Parents of the HS Class of 2021 (Part 1)

@MommaLue Whoa yeah, that was a crazy development yesterday. https://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2020/09/01/a-court-orders-the-university-of-california-not-to-use-the-sat-or-act-during-the-pandemic/#395dc05558db

Before this happened, I heard an interview with an AO from USCB. She was saying they thought they might have another reader screen out test scores so to truly not disadvantage those without, but it hadn’t been decided at that point. I would wait and look for guidance from UC on this closer to the deadline. My guess is that UC will screen it out if you try to get it in somehow and it’s not being allowed.

Congrats to your child on getting that 36. It’s an awesome year to have that on the application at other schools.

Yes - that’s what I meant. I don’t think the 36 should be mentioned but NMSF would be, so that would tell the same story.

I see both sides of this. D21 just found out that her Sept 12 ACT location is closed…and she’s officially done trying to re-take the test after many attempts (took once in Feb, very lopsided scores, so not submitting for her reach schools at all). She’ll still apply to a few UC’s, which we always considered a complete crapshoot. FWIW, of three of D19s friends who had 35 or 36’s, full IB and similar/higher GPA’s to you son’s, two were admitted to a UC but not their first or second choice UC, and one was denied to the only UC he applied to but was admitted to/now attends an ivy league school. The last several years, the HS counselors scratch their heads noting the lack of definable pattern re: which student is going to be admitted to which UC. You’ll read many similar stories on CC’s UC forums. So on a positive note, with your son’s strong academic profile, he will likely be admitted to a UC (and depending on ELC, guaranteed admission to a UC) but the 36 may be less important than you might think in his being admitted to his UC of choice.

Before any of this a UCSB AO came to our school and warned the kids that only 50% was based on test score and GPA at their UC school, the rest was “everything else”. As far as I know students will still be able to submit AP exam scores, so between that and NM status, that should help.

My S will apply to UCs with a strong GPA and top 9%, but we are not counting on admission anywhere besides Merced or Riverside. If he gets into a mid-tier we will be happy but he is applying broadly as I feel it will be an unpredictable year for UCs.

The UC system could appeal the decision. From what I read, there was no evidence presented that anyone with a disability had run into a problem.

Like @sherimba03, S21 has a high score solely based on his own drive. In fact, despite our telling him to forget it, he’s taking the ACT again bc he knows he can get a 36 (35 now). And, from our SCOIR, every kid who has gotten into Berkeley has a very high score. So, I don’t know what this means now.

@Mwfan1921 I see the work situation and college admissions differently. Once you decide to follow a path as an adult, your resume should show that you’re the best for that specific job. With college, these are kids and at least 1/3 (?) will change their major. Yes, there are some kids fixated at a young age on one thing and do that extensively. Then you have others, who’ve played competive year-round sports and are musicians or artists, etc. I would hope that most colleges would want these kinds of kids on their campuses (maybe not MIT and the like), but surely in a more well-rounded university, you wouldn’t want a campus filled with just ISEF and hackathon winners. I guess we shall see! No matter the outcome, I don’t regret not hiring the college consultant in 9th grade to shape my kids’ high school paths. You only get one life. Everything can’t be about planning for the next step.

PS. I think it is an especially good year for out of state applicants to apply UC due to the potential drop in international applications.

does anyone knows if UC still require SAT/ACT for OOS students?

I understand your point, but so often the best person for the job is not the one who gets the job. Regarding college, I do think that most colleges want the type of kids you describe.

The elites serve such a small proportion of the college going group, but of course these schools receive more than a proportional focus on these boards. The top 20 universities and top 20 LACs enroll around 203K students, so 50Kish/year. That’s just over 1% of the total undergrad population of around 16.7M. If you back out the part-time undergrads (one shouldn’t IMO) then the elites have about 2% of the full-time undergrad population.

If a given school wants only a certain kind of student, more power to them, and that helps one narrow down their list if they don’t fit what the school is looking for. And what the schools are looking for is what applicants have to figure out so they can best demonstrate fit. It’s not easy and obvious, but it’s often doable.

About the CA essay prompts, D19 chose one, but as she wrote her essay it changed so that it answered a different prompt. However, she forgot to switch her choice.

The essay itself was proof read by four people, but no one looked at the prompt before D submitted. Then, she realized. Everyone she asked about it said no big deal, don’t worry, it’ll be fine, and she got an acceptance from her ED school. So, I think the moral of the story is the prompt doesn’t matter, and you might as well choose prompt 7, the “choose your own topic” prompt.

I feel for you folks who have kids applying to the UCs right now. We are CA residents, but my D21 refuses to apply to any of them, even though UCSD is local for us. The campus is crowded, rundown, the dorms are gross, cost of attendance is high and her major is severely impacted (CS). These things are true for most of the UCs. Just not appealing to her or to our family. I often wonder what the strong appeal is for others. I get that they are mostly ranked well, I guess.

She has also spent a good amount of time on the UCSD campus growing up, so her attitude toward the school is, “meh”. Top it off with having them test-blind and making the whole admission process totally random (in her eyes), and the UCs are all “dead to her”, lol.

@amsunshine we were originally leaning away from UCs too but due to Covid, I think there is now a better chance we would send S to a mid-tier, especially if its still remote next fall. Luckily, my son’s favorite is not the most popular ones, but I do really worry about overcrowding. They accepted 25% more students 2020.

does anyone knows if UC still require SAT/ACT for OOS students?

You information is very valuable for us. Thank you. We are OOS and haven’t had a chance to visit any of UC campuses. We are deciding if we should apply UC schools. We have difficulties to find other good alternatives.

We will apply our state flagship university, but for CS it is not a safe.

I feel if you apply for CS major, there is no good safe school now.

@randompeople There are many good CS schools that are relatively safer academically, but you would need to check affordability. In general, going to a ‘prestigious’ school is not necessary for CS.

Look at DePaul, U Dayton, Miami Ohio, Iowa State, U Kansas, U Alabama Tuscaloosa and Birmingham, Pitt, Missouri S and T. Can probably give you more schools if you give additional parameters, the trick is always finding a safety your kid would like to attend.

Hi all,
I hope it’s ok if I join this incredible conversation. I’m looking for more sources of information since it seems unlikely we will be able to visit most of the schools my daughter is considering. She goes to a magnet-type school in NYC, has very good grades (school does not calculate GPA), and got a 35 on her ACT. She was originally considering small LACs like Amherst, Bowdoin, Colby, etc., until we realized that we are a full-pay family (at least until our son is also in college), but can’t actually afford to pay full price. Now she is considering LACs that offer merit scholarships, and also publics with honors colleges. Some of the LACs on her list are: Lafayette, St. Lawrence, Wooster, Denison, Kenyon, Macalester, Grinnell, Richmond; Tulane too, even though it’s not a LAC. If anyone has thoughts on any of these schools – if you’ve been able to visit, or if you have a child there – I would love to hear them. Maybe there are schools she should add? Also, is there a good way to get in touch with current students, other than those who are working for the admissions office?

Thank you.

@marshmallo Welcome! SUNY Geneseo would be a great, affordable safety. You didn’t mention major, but Susquehanna is another great school. There top merit brings the cost down to the high $20k’s or so.

Hi @marshmallo! Some schools have an email a student link. Also, having your kid follow the school’s Instagram account can help.

You have a great list! We looked at Richmond, Lafayette, Occidental, and Colorado College for LAC merit. Is your daughter into preppy/sporty (Richmond/Laf (but with quirky), SJW but not all (Oxy), block plan/liberal CC? Others you could look at include Whitman, and if she’s amenable, Scripps, Smith, Mt Holyoke and Bryn Mawr. And, U if Rochester, not LAC but small uni, with flexible curriculum.

My favorite of those we visited was Lafayette, except it was hard to get to from where we live. Beautiful campus, warm admissions and students, great program for merit scholars. Our S is at Richmond, which, if she ignores the Greek scene (if that’s not her thing), I think is also great. Professors are great with mentoring. Kids are very serious about school (and having fun), and it is a bit more preprofessional feeling, probably due to the business school (whereas Lafayette has engineering). But, I was very impressed with the work being done in the humanities and sciences.

Regarding California Public Universities, our schools counselor tells families to think seriously about the cost for out of state - the stats from our independent school show an average 5 year graduation rate with students taking 1-3 classes over the summer at their local community college to graduate from a California university. Lots of budget cuts and concerned Covid will just make it worse. Most popular from our school are UCLA and Berkeley. So - that stat turned us off, as no way do we want to pay 5 years tuition for an undergrad at out of state costs and our 3 kids know these schools are not an option for them. I am sure many students graduate in 4 years - but trust the caution provided by our experience college counseling team.

@coffeeat3 As an alternative to overcrowded and expensive CA publics, I would look at some of the southwestern publics like U of AZ, ASU and UNM. While ASU’s Barrett Honors gets a lot of attention, U of AZ’s Honors College is on the rise. Not sure about what UNM offers in the way of Honors but the OOS stats threshold to qualify for instate tuition there is not very high.

I’m catching up…

We toured UCSB last month, and honestly I was a bit surprised at the condition of the campus. I’m a big believer that it’s not the fancy buildings that make a great college, but there were plenty of maintenance type things that looked like they had been deteriorating for years.

Also, I have had a few parents warn me about UC’s taking 5 years. Maybe a focused student with some AP credits can get out in 4, but at $60k a year that 5th year is spendy.

Keep in mind that the UC’s will probably appeal the test blind court ruling, and if so it’ll be soon.

As for shaping a class. I think schools use essays and ECs to get their preferred student. If you won’t fit it’s probably for the best you don’t go there.

Also, GPA shows what you did everyday for 4 years, test scores show what you can do when you’re focused on one task, and the essays/app show that you can follow directions and write. I have to think the following directions and writing part has a big impact on success in college.

Almost forgot! I agree that the California publics should be “easier” to get into this year. With COVID there will be less foreign students and a lot of OOS students won’t want to travel that far.