@Starski I’ve been going around with our school system for 3 years about math placement for one of my twins, it can be beyond frustrating.
In our district algebra 9th grade would be grade level. Kids who are one year ahead take Geometry. GT kids take Algebra 2. And then a program that they try to hide let’s some kids take pre calculus as 9th graders. Parents can override teacher’s placements for everything but 3 years ahead. Even with 3 years ahead, students can take Algebra 2 midterm and final the summer before 9th grade and move up if they score above 85%. It took me 4 years and endless calls to accidentally discover this option.
If your daughter really likes math, I would push for her to be able to re test at the end of year. Or see if the HS will wave the requiment. Also, talk to the country GT coordinator. Lastly, reach out to parents with older kids.
My son’s Math SAT was a 650 before he started Algebra, it was a waste of time. Keep fighting if you want her in Geometry.
If that doesn’t work out, try AOPs classes like number theory. It will allow her to explore her math interest and teach things that aren’t covered in school.
@Starski How frustrating! I would be livid at the school system.
Any chance your daughter could take AoPS’s Intro to Algebra B over the summer, then be placed into your school’s Geometry for the fall? Would your school system accept that course of action? Your daughter won’t be bored with AoPS - they teach topics that aren’t covered in school.
@2boysmom84 - Same as @VikkiG5 , DS’23 is coming from a public middle school into a private school, so he needed to take a Math placement exam, so they know what class they want him in. Next he picks a couple of electives and then the school will build his schedule.
@Starski Ooh, that is frustrating! And I can imagine it’s going to be tough to break the news to your D. I definitely second the idea of requesting a retest - especially since she only missed by 3 percentage points, it’s not like she was way off, I mean, that could have been one problem either way. I hope your administrators will look at her total record and history and reconsider.
Our public school district is set up where the faster track 8th graders take Algebra and move automatically into Geometry for 9th grade so long as they get at least a 75 on the NY State Regents exam for Algebra. So there’s no school specific placement test, they just let the statewide exam serve that purpose.
@starski I’ve had positive results advocating for placement types of issue with my kids at these ages. It’s to important to let these things slide. Anyone can have a bad test and the rest of her results seem did speak to moving up. Good luck!
Thanks all. Being able to talk about it here was helpful. My D was upset with the news. The school didn’t tell her so we had to. She is frustrated because she knows that she knows the material and doesn’t want to repeat it next year. So I will advocate for her, I’m just not sure yet what that will look like. I did ask if they could tell me the pass rate for the class. I want to see if it is true that most students don’t move on to Geometry in this process. That seems crazy if true. But so far no one she’s talked to that took the test with her got a passing grade.
For students who want to compete for top slots in college STEM programs, there is a benefit to taking the most challenging Math and sciences classes your high school offers (so long as you keep the grades up.) College Admissions officers weigh GPA and strength of schedule. Another factor is the Math SAT or ACT. Those nationally standardized test cover primarily Algebra and Geometry. So, getting a really thorough review can help on the standardized test. For students who are starting high school in Pre-Calculus and go on to AB Calculus, BC Calculus and beyond - it is very important to schedule in Algebra and Geometry review before sitting for the SAT/ACT. JMHO.
In line with what @glido wrote, my D19 is an example of that issue: She fell in love with math and got herself on an accelerated schedule (swhich she could do because her school offers double-block semester-long math classes, so students can take two a year if they like), so when she took the ACT as a junior, she’d effectively forgotten (well, not really forgotten, but it wasn’t really top of mind) much of the basic algebra on the math part of the test, so her calculus-taking self scored as not really college-ready in math.
So it appears that only two students passed the exam - one with an 80% and one with an 86%. The school didn’t tell me that but only about 20 students were allowed to take the exam so they’ve all shared their results with each other. So out of about 250 8th graders, about 45 were put into “advanced math” this year and took Topics in Algebra, out of those 45 only 20 were recommended for Geometry, and out of those 20, only 2 passed the exam with a high enough grade. That seems crazy to me still. I don’t know of any other school in our state which limits moving right into Geometry in 9th grade to 2 students/year.
This was also the first timed exam she’s ever had in school. It was 90 minutes and she said most students did not finish. She finished, but only had a chance to review a couple of problems before running out of time. She thinks she rushed through, worried about the time. She said one of the two students who passed did not finish the exam. So that frustrated her as well.
I did talk with my D about math sequencing. We are on a modified block schedule so she could double up but probably won’t. She is good at math and enjoys it but her real passions are music, theatre, and writing (and dance, but that is outside of school). She is already pushing to participate in multiple music groups and will most likely take extra English classes. So, she’s looking at the basic four years of HS math which would be either Algebra-Geometry-Algebra II- Trig or Geometry-Algebra II-Trig-Calc AB (our school doesn’t offer Calc BC but the same professor friend who tutored her for this exam offered to teach her the BC elements when the time comes). depending on whether we push to have her in Geometry next year. She said she wants to do the full sequence to Calculus.
I’m meeting with my friend tomorrow to see what she thinks about D’s Algebra skills. I don’t want to push her forward if she really would benefit from taking it at the HS. After that I will probably ask to meet with the HS math folks and take a look at her exam. There was no discussion of her results in school - her teacher didn’t even know anyone’s results so she asked them. After finding out no one in her class passed (both passes were in the other class), she apparently shrugged and moved on. Another frustration.
Hi everyone. I’m another migrant from the 2017 thread. My D17 is finishing her sophomore year at Princeton and just declared as an Astrophysics major. If you would have asked me back when she was in 8th grade if I thought she’d major in Astrophysics you would have gotten a funny look. She was all about reading, art and music then. Of course she was the low maintenance, high/over achieving type. Always did her homework without asking and went above and beyond what was asked. All of this leads into S23…
S23 isn’t quite so low maintenance and is in fact very high maintenance. Forgets HW, forgets to turn in HW, etc. Needs to chillax after his long hard day at school(written with absolutely no sarcasm) with some videos or gaming. He did do better in 7th grade as those grades are used for applying to special admission high schools which you have to do in Philadelphia if you go to a public school. Fortunately he got into the same school as his sister which has a project-based curriculum. So no tests and such so in turn no AP or IB program. Lots and lots of projects both individual and group which for him is great. His k-8 is a Spanish Immersion school and his mom is from South America so he is fully biliterate. We have to decide if he’ll do what his sister did and take Spanish 4 just to have it on the transcript or place out of Spanish and pick up a new language.
We had some of the math placement unknowns that you guys are dealing with. He’s taking Algebra this year at his HS he’ll be able to take Geometry. But we weren’t sure he’d get into the school as they get about 1600 apps for 125 spots and it’s not all about test scores and grades there. He was assured of getting into the big Special Admission school (2nd oldest public high school in the country) but they seem to be like some of the high schools you guys are dealing with and not every freshman gets into Geometry due to space limitations. His current teacher says she has had kids that got a perfect score on the state algebra test not get into Geometry. So we came up with a scheme of S23 taking Geometry at AoPS. He took their 2 programming classes(Python) last year and enjoyed them. Once he got into his new HS he no longer needed to take it but he said he wanted to so I’m not going to turn down a kid trying to learn more. I’m not sure what this means for next school year but we’ll play it by ear. I think they’ll let him go into Algebra 2. A number of kids that take Geometry in 9th take A2 in the summer in order to take trig/pre-cal in 10th, Calc in 11th and then higher math at UPenn or Drexel in 12th - which is what my D17 did.
So right now he’s into programming, engineering and science. I fully expect him to end up a PoliSci major and go to law school.
@Dolemite Your lucky the school system accepts AoPS. Ours accepts nothing, not CTY, Stanford or our community college.
The CC told our son he was welcome to take courses at the college, but the HS said he couldn’t get HS credit. He was trying to make room for more band classes. They also said after 7th grade he couldn’t take HS summer classes, not “safe” to be with HS students, but fine to be with college.
AoPS is such a great program. It’s nuts for a school to not accept it, IMO. Same goes for CTY Online classes. @Mom24boys, your son’s school won’t take those - or Stanford or even community college? That’s 100% bonkers.
Speaking of which, D23 is taking her CTY Online Chinese final as I type, and her AoPS precalc course ends in three weeks. Everything is winding down, which is a good thing because my kid is so ready for a break.
Hey guys. I have had a bit of opposite frustration with our school (public) math acceleration feeling like they push the kids too quickly. Both my girls did Algebra 1 for 7th grade and then geometry for 8th grade. So D23 will be in Algebra 2 (actually called 3/4 here and Algebra 1 is 1/2) for freshman year, pre-calc for sophomore and AP calc A/B for junior year and then either AP stats or AP calc B/C for senior year assuming all goes well. I just feel they push them through too quickly and not all that was taught in Algebra 1 in 7th grade was done well and formed strong foundations for moving forward. I would love to see some different progression but this is how it is done… D20 has done this route and done fine but she definitely hit a wall when she got to pre-calc her sophomore year. She was able to push through it with some tutoring help from her boyfriend but I know many kids who have hit that wall and not done as well. I am sure there are a few top math kids who this acceleration is good for but in our system probably the top 30% of students are put into this path which seems too much to me.
Haven’t had a chance to read through all the posts but just a quick intro I guess is in order… S23 is the middle of 3 (D18 and D25), attends public schools - all advanced classes and Algebra I which will count as a HS credit. Has plans to be part of the IB Program in HS (like his older D18 sister who is finishing her 1st year at Vandy) and will be taking the pre-IB course work as a freshman next year which will include Spanish I, APWorldHis, and Honors Geometry, English and Biology plus electives Art and athletic PE. He doesn’t really study much but maintains high straight As, but is aware that is going to change in HS. He is a competitive year-round swimmer and swims for both a USA team as well as the high school (you can swim up from Middle School here - went to state in 7th on relay team and 8th for relays and an individual event - already has cuts for 2 individual events next fall and is the fastest sprinter on the team) … soooooo I’ll be paying a good amount of attention to athletic recruiting threads if/when he decides he definitely wants to continue swimming in college (he says he wants to now but who knows when he really starts thinking about college life). There is a chance he would like to follow big sister, but they don’t have a men’s team (actually a lot of schools he thinks he might like don’t have men’s teams) so he knows he has to maintain a perfect GPA and get high ACT to get to where she is without swim (which would be his only hook). Guess that’s it for now… look forward to being on this journey with y’all!
I just found this board a few months ago. I never did join the 2019 parent thread for S19, but since I found it so helpful and really wish I had found it sooner I will get on-board for D23. We just finished up our first college application process with S19 and man did we really mess up in some areas. Biggest issue was standardized tests, started that process way to late. He didn’t take the SAT 1 until June of his junior year and SATIIs until the fall of his senior and that was a nightmare. He is very advance in math and is taking differential equations this year, so going back to the SAT level math took a little time and prep. Trying to do test prep, an extremely rigorous senior course load, college apps, college essays, and take the tests made for a very stressful fall. While he did get his math scores up 780 SAT1 and 760 Math II, his vebal suffered at a 630 and ran out of time to do anything to bring it up. He was going to take the ACT, but his first attempt was a scratch as he drove to the wrong test site and he was too stressed/exhausted then next test date. I am sure the 630 hurt his chances at some some of the top schools he applied. Things worked out in the end as he did get into GaTech (in his top 3 choices) and managed to maintain his grades to finish ranked #1 in his class.
What this all means for D23 is testing is going to start at least a year or more earlier. She is on the same math track as her brother and is currently taking Algebra II/Trig in 8th grade and will be in Pre-Cal next year. Course rigor was never an issue for her brother as he split his HS time at his home school and a regional Governor’s STEM school and she is considering the same track. The big difference is her current EC. She is a competitive gymnast and has been competing since age 6. At her level she practices 4 hours a day 6 days a week during the school year and more during the summer. Many of the girls at her gym home school at the gym so school doesn’t get in the way of training. She is a very good gymnast, as she just returned from states with 2nd place in 2 events a 4th all around for her level and age group. As good as she is, she is beginning to realize that you have to be elite to do college gymnastics. There is also no way she would be able to do the same type of HS course rigor her brother did and still do gymnastics at her level and higher. She would be very limited in most any other HS EC if she continues gymnastics at this level. On her own, she has started to contemplate if it is time to quit or maybe drop down to a less competitive level/gym. The big draw back from quitting is that she really has nothing else and will be starting from scratch on ECs. I guess this is the start and we will see what the next 4 years bring.
Though @racereer, I will note that sometimes it’s worth taking a step back and remembering that a 630 verbal SAT is still ~80%ile—that is, scoring better than about 80% of the college-bound senior population—and as your S19’s outcome (getting into GaTech) shows, it isn’t actually as necessary to end up with a >95%ile score or such to get into even hypercompetitive colleges.
So yeah, taking a different approach may work for your D23, but remember to not push her beyond what’s okay for her. College Confidential can be a weird bubble where it feels like not only is everyone above average (a mathematical impossibility, by the way), but everyone’s way above average, and so if your kid isn’t overwhelmingly spectacular in every way, both you and your child have failed.
This is not only incorrect, it is dangerous. Yes, involved parenting is key—and being on the CC forum is a sign of being involved—but trying overly intensely to channel your kid in specific ways to meet a specific end to the whole high school process is at least as likely to backfire on you as it is to produce whatever measure of success one might choose to look at.
TL;DR: No, @racereer, you didn’t “really mess up in some areas”. You did just fine with your S19, and you’re likely to do just fine with your D23—as are we all, whether our kids end up with a 4.0UW/1600SAT and multiple world records in their sport of choice, or with a 2.7W/940SAT and no real ECs but a bunch of friends they like hanging out with.
@dfbdfb I guess “really mess up” might have a little harsh, we just want to avoid the super stressful senior fall semester that we had by trying to fit everything in. We will be much better informed on the process and timing of things the next time around.
We understand 630 is not a bad score and told my son the same thing. He is own harshest critic and thinks he could of done better but he also understands that it might not have made any difference for the schools he was denied from. He is very self driven and we do not have to push him at all.
D23 is similar but not quite as intense as her brother. We are letting her decide on gymnastics and if she wants do the Gov School track like her brother. She also knows it is ok if she quits gymnastics and still not do the Gov school. The only thing we told her is if she does quit gymnastic she needs to find another activity she likes and get involved.
@racereer - really great post. This is our fourth (and final) time going through the college admissions gauntlet. I have thought long and hard about ways to eliminate the stress/pressure on the kids (junior and first semester senior year). I have not found it, but there are a few things to help mitigate it. You are so right about starting some of the SAT/ACT prep early. Just getting used to the exam and getting one in the bag early lowers the stress. I would advise that for the kids taking SAT Subject matter tests, take them right after you take the AP class in that subject, as it is very stressful to try and go back to re-learn subjects you took an earlier year (while you are prepping for regular exams). Also, the summer between junior and senior year is the time for the students to write those college application essays. Think about topics and themes in the spring. Just get them done. Otherwise Thanksgiving holidays and Christmas break are vulnerable to being less than festive. For students who have fall sports, think about taking the ACT in July or the SAT in August because your Saturdays get eaten up by their sport.
Congratulations on Ga.Tech - wow what a great school!
Hello… yet another migrant from the 2017 thread (and occasionally the 2020 thread). Hi @thermom@dfbdfb@Dolemite !
My S23 is our youngest of three, with two older sisters (2017 and 2020). While he’s strong in math and science, he’s also our creative one, our lover of musical theater and drama productions. He’s also into parkour and first-person view drone flying. Look up FPV drone racing on youtube if you’ve never heard of this before. It’s cool stuff!
My D17 goes to Temple University in Philly as an EE major. She’s also a competitive fencer on their team, so I know more about athletic recruiting than I ever would have guessed.
I have a D20 that toured SUNY Buffalo today, and also visited Drexel last week and met with a department head, with much thanks to a person I met on the 2017 thread who made the intro. Also has visited SUNY Binghamton, Temple, Rutgers, UToronto, and McGill in Montreal. She’ll likely apply as a CS major with a heavy side of math. She’s into Broadway musicals (she’s the one that got S23 hooked on acting/musical theater), and she dances all the time (thus my current avatar).
@glido your description of less than festive Thanksgiving and Christmas sounds very familiar. On top of everything else we were trying to put together arts portfolios for voice and musical theater for the schools that accepted them. The funny thing was GaTech was his very first application he submitted in Oct for EA and it didn’t have an arts portfolio, though his common app includes links to some of his performances. I wonder if admissions people even follow those links? So the other 11 apps after that were all for not (I know it doesn’t work that way). He is very happy with admit to GaTech, thanks.
(I know it doesn’t work that way). He is very happy with admit to GaTech, thanks.