@homerdog, good points. I love that recommendation on the physics and am going to keep that in mind. Unfortunately, a path similar to your son’s isn’t an option now (though it likely would have served her well)…she is in both chem and bio for freshman year (they call it pre-AP, so it’s likely equivalent to honors, but their designations do confuse me a bit). So she needs to do a science class every year (required by the school) although she will already have 3 high school science credits after this year (she has one science credit from a class she took in 8th grade). So she seems to be locked into to ending up with 6 science credits at this point.
The school said if you take the pre-AP bio/chem block which she is taking this year (possibly our bad, but she is enjoying it and doing well in it), you are expected to then take either AP Bio or AP Chem in 10th grade. I am not a pusher of 12 AP classes by any stretch, and I’d love for her to focus most on the things that resonate with her (but she also is a kid who likes to feel she is keeping up with the accelerated group and will definitely want to take either AP Bio or AP Chem next year). It’s great to know she doesn’t necessarily need both…though she’ll have to figure out what to fill her science requirement with each year if she only does one of them…if she does AP Chem or Bio next year and saves a physics class for senior year, she’ll still need a science class for junior year - I think the only other one offered at the school is Environmental Science (they do have options for other science through dual enrollment classes and through online science classes through Georgia Tech, but if we’re trying not to go overboard on her science rigor given who she is, I don’t think either of those would be the way to go)! ?So there just doesn’t seem to be enough to fill her science schedule for the next 3 years if she doesn’t do at least Bio or Chem as an AP (physics and environmental would fill 2 years, but she’d still need another). Apparently she will need to spend less time watching k-pop music videos next year, haha.
But I’m definitely going to keep in mind the possibility of doing just one of those classes AP (bio or chem but not both). I had already been entertaining that thought (though D23 thinks she should do both…but she has no experience with an AP class yet, so maybe she will change her tune), but it’s reassuring to hear that it’s a very reasonable path. Her college list will likely include primarily small liberal arts schools…lots of overlap with your son’s list. Thank you for the input!
@nichols51 S19 taking Earth Science junior year was definitely an odd choice compared to the rest of the top kids at school. The general progression for honors kids is Bio H, Chem H, AP Physics 1, and then senior year kids take either AP Bio or AP Chem or both if they are super into science (that only fits, though, if they aren’t taking foreign language senior year). So, don’t be afraid for your D to do something different than her peers.
As for Bio versus Chem, I would have your D ask around school and find out if one has better teachers than the other. What’s the scoop on these two classes in general? Is one more work? After getting the local lowdown on the classes at her school, also take into consideration if she likes one subject better than the other. If she does not, I’d go with the class that has a better rep (less stressful, better teacher, etc.)
@nichols51 AP Bio felt much easier to D21 than AP Chem. D23 has not yet taken AP Bio but has had neuroscience and genetics courses, so I think AP Bio will feel fairly easy since she’s already had a lot of bio-oriented courses.
@homerdog - yes, smart kids are indeed out there in droves. D23 has friends who took calculus in middle school, and she became good friends with several other SET kids from her CTY camp experiences who already have a ton of serious research under their belts, (one has academic publications), and they aren’t yet 14. The highest ranking colleges tend to attract such kids, so it’s no surprise that your son finds himself in the midst of so many.
@nichols51 I agree with @homerdog - students should focus on AP courses that fit their interests and talents. If your child does not intend to pursue a STEM field and is not drawn to higher-level math, AP science courses may not be the best choice. As for difficulty - at my kid’s school, AP Bio has the reputation of being difficult mostly because of the quantity of material. I don’t know about AP Chem and what math is required as my D hasn’t taken it yet. She’s currently in AP Physics and is holding her own but it’s definitely challenging. Physics I is mostly algebra-based and Physics C is calc-based.
You also might want to ask the academic advisers at her school if it’s possible to try an AP course and then drop down to honors if it’s too much. She might do just fine.
Finally do not underestimate the amount of work involved in a AP History course! Between that and AP Seminar and learning a new foreign language, that may be plenty.
Both of your kids sound great. I wish more kids had the opportunity and interest to take Latin.
@mamaedefamilia thank you…good points! I’ve definitely always been of the opinion that my kids would be best served by taking only the AP courses that fit their interests and talents…D23 seems to have unintentionally ended up on a track that seems to lead (at her school) inevitably to at least one AP science class (she can do non AP for physics and environmental if desired, but I believe she needs to have a science class on her schedule all 4 years, so since she will have done both bio and chem this year, that leaves one more year of science to do with the only options available to her for that course being AP or dual enrollment)…I’ll talk it through with her (she was going to ask her science teacher today which between AP bio or AP chem has the reputation for heavier workload/harder course at her school).
The good news is that she’s already taught herself some Japanese (she’s been taking karate since age 7 and has gone through a few years of being incredibly interested in Japan and in anime, so she taught herself two of the three Japanese character sets and knows some basic vocabulary…thus we are hoping Japanese I won’t be as difficult for her as it might otherwise be).
My S21 is struggling with the APUSH workload this year, so I believe what you say about AP history classes!
I really appreciate the insights and am glad to hear confirmation that it’s fine to stick to APs in areas of interest/talent.
Report cards posted for us. College Chem didn’t destroy her average, it did bring it down about a point though. That and APUSH were her lowest grades Chem was a low B and APUSH a high B. She isn’t upset which is good. She is learning to deal with not getting straight A’s as her classes get harder.
@JanieWalker Thanks and boy your D23 has blown my mind!
Yes @homerdog , D is your “Typical High Stats” kid, not brilliant (although she goes to school with a couple of those future MIT kinda kids) and she will be the first to tell you that. You knows she has limits to and her critical thinking is being stretched for sure.
@nichols51 , I have a high school class mate who’s son graduated from Duke in May. He was a liberal arts major (now in Law school at Emery). He took AP bio as his AP science, it is widely know to be the easiest (at least at our school) and least math of chemistry and physics. I do hear AP bio has tons to memorize though.
@mamaedefamilia, @homerdog, and @nichols51. If I’m understanding you, you would suggest not taking AP courses outside your areas of interest. S19 would disagree.
Re: AP Chem, I feel for the kids - it is hard. S19 actually thought Physics 1 was easier (his school didn’t offer AP Bio, so he has no opinion there). But he is really glad to have had both the chem and physics, even though he is a Finance major. Those AP credits satisfied the “2 Science +Lab” general requirements at his college, freeing up his schedule for other classes. Plus, the college science classes and labs tend to be pretty time intensive.
Elsewhere, posters often debate the merits of AP. While I agree that a lot of AP classes aren’t truly the rigor of a college class (personal observation), the credits S19 got have allowed for a much more eclectic freshman schedule than he would have had otherwise.
@SammoJ that’s not what I meant. I think it’s good (if possible) to get to AP level courses in all main subjects. I was just suggesting that a student does not need both AP Bio and AP Chem. In fact, they really don’t need either.
If the end game is to go to a public university, then the student will likely get some credits. It doesn’t work that way at many private unis and LACs. At Bowdoin, APs cannot count towards distribution requirements. The only upside is that strong scores on AP tests give the student a higher placement if they choose to take that subject. For example, S19 is taking linear algebra because he had a 5 on BC Calc and also took MV. He’s thinking about being a math major. That AP test placed him in LA but won’t give him credits towards the major. His AP French year would place him into a higher level class, too, if he chose to take French.
His APUSH test gave him a credit if he wants to use it but it doesn’t mean much unless he wants to take three classes instead of four one semester. We would pay the same tuition so he would never do that. (Same goes for AP Lang.) Neither can count towards a distribution so they don’t gain him flexibility.
Anyway, it’s great to have rigor in all subjects but not necessary to take specific AP science courses, especially if the student knows they won’t be an engineering major.
When students are deciding which college to go to, after offer letters are sent. Do they know which classes from HS they will get credit for? I guess what I’m asking is at what point do they find out which credits were accepted?
@AndreaLynn , google each school of interest and " AP Exam credit" You will see what each school accepts for AP credit. Most State schools have liberal AP policies. Your child does not to use any or all AP credit, just what they want to.
@BingeWatcher what about credits from another school, like her Chemistry class is Syracuse University.
What do you mean they don’t have to use any or all, why would they not use them if they earned them?
@SammoJ, the distribution requirements are a good factor to keep in mind - thanks for bringing that up.
@homerdog, that’s helpful info in terms of Bowdoin’s policy.
My kids are targeting mainly LACs, so it’s always been my understanding that the AP credits won’t tend to be as useful to them (though, of course, it varies by school). My S21, if he ends up with any credits that can be used wherever he ends up, might use them to take fewer classes in a semester due to his ADHD and processing speed challenges (1 or 2 fewer courses required to graduate could be important enough for him that we’d be fine with him taking fewer classes a few semesters even if we’re paying the same tuition). My D23, like your @homerdog’s S19, would not use the credits towards the degree (though she wouldn’t be opposed to using them for distribution requirements as @SammoJ suggests if that ended up being an option to her…it’s just not super likely to be an option at her list of schools, I think).
I’m definitely for D23 getting some rigor and AP classes in a variety of subjects…but it seems that just doing them in her areas of interest plus 1 in science and probably 2 in math will put her at 9. To me that seems like plenty, but I’m old and we didn’t take 9 APs back in my day. ? D23 may push to do more because (a) she worries about not keeping up with everyone else (her school has a capstone diploma that, I think, requires the kids, among doing other things, to take 13 AP courses which would include 3 in the sciences) and (b) she has at least one lottery school on her list (she is a legacy, but it’s still a lottery). What I’m looking for is to find a way for her to challenge herself academically/not cut off her options for the schools she will want to apply to while also not letting her get completely caught up in the academic arms race - I’m all for her watching those k-pop videos she loves, going to concerts, and sleeping until noon on Sundays, so I’m trying to figure out how she can balance her academic schedule and extracurriculars with some downtime. And because she has such an interest is East Asian languages and cultures, I want her to feel okay about taking French through level 4 instead of through AP so she can switch to then do Japanese through level 3. That’s authentically her, so I want her to embrace it rather than feeling as if it’s a choice with dire consequences. But while she’s my youngest (of 3), she’s also my only kid who’s going to be taking a lot of APs and applying to really selective schools, so I’m sure I have a lot to learn about which tradeoffs are worth it. I appreciate all the info.
@AndreaLynn sometimes kids don’t want to use credits because it places them too high and that’s a struggle. S19 knows lots of kids who did not take their credit for BC Calc and repeated the second Calc class in college. He also knows kids who took a series of AP physics but, as engineering majors, decided to start physics from scratch in college. AP classes really aren’t the same as a college level class in some (most?) situations. For example, AB Calc can be taught in a high school as a year long class. In college, it’s one semester or one trimester. The material comes super fast.
@SammoJ ‘s son’s case, he used his science AP’s to fulfill a science distribution requirement but isn’t taking any more science classes so that’s a great way to use credit if it’s allowed.
I think you’d have to call each school to find out if they accept transfer credits from another school. It might be on a case by case basis.
@AndreaLynn It sounds to me that Syracuse class would be actual college credit and would transfer. As far as not electing to use AP credit. An example would be if student is retaking class to pad GPA and/or learn knowledge that was not in AP class.
@nichols51 does your high school have a history with the LACs on your D’s list? Are they a popular destination for kids from your high school? If not, I really really don’t think your D has to keep up with the Joneses and take more APs just to be “equal” with them. The way kids stand out at smaller schools is having the grades and rigor of course but it’s not about checking boxes. Essays and recommendations are what make the difference. Your D taking 8 versus 9 APs has absolutely nothing to do with it. She’s in the ballpark.
Re AP credits and other credits granted for classes taken, to what extent do you think this will factor into the college decision?
DS attends a rigorous residential boarding school and has taken/will take several accelerated courses this year and next. If he stays instate, there are agreements and he would get quite a bit of credit for many of these courses. We have often heard from many parents of kids that have already graduated from this HS that college courses are not as challenging. Our concern/frustration is paying serious money for him to take a course for which he already knows much of the material.
If the decision comes to a school like Georgia Tech for which he will receive say 9 hours of credit related to his STEM major and a bit more that goes against his free electives vs instate where he might receive significantly more credit which option to choose?
MIT/Harvard are known to have courses known to be extremely challenging so probably not an issue if he does not receive the credit there, but how do we determine the rigor of slightly lower schools (try to find exams for the courses?) He will be full pay everywhere and we have no problem paying if he is being challenged/learning but would hate paying for him to get credit for a class he knows 90% of the material already.
It seems an option is to discuss with the dept head and try to place out of classes and take higher level courses instead which is a much better option than repeating material. In this case though it seems he would graduate with a math degree, for instance, using grad level courses to meet the requirements whereas someone else would also have a math degree with much lower level courses. Is this the way it works? Sorry for the questions, just trying to understand so we can all make the best choice.
And yes her Syracuse class she will have a Syracuse transcript. We were told as long as she gets C’s or better most schools will accept them. She also has some credits from a local community school that if she ends up in a SUNY they will most likely accept, again as long as a C or better.
