wanted to go farther) I’m sure we would be visitng Knox too.
My freshman year I went to a tiny school with a trimester system. I really liked that aspect of the school. Only three courses at a time, and we had a one-month interim course for a month after Christmas (usually something different and fun…I took sign language). I’m not a multi-tasker so it helped me focus. I transferred middle of sophmore year but it wasn’t because of the trimesters!
@inthegarden, it is really helpful to hear you say that the trimesters worked well for you given that, as you say, you are not a multi-tasker. My son is not a multi-tasker either, and my husband and I have been theorizing that a trimester calendar would be good for him (or even a 4-1-4 as opposed to a 5-5).
I did all 4 years at a school with trimesters, but as I didn’t have anything else to compare it to, I can’t recall thinking that it worked better for me vs. worse for me. It just was, and so I did it. I liked it. But I’m not much like my son in this regard. My executive function is probably overactive (haha) and my processing speed on the other end of the spectrum, etc., so my experience with trimesters might not apply to how it would work for him. My husband has ADHD (but didn’t really realize it at that stage of his life), and he feels the modified calendar systems would be helpful, so I think that is one of the many factors to be considered for the final decision next year.
I would check on the three classes at a time for schools on the quarter system. For many quarter system schools, you still take four classes and class moves very quickly.
Planning a few visits to bookend Presidents Day weekend. Deciding between Gettysburg, Franklin & Marshall, Dickinson, and Muhlenberg.
Dickinson has a “Discover Dickinson” day on Friday that looks more in depth than a standard tour. Anyone have experience with these type of events? Worth attending if still in “kicking the tires” mode?
@homerdog, thanks for the heads up that some schools do 12 classes a year on the trimester system!
In case others are interested in these specific schools - I double checked the two on S21’s list with trimesters and found that both (Knox and Kalamazoo) do 3 classes per trimester (9 per year).
@sccaflagger74 we were still in “kicking the tires” mode when we did our first two visits in October, one of which was an open house event with more prospective students on campus and more events set up (panel discussions, social activities, etc.) than we would have encountered at a more typical non-open-house visit, and we definitely found it to be worthwhile to attend.
We did all these schools last spring and fall (plus Lafayette, which is very near Muhlenburg… and McDaniel in Maryland, near Gettysburg) in four different trips. Each has a different vibe, all nice schools and pretty campuses. What specific kind of school/vibe/campus/culture/academics/town is your son looking for…and what matters most to him? Of course, his and your take would be different from ours, but I might be able to help you parse out which to visit.
Not sure what Dickinson Days includes, but we had a talk of about 45 minutes, I think, and a tour for an hour on a regular day. If you get the same speaker (I think he may be the director of admissions) he is the most riviting and inspirational speaker of the colleges we visited (I hope they pay him a good salary, lol) and really sold the school to my D and I. It was the second college she ever toured and the first time I saw a spark of excitement about college (she had been dreading the prospect for a couple of years.) She left feeling that she could be happy going to school there…the only drawback was a somewhat disappointing/dreary dining hall but so many other aspects of the school are great. I’m happy to comment on the others if you mention what your son is looking for (and looking to NOT have) in a school!
Dickinson and Gettysburg can be seen in a day if you get to the area the night before and schedule on in the morning and drive during lunchtime. It’s a pretty country road that gets you there in less than an hour.
Muhlenburg and F&M might be possible in the same day if you plan it closely, but the route is less pleasant (looks like a country highway on the map but a lot of urban-looking sprawl/buildup and construction. Might be possible to do F&M and Gettysburg on the same day but it would be closer to two hours between the two, if I remember correctly.
S21 still has a bit of time to decide on classes but we talked some about it with his counselor last week because we were in for his 504 review meeting. Looks like he’ll take…
AP Calc BC (currently in AB)
AP Stats
IB Economics
AP Physics (takes 2 periods)
English 12 – he’s doing really well in AP Lang this year but was persuaded to take it because the emphasis is on non-fiction, he’s not interested in AP Lit which is the only advanced options. I agree with other posters that I wish there was an in-between “honors” option.
Computer Graphics 2- probably continuing this as his elective but something else might pique his interest. He’d also like to just not take anything in this slot and leave school early but I don’t think he should do that unless he’s prepared to do something productive with that time.
Had a good meeting with S21 on Sunday to get him talking more about college list and doing some visits. He’d only expressed any interest in VA Tech (first choice) and JMU (back up) but I do want him to look more widely, if only to increase his confidence in VT as #1 rather than just sliding into it because it’s the easy option (with his stats and our school’s Naviance it looks like a solid admit for him (not engineering)).
We’re seeing W&M in a couple weeks because they are having a STEM student panel on a day he doesn’t have school. I don’t think W&M will be his thing since from the few visits we’ve done he preferred bigger schools. We actually visited W&M for an event about a year ago and told me then that he didn’t like it but now he says he doesn’t remember anything about it LOL. So, this will give a fresh look and point of contrast. Will go to VT’s March open house. Scheduled a Pitt tour for April and will see UVA in March on a early release school day (according to Naviance, highly unlikely to get into UVA but he still wants to give it a shot).
Any other suggestions? He has a 1490 SAT (780 math, 710 verbal), likely to end Jr. yr with a 4.1 weighted GPA. Rigorous schedule with prob 8 AP/IB. Weaker performance in freshman year but improved greatly after that. Very weak ECs, much as I have nagged him about that – does a few things with our church but only a low level of involvement in one school activity. So, def needs schools where admit is more stats-driven. Wants to major in something in the realm of math/stats/data analysis. Seems to like larger schools, open to variety of settings but doesn’t like an urban school that does not have a defined campus. Wants to be max 4-5 hr drive from Washington DC (but more than an hour - def doesn’t want to be in DC area). If he doesn’t go to a VA public U will need merit aid to bring the price down to $30k-ish (tuition/R&B).
@inthegarden , we’ve toured Lafayette and that is his ideal for now as he doesn’t really to seem to have an opinion on much else. Keys we’re looking at now are the Physics department being fairly large and research opportunities. His end game is a doctorate in Physics, that much he knows, so any school with only a few physics professors has already been cut from our list.
We’re only a few hours or less from all of the listed schools, might do 2 tours on Monday, but can’t on Friday due to evening plans. If we don’t do the Dickinson Days event we’ll probably pair it with Gettysburg on Monday.
@nichols51 I know Northwestern and Carleton have kids take four classes a quarter. It’s intense. You barely get into class and you feel like you’re facing a midterm. Even with three classes, the pace is fast.
So happy!!! D just texted me at lunch that she got first trombone at all-county band! YES! 
She needs this!