ITA!! It’s such a pain to have to recalculate UW GPA too. Sad thing is that his school is on a 6.0 scale. 
Question: Do top universities care whether a high performing student is in a gifted and talented program or if they withdraw? Background: My D23 is deciding her classes for junior year. She works hard and makes great grades. She will be taking 5 AP classes. She has been in gifted and talented since first grade. However, unlike my D21 who is miserable outside of the GT environment, D23 isn’t a big fan (well, depends on who ends up in her classes). Thanks!
In our experience the, GT tag doesn’t mean much at high school level like it does in elementary and middle schoo. 2 out of 3 of my kids were/are GT and we found once high school started, all those kids migrated to AP heavy courses anyway. Our district has some honors sections in high school that are “GT”, but my kids didn’t notice anything different about them then their other honors/AP classes. For the in state public universities that most kids here end up at (UT Austin, TAMU etc) the “GT” doesn’t matter much. I have a friend whose husband works in Admissions for UTD and he said that when they see “GT” on a course they don’t really give it much weight.
This could just be a North Texas thing though.
2 Likes
IMO, no because gifted education is not standardized across high schools. At our high school, all students can take classes together whether or not they are identified as TAG (Talented and Gifted). TAG kids do get priority for AP/IB classes in accordance with their individual learning plans, but there is no special programming; the TAG coordinator’s role is to counsel and advise gifted kids about extracurricular academic opportunities.
As long as your D takes the most rigorous courses available to her, she should meet the bar for selective colleges.
1 Like
We were also told the GT tag did not mean much as well and we dropped it. However, my former GT child is choosing to under perform so it is frustrating.
I’m letting him forego the most rigourous courseload in order to refocus and bring up the GPA instead. Never was it my sons intent to go to a T20 or T50 even college. My only concern was finances and possible FACHEX and TE options. He will likely end in the 3.3-3.4 range when he is applying for colleges and that limits his options for potentially free colleges. He will just have to accept that and either choose one that he can get FACHEX or TE at (which are usually not well known or competitive schools) or accept one of our lower ranked state schools (as he probably would not be accepted into our state flagship which is well ranked).
Mom does not have a money tree.
2 Likes
our HS doesnt have a G&T program per se. Kids can take AP or honors classes with teacher permission. . . but no formal program. Of course, i dont have any kids at elite schools - so i don’t know their thought process.
I can say that my S15 was always in GT in grade school, and hated it. He felt like a nerd and that feeling lasted through HS and college. He wanted nothing to do with honors programs. this has not hurt him in any way with his job so far. He’s killing it as an actuary.
1 Like
Well, grades dropped a ton. Im not happy. Super annoyed. All he cares about is making money and working. He isnt focusing on school or making that a priority. I dont know what to do. I didnt want him to get this job last summer and I think his dad complains about money often so the kid is desperate to make enough money to buy a car in a couple months. I applaud his work ethic but I think school should be the priority. Dad and I are divorced for 10 years. Dad makes about 200k/yr (which in the midwest that is pretty substantial) but wont give our oldest son a dime for college so I know this son sees that and worries. But Ive tried to make him understand that good grades will do more for him financially then his job bussing tables on the weekends but Im a parent and I know nothing of course.
Junior class registration is happening now. We talked. I cant push anything. He doesnt want to take the AP core classes. I think if I try to force him he will do what he is doing now and continue to tank his grades. Hes taking 2 “honors” classes plus precalc and he hates them. He used to enjoy school (we have been in person the whole school year so he cant blame online for this).
Hes going to take the normal core classes next year. English, college math (he wont take AP Calc so this math class is a local tech college math class) and physics (he says no to AP physics) . He is choosing to take AP music theory as thats an interest of his. Hes also going to take a college level elective on finance (its not AP but is weighted and gives college credits). Other electives are spanish 3, band and choir.
Hes thinking of considering music education as a major. Im hoping he can get the GPA back up to about a 3.2-3.5 by graduation. Acceptance to music related fields is more complicated with possible auditions needed. He said he wants a school with spirit (well thats my translation of what he said), football games preferred. And he wants to study abroad a semester and possibly work that into his major to still graduate on time.
FACHEX and TE schools will be applied to mostly due to financial constraints but with his grades dropping and the pandemic causing colleges to make budget cuts, we shall see. Oldest chose tech school so we never visited college campuses. We have some trips coming up so I started to put together a list of places to look into or drive by at least if we are in the area.
Gonzaga, Xavier, Loyola-New Orleans - he may have a better chance at FACHEX schools
Stetson (FL)
Belmont (TN)
Syracuse (NY)
Depauw (IN)
Butler (IN)
Temple ¶
Jacksonville (FL)
Lawrence (WI)
U of Pacific (CA)
Chapman (CA)
Case Western Reserve (OH)
Gettysburg ¶
Gustavus Adolphus (MN)
U of St. Thomas (MN)
U of Redlands (CA)
Otterbein (OH)
U of Puget Sound (WA)
As usual I feel better typing this out and getting it out of my head. This is one the few places where people dont think that me thinking of these kinds of things is crazy. WIth college being so expensive the more I look at options, the less I stress and worry.
5 Likes
@2plustrio - Please make sure you check out the thread for students in the 3.5 gpa range lots of great suggestions and advise on different schools. MyD23 was in that range as well and the one bit of advise I would give is for these students a shotgun approach is very helpful. For my D we started with a list of about 100 potential schools that were a fit based on major and location. By senior year we had added in different criteria based on something she liked or didn’t like and in the end narrowed it down to 20 schools that she applied to. She got into 18, was deferred a year at one and 1 rejection. From there it was just finding the best fit of program, and financials, and weighing out the extras (Location, Campus, Althelics, etc).
Best of luck on your journey!
4 Likes
First off, I’m looking forward to hearing your tour reports—several (like, a really surprising number) of these schools are on my D23’s list (for music tech, not performance), and since it’s hard for us to do college tours, I appreciate being able to tour vicariously.
But back about 4 years ago we toured one of the colleges on your list with my D17 and D19: St Thomas. Things may have changed, of course, but we were pleasantly surprised—it was kind of a throwaway add-on because we were in town to tour Macalester and the University of Minnesota anyway—and my high-stats D17 applied there as a (for her) safety, was admitted, and was very tempted to go there. (Their commitment to Catholic social justice appealed very strongly to her non-Catholic self.) One mild caution when researching them, some online reviews may be very out of date about them—f’rex, I’ve seen several old reviews that complain about the campus buildings being ugly, but they got a massive donation some years back (from someone who likes the school, wasn’t even an alum!) and went on a building spree in which they paid attention to actual design concerns, not just utility. The campus does suffer from having a semi-significant road cutting through campus, but the physical plant isn’t ugly, not by a long shot.
(Lots of purple in building interiors, BTW. We joked that the one thing that would cross them off anyone’s list would be if you don’t like purple.
)
Turning to another part of your post: There is hope. My D19 biffed her freshman year of high school. Like, biffed it badly. But now, after getting woken up a bit by that (and in part because our school district allows you to retake 9th-grade courses and have the original grade expunged from your transcript), she’s working on her engineering degree at Mississippi State with a quite solid scholarship.
And for an even more extreme case, I kind of skated through high school, graduating with a 3.3ish, went to college and flunked out after freshman year. But that woke me up, and—with the admission that it was way more stressful and expensive than it would have been if I’d applied myself to it earlier—I now hold a PhD from an Ivy and am a full professor.
So yeah, past performance is often indicative of future trends, but not as often as people seem to think.
And finally, on a perhaps more personal level: My D23 has thrived academically—even while it’s been brutal on her emotionally—with online classes, so my daughter’s college-seeking experience isn’t really going to be quite the same as your son’s. But there are enough parallels (including that she’s not really excited about the whole thing) that I quite look forward to sharing stories and experiences with you going forward.
4 Likes
Covid is putting a kink in our travel plans but throwing together a list of just in cases. Like my daughter is supposed to be in the Twin Cities in a few months. S23 may or may not be with us. Being that he’s at dad’s EOW, it restricts visits. My daughter travels with dance but son often stays back.
Oldest graduated with around a 2.0. He’s had some challenges in college but he’s living on his own and figuring out his own path and I’m extremely proud of him.
S23 I have no real worries about. Hes going to succeed and be okay. Grades in no way define a person. I only fret about finances and him getting to a place where he might get some money at a school that will make him happy and where he feels comfortable at. For that only I know grades matter.
I like the twin cities area having been there but son thinks it may be “too midwest” yet. Funny you mentioned purple because I see my son commenting on that if he visits. The option of study abroad very much interests him as he loves to travel and see new places.
He will land on his feet. Hes a good kid. I just feel bad that the money my son kind of expected might not be there.
1 Like
Love your list and I also will be thrilled with visit reports!
My 2019 kid was also a middling scholar; ended up with a 3.2, I think, but is doing fine after getting a unique-ish full-tuition scholarship to WVU to their theater tech program.
We did tour Otterbein and it was on our short list - great school but I don’t think it has football? Not positive.
You can do a nice road trip cobbling together Temple, then Gettysburg, then Otterbein and CWRU and Xavier in Ohio …
If you’re wanting some other Jesuit options, how about Scranton? Well-regarded and gets a bit of love on cc. My hubby’s family is from the area so it’s familiar to us.
3 Likes
Meanwhile, we clearly booked our (awesome) trip to Florida too early. Almost 3 feet of snow over the last few days and all I can think of is that I should be back on the beach.
Kid did amazing at the mock trial competition (his team won their division), but since he was only on the JV unit and also b/c of covid, there is no more competition this entire school year, and he’s a bit floored by spending 3 intense months of prep for literally two days of competition and that’s it.
(Seems like the talkie equivalent of a high school musical to me, but what do I know?)
He’s keeping his grades decent, but tbh, not perfect - a B in every term so far - and he doesn’t have a chance at any of these high-flying Ivies he keeps talking about without close to perfection. So we will keep our list long and fluid for now 
One good thing: his best friend’s dad is a federal public defender, and has agreed that he can do an internship at his office this summer, which is awesome on so many levels.
3 Likes
There is no school that I think will be perfect in his eyes that will fit within our budget. Sure he may love the location of Santa Clara or LMU but those dont have defined music ed majors. (Which I dont believe Scranton does either). The only one on the list which he might view as perfect location is U of Redlands. He wants to be either near the beach or water OR be near the mountains. Or within an hour of “something”. He loves the ocean and loves to ski. He doesnt mind the cold but wants skiing or mountains preferably to go with it.
IF he goes down the path towards music education, he needs to apply for that specific program, consider auditions if required, and yet be at a school with back up majors if he changes his mind (solid in business, econ, prelaw type degrees for example). Many schools have music programs but not music education.
Theres a list of non FACHEX and TE schools as well.
(Trinity and Western Colorado are TE)
UIUC
UW-Mad
U of Minn-Twin Cities
U of Utah
U of Wyoming
U of Nevada-Reno
Montana State U
Vanderbilt
Uni of New Mexico
U of Colorado Boulder
U of Vermont
Ohio State
ASU
See, Im crazy but hey, I like lists. 
1 Like
If you’re chasing merit, you should probably cross CU Boulder off the list. OOS tuition is pricey (54k/yr) and they’re stingy with merit. The largest scholarship is 55k over four years and awarded to students who are in the top 1-3% of the admitted nonresident class.
From your other list: I’ve heard good things about Belmont. A friend’s D is studying music there and really enjoying herself. Wonderful sense of community and location for artistic kids.
@mountainsoul
Oh yeah, Boulder would be the extremely rare, “dad is giving me tons of money” maybe option. I only throw it on there as his cousin is applying there so hes heard of the school. I know it wont happen financially.
Im taking a class myself right now and the professor actually also teaches at Belmont so I plan to ask some questions the end of the semester. I too have heard decent things so it could stay on the list as we move forward.
Im glad your friends D is enjoying it there. For us, it is not about prestiage of a school at all, I just want my kids to learn, explore, and be happy while they find their path to adulting.
2 Likes
my D16 was studying in chicago 4 years ago; and we were able to get Hamilton tickets; and one of the main characters was a student from Belmont. Incredibly impressive! We are midwest; know some kids at Colorado state who love it.
I just think anywhere with great geography is going to be pricey. . . for S20 FSU was probably the best value/location option. Maybe consider that too.
1 Like
Fun to hear tour reports for our sophomores! I love the Twin Cities and have family there. My S21 went to a local info session about U of MN but ultimately decided he wanted to stay closer to home so it didn’t make it on his list.
D23 just finished 1st semester. Glad that’s over and she’s starting with a clean slate. She’s really struggled with distance learning but did at least pass all her classes. Got a couple Cs, a couple Bs, a couple As. She was diagnosed in the fall with Inattentive ADHD. After some trial and error she thinks the med she’s trying now is helpful, and we have her going to an in-person tutoring center 3 afternoons a week. I think with all that she is going to have a better rest of the year. Fortunately, I know from some rough quarters with my S21 that our transcripts only show the full year grade and I think she’s in a good position to average out to a B in those classes where she has struggled.
We also met with D23’s counselor yesterday to plan out her 11th-12th grade classes. I feel good about where she settled out. We’re bucking the trend at her competitive HS and insisting on “only” three AP/IB classes – she’ll take AP English, Calculus AB, and IB Biology HL. Not taking APUSH, sticking with regular US History. She’s done two social studies APs (World History in 9th, Gov in 10th), hated both and had to work hard for a B. I think she’s better off focusing on her strength in science and I know she’ll love IB Biology. Also taking French 5, regular Physics, symphonic/marching band.
I’m really working on trying to counter the college pressure she’s getting from her school and peers. She had a big panic attack about a school issue a couple weeks ago and all this anxiety and stress about college came pouring out. So, once she’d calmed down we spent some time talking about how there are so many different options for college and given her goals and our budget that there are some LACs that would be a great fit for her. I’d love to do some casual tours this Spring break (we did that for S21 in 10th) but looks like that won’t be likely. But, I think she’s taken our talk to heart and she feels good about dialing down the intensity in her class schedule even if it means not taking all the same classes as friends.
2 Likes
I get the pressure. I think my attempting to get my son to start thinking about the future had him freaking out a bit. Big bro is at a tech school so I’ve been open with S23 that no matter what path he chooses Im fine with it (4 year, tech school, or job/apprenticeship). I do tell him that if he wants the 4 year that he has to put in some work. I know he wants to get away from both of us parents and I want him to move away as well because I know thats best for him based on the circumstances and just his personality.
Trying to force him into AP classes he doesnt love just to be competitive for college apps didnt seem to be the right thing to do for my son either based off his first semester and his declining attitude towards school. We dont have much options for AP in frosh and soph years (and all but 2 were electives anyways). He took “honors” (we call it different) english, math and science for 2 years. He will end up taking probably 3 other AP courses by the time he graduates. That will have to be enough and we will see where the dice lands.
3 Likes
Wholeheartedly agree with this philosophy. D19 needed a change of scenery but S23 is more easygoing and can bloom where planted. He’s interested in Comp Sci so I’m taking a hard look at our in-state options for him; he can get an excellent education at either CU Boulder or Colorado School of Mines.
You’ve certainly done your homework and put together an extensive list of colleges. Looking forward to reading your tour synopses!
3 Likes
If he stays with music ed, there’s a top 25 school for that 2 hours from home he could likely get free tuition at. But, he will likely choose someplace else simply because he wants the experience of living elsewhere. Time will tell. I never left home and I regret it. I’m not going to clip this kid’s wings. We have 2 years yet.