Speaking of LAC’s, we are headed to Franklin & Marshall and Bryn Mawr this weekend—we have a long weekend. I wanted to add more schools (Dickinson, Juniata, etc.) but D21 chose two, and then put on the breaks. She wants time to have fun, play mini-golf with her brother, shop a little, and go to Valley Forge (we are history buffs). Her college wish list so far is: small class size, professors who want to get to know their students, pretty campus, and some kind of homey/comfy factor that she can’t really describe yet. Will report back!
LOL. That describes just about every small LAC in southeastern PA. Good luck!
@3SailAway In our S19’s search for the right fit LAC, it came down to a few things. We visited ten LACs over the midwest, south, and NE.
(1) Location
He knew after our trip to MN that he wanted green space - arboretums or forests. I thought Macalester was a terrific location in the smallish city of St. Paul. It was set off from the city but walkable to all kinds of cool restaurants and things to do. It did not click for him. To “busy” and couldn’t walk off campus and into nature. On the same trip, he visited Carleton and liked the setting much better. He was sure that best fit campus for him would not be in or even near a city.
(2) Location (part 2)
He was able to narrow down his choices even more after doing some overnight trips. While he liked the rural school idea, too rural wasn’t ideal. Places like Grinnell and Kenyon were very, very sleepy with tiny towns and not much to do within a short car drive away. Little to no transportation available to get anywhere else. At the time we visited Kenyon, Uber didn’t even go there. He wanted a town that (I believe) reminded him a little bit of home with a street or two of mom and pop shops, a movie theater, and restaurants. And he wanted it to be walkable from campus. On the list of schools that accepted him, that narrowed it down to Davidson, Bowdoin, Carleton, Dickinson, and Hamilton.
(3) Fit with the students
We never ended up visiting Dickinson or Hamilton so he never formed an opinion of the kids at those schools. For Davidson, Bowdoin, and Carleton, he did his due diligence and really tried to figure out where he felt most comfortable and where he found kids who pushed him intellectually while still being familiar enough that he would find friends. All three would have fit that bill. His whole life, though, he’s been looking for a group of student athletes - kids who excelled at school but also loved to play sports. It was hit or miss in high school. He had his classroom friends and his XC/track friends and there was some overlap but most runners weren’t “sporty” in the way he is. He wants to shoot hoops or play tennis or put together a pick up soccer game - all sports he’s played in the past but decided to focus on running as a sophomore. His runner friends weren’t necessarily interested in that stuff.
Davidson is D1 so the athletes there are a different level and didn’t seem to mesh as much with the rest of the kids. He could have joined the running club and he likely would have played ultimate and made friends in his classes. The kids were also a little bit more buttoned up than he would have liked. He likes to look nice but he’s just a more outdoorsy kid than the majority of kids at Davidson. The weather was a big plus, though, and it was runner up.
Carleton ended up being too close to home. We have family in MN and I thought that was perfect! But it’s actually colder there than in Maine in the winters and no ocean and very midwestern just like home. Also, again, not as sporty and even more geeky than the other two. S19 can fit with that for sure but was looking for something different in the end. Plus, two kids from our high school were going and I think he liked the idea of going somewhere where no one else was going.
So, Bowdoin it was. Sporty, bright kids? Check. (all of the NESCACs would have fit this fyi). Town to walk to? Check. Dorm room overlooking a forest? Check. Also, he just felt it click big time on his visit. Stayed two nights instead of one when some students asked him to go to ultimate practice the next day and offered him a room to stay another night. Just clicked with everyone he met. Add on that the food is terrific and he can run by the ocean? He was all in. My only concern was that only 5% of the kids there are from the Midwest. I wasn’t sure how he would feel about that once there but it’s been good. And class is challenging but those professors (as I’m sure they are at all LACs) are crazy supportive.
So…all of this to say that, yes, LACs are the same in many ways. You have to sniff out the difference. Location - how far does the student want to go from home? What kind of location is preferable? And fit - do they mesh with the kids? Does the school have options for them to continue ECs that they’d like to continue and ones they’d like to try? Do they feel comfortable with the students they meet there? I think going to class and really spending time with the students is crucial to making the right decision on small schools.
D21 so far has a mix of LACs and small universities on her list. Visits starting soon and I hope she will also be able to sniff out the right place for her.
Attended a college fair with our son last night. A smaller event, mostly state schools and mid-tier LACs which was fine for us as so far he’s not fixated on “elite” schools. The LACs all kinda ran together for him and we could see his eyes glazing over towards the end. All the reps tend to say the same thing (research opportunities from day 1, know your profs, small class size, etc). Being a recruiter from a PA LAC at these things is a tough gig!
He did talk to a rep from the University of South Carolina and seemed to like it. Lines for Temple and Pitt were long early and by the time they thinned later he was done so we didn’t get to see them. I think he’ll end up at a bigger school as that’s what he seems to gravitate to. Toured Swarthmore in the summer just to get his feet wet (knowing it’s a stretch to get in) and his reaction was “too small”. SAT/ACT results this year will help steer the way towards USC, Ohio, Miami, etc. All schools that have piqued his interest and offer good out of state merit. Was hoping to speak to the IUP rep about the Cook Honors College but ran out of time. Would love to get some idea of scholarship amounts for honors students there.
Also, he dropped out of cross country this week and joined the drama club. Big relief as cross country was a time killer and we could tell he really didn’t enjoy it at all. Who knows what will happen when winter track rolls around.
@sccaflagger74 Our local PACAC college fair is coming up soon. Been debating on whether to take S21 or not. He’s ruled out the small mid-tier PA LACs. He really likes the mid-sized Jesuit schools. And he’s already visited the state-relateds. We dragged him along on the college stuff with S19.
With S19, we made sure he applied to a PASSHE and a couple of those mid-tier PA LACs because we are full-pay merit chasers. Wanted him to have options. Because of S19, we have an idea of what schools like Loyola Maryland and Saint Joe’s might offer merit-wise. But they were still higher than the state-relateds.
Anyway, I was thinking the PACAC fair might be a way to see what else might out there. And to talk with reps from IUP and WCU. You’ve convinced me that it’s probably a good idea to check it out.
@InfiniteWaves, what did you and your son think about Loyola Maryland (pros/cons) apart from the money aspect? What is the surrounding neighborhood like?
I’ve been thinking this might be one for us to visit. We’re not Catholic or formally religious but I think the Jesuit schools have a lot to offer. Our D21 knows she doesn’t want a large flagship and is not crazy about any other of our state schools, but I would like her to see some smallish mid-sized schools (3000-10,000). Being urban (but relatively leafy-looking) could add some variety to our list. She’s looking at LACs and doesn’t want one with fewer than than 200O students. Closer to 3000 would be ideal but I’m afraid most of those larger LACs within our region (she wants to stay within a half-day drive) could be high matches or reaches and we really need more solid matches and safeties she can actually feel excited about.
@inthegarden d21 also considering BC which is obviously Jesuit and we are not Catholic. I’ve asked a lot of questions on CC about what it would be like for her there. We’ve decided that the only way to know is to visit and to talk to students from our high school who are there. So hard to fess out fit!
@inthegarden I am completely biased toward Loyola Maryland as Mr. InfiniteWaves and I alums. 
We met there while in school. Got married at the Alumni Chapel. My college roommates are still my best friends. My kids have been wearing Greyhounds apparel since they were babies. LOL!
S19 was accepted with a really nice merit scholarship but opted for Penn State instead. Whatever. 
It is currently at the top of S21’s list. Not sure it will stay there, but we can hope.
Loyola is located within the Baltimore City limits just up the street from Johns Hopkins. Students can walk between the two campuses. The area surrounding Loyola includes some of the most affluent city neighborhoods on three sides with one side being a bit less so. The school is very focused being a part of city life and the communities it is in.
The way I describe the Jesuit Catholic identity is that it is all there if you want (Loyola is a Catholic school) it but you certainly do not have to partake. Jesuits are known to be quite inclusive. My husband and I loved our college experience and the educations we received. He even went back there for his MBA.
Baltimore is a great college town. There is a free bus service that runs between Goucher College, Towson University, Loyola, Hopkins, the University of Baltimore, and Penn Station (can get to DC from there!).
If you are interested in Loyola Maryland, I would encourage you to check out Saint Joseph’s in Philadelphia. They are pretty much the same school. LOL! Both Jesuit, same size, similar vibe. Lovely, traditional campuses located in a city.
Just got home from a visit to Trinity University in San Antonio. Smallish liberal arts school in a nice area of San Antonio. The campus was gorgeous and the dorms were doubles but quite nice with a shared bathroom (that’s cleaned by housekeeping 2x/month!). Tour guide was not big on details so we didn’t feel like we had a real in depth presentation but what we saw and heard at the info session was good. Ate at the dining commons which was ok. D21 would get good merit aid which would bring costs into the affordable range. It’s not at the top of her list but I think she’ll apply. One thing I didn’t love was the campus security (or lack thereof) - very few blue phones around and their answer when I asked about police presence was yes we have them but no need to worry because “it’s an affluent area of San Antonio”.
The area around campus does seem quite safe, but you can be reassured that campus security is not lacking. Trinity was recently recognized for the quality of their campus police: https://new.trinity.edu/news/big-recognition-big-force
This is a great year for D21 thus far. She loves her dual credit classes so much. She’s a kid who is used to working hard and has always taken a bunch of extremely rigorous courses through PA Homeschoolers and CTY Online - which have done what they were intended for in terms of meeting her where she was at academically…but being able to take classes in-person (at her level) - wow, what a difference. She LOVES her college classes. One is at a local four-year, and she has been invited to join clubs there and go to class-related parties. The other two are at a high-ranked community college, and she enjoys those courses too…mainly because of the interesting personality quirks of her professors. She is, for example, taking notes in economics not just on the topic itself, but on all the completely irrelevant comments the professor throws in here and there…she has only experienced strictly on-topic discourse from her online teachers, so hearing random musings about whatever completely out of the blue from time to time from her economics professor just cracks her up and makes her day. Her favorite is her English professor, who is incredibly strict and calls on everyone all the time and expects you to know your stuff inside and out - she gets a kick out of him too because so far he hasn’t been able to catch her off-guard. It’s a bit of a Hunger Games atmosphere in that class, and she thrives on the stress and greets each classtime like an enjoyable challenge. Her classmates are great in all her classes. People of all ages from all walks of life. She’s having a blast.
All of this makes her so enthusiastic about going to college in general. We have visited many many colleges over the years since my kids’ extracurriculars take them all over the northeast, and now she has a list (that needs to be whittled down) and she cannot wait to go to any one of them. She likes a genuine safety well enough so that’s good, but she does have her eye on some “most selective” schools. She has the GPA and the rigor thus far, and the ECs…now she needs to work on her SATs…though some of her favorites are test optional even for her (according to admissions people she’s contacted), since she’ll have a bunch of college credits and grades when she applies.
It is so nice to see her this happy, and she has really grown in the past year in terms of maturity. A world of difference between this year and last year. Last year she acted like more of a kid and I had to remind her of due dates etc…, and we had some blowouts when she’d procrastinate…and now she seems very much like a young adult and is managing everything just fine without me having to say a word, and she has all As thus far.
Also last year - and this year unfortunately - we had some MAJOR drama with my kids’ dad, surprising and disruptive things that completely wrecked my kids’ sense of security and basically shot a cannon at all their hard work and concentration. My youngest was affected the most. My oldest held on and persevered…and this year she is so much happier with herself and her life and she is handling everything so very well. I was worried she and her sister would get completely derailed academically (in addition to their mental health!), but everything seems to be stabilizing and they are able to keep their eyes on the sunshine beyond the clouds.
I am hoping to also get D23 into in-person dual enrollment next year - the local community college recently lowered their minimum age for homeschoolers. She too was told by the principal of the local high school that she would be better off homeschooled throughout high school since our local ps does not offer the advanced courses to fit where she is at. The online thing with certain providers can definitely meet academic needs for academically advanced kids, and their extracurriculars and time with friends meet most of the social needs…but having actual in-person classes for grades with a professor/teacher standing right in front of you is so much more fun according to D21. D23 is a bit jealous of her sister this year, but thankfully she can probably go to cc too next year for at least one or two classes.
As for demonstrated interest and college visits in general (responding to the conversation above) -
I personally feel like nothing at all beats an actual visit to the college. Demonstrated interest aside (and I am convinced they ALL keep track, otherwise why would they check you in…? , though some care about it far more than others), nothing beats feeling out the energy and vibe of the campus in person. We have visited an embarrassing number of northeast colleges, plus a handful of other colleges across the USA. My girls have enjoyed each and every visit because we’ve made it fun. Now that my oldest is in 11th, we are revisiting her favorites from the first massive and casual round…and her initial impressions mostly haven’t changed. So if you have the time and can afford it, visit visit visit visit. That being said, it’s been very easy for us over the years since my girls are involved in a northeast sports competitive tournament circuit that has competitions conveniently fairly close to a zillion colleges all over the northeast. It’s been easy to combine competitions with college visits.
And once again I’ve written a book here. It is so nice to have a place to share though. Thanks for reading (if you made it this far). Hope you all are enjoying the fall. Maybe we’ll see each other at some college visits.
@JanieWalker - so wonderful to read your enthusiastic report on your daughter; I’m so happy she is thriving this fall!
@hubtocali thanks for the link!
Thanks, @3kids2dogs! 
We spent the past week in Massachusetts looking at colleges: 3 LAC’s and 3 big universities.
These are all reaches for anyone, but we went because the diversity of the schools was supposed to help D21 decide what she wants in a school and the trip helped in that regard. The schools are also financial reaches and she is fully aware they could fall off the list for that reason. That said, Tufts was a clear favorite with NEU a distant 2nd. Since D21 is a recruitable athlete at any of these schools, the D1 v D3 distinction is important and may play a huge role in the affordability. (I’m not a lawyer, but with every school in that area costing $75-77K, is there an anti-trust issue in there somewhere? I digress…) Anyway, my second reason for the trip was to inspire her to find more time for test prep. We’ll see how that goes, but I will say that the coaches we met were far and away more helpful in understanding the admissions process and testing needs than was the admissions office. I deeply appreciated their candor and it was eye-opening for my daughter. We only went to 2 admissions info sessions. One was great and one was such a boring sales pitch. Given the “eliteness” of the school, I was honestly shocked they couldn’t do a better job.
So now the challenge is to find schools like Tufts that might be easier to get in to and more affordable with either merit or athletic scholarships. Suggestions?
@JanieWalker That’s great she is enjoying it so much!
I took D21 to a college fair today. She still doesn’t have a whole lot of idea what she wants, but she’s narrowing it down geographically a bit. She was interested in schools up north – some in Montana, Idaho and Oregon. She also stopped at a few in New England. She was interested enough in Montana State, Oregon State, Utah, Utah State and St. Olaf to go back to the tables because they were too crowded initially. She still likes Western Colorado and Northern Arizona.
I always feel bad for the reps from the schools nobody is interested in, like Bmidji State. They were right next to Michigan, which had a line a mile long, and the poor guy seemed so lonely.
@JanieWalker ,this single mom with crappy ex, loves reading your update! as always cheering your girls on!
@Acersaccharum I think that mid-sized university is a tough one to crack. They seem to all be either (a) elite like Duke, Vandy, Wash U, Northwestern, Tufts, Emory, etc., or (2) Jesuit like BC, Villanova. The one we found and used as a safety (although I know most people would say it’s not a safety for an OOS student) was William and Mary. We could tell form our school’s Naviance that S19 had a really, really good chance. Everyone above a certain line on the chart got in with no waitlists. He was indeed accepted RD but early in Feb, getting one of their special letters in the mail. I know it’s not quite the same but it is mid-sized and very LAC feeling.
Eh too late to add on to my comment above.
@Acersaccharum William and Mary was a little less for us as a full pay family. I think it came in around $60K per year versus $75k for other full-priced options.
University of Rochester? I think it’s medium sized. Or maybe University of Vermont? Perhaps look at smaller public universities. Some might give merit. I think Vermont does.
TCU? SMU?
Thanks @homerdog ! W&M is on my list, but not hers. I’ll work on it. Rochester is also a great suggestion, had sort of forgotten it. We do need to investigate more (smaller) public options as they are mostly D1. I’m trying to convince her to look at Denison, but I don’t know much about it. How big is the town and where does it draw students from? After seeing Northeastern, H is really focused on the connections you make in college and how it will help you get a job/have a network after graduation.