I guess we’ll see for sure in a couple weeks but basing it only the experiences of kids last year and the early action/decision results this year. I anticipate the high test standardized scores, high AP scores and NMF status will not result in getting into any reaches. Those scores value GPA, hooks and exceptional EC’s so much more than test scores that at best test scores are exclusionary but not inclusionary and with test optional one can easily avoid the exclusionary part. With matches, test scores are similarly of so little value, but they can give some schools who care about yield pause that the person has more prospects than they really do. The bottom line is GPA trumps all (other than strong hooks). A 3.89 with an 1560 is not as competitive as a 3.96 with a 1400, all else (including course rigor) being equal.
I disagree with this in several respects. Other than some of the largest state schools, colleges are still looking at the context of the student’s school, otherwise, students from my D23’s private school would not be admitted anywhere, as they have grade deflation. Second, test optional students have always underperformed students with high test scores coming from our school, even with similar grade profiles, unless the test optional student is in some way hooked. The students finding the most success remain those with high gpa and high test scores.
Unfortunately, there will be no large scale data release by the schools to help us determine which of our conjectures based on local data holds true across the board.
Congrats! It’s a great area, and yeah, the fishing is sublime.
I also think it’s in a much more healthy place than Sewanee - other colleges & kids, culture, outdoors. We toured Sewanee for D19 - it’s gorgeous, but so, so isolated and I’ve read lots of stuff about a major drinking culture on campus (because there’s nothing else to do, at all, until you hit Chattanooga 40 miles away). No firsthand knowledge, though, just what I read.
Sounds you and we have different local experiences. Mine extends to many work colleagues and friends in the region, not just our school, but Baltimore is a bit south of our region.
The situation changed pretty drastically a couple years ago when almost every school went test optional. Prior to that high scores did statistically help locally. The results since then changed. Our youngest has substantially higher test scores than our oldest, a slightly higher u/w GPA, higher course rigor and was more accomplished in his biggest EC, but will likely not get into schools that were considered safeties for the oldest (where they offered him great merit at the time) and all of the oldest’s matches are now reaches, etc.
Some of this is a general trend in top 100 schools getting more competitive and putting more emphasis on ED/EDII — if you don’t play that game that is a substantial handicap. But there’s also been a massive reduction in the weighting of test scores in admissions decisions in the last couple of years for these schools, including the state school. And then there’s California where they won’t even consider them.
I guess where we differ is the last paragraph. If schools aren’t valuing high test scores or are valuing them less, average test scores wouldn’t have increased as much as they have over the past three years at test optional schools, especially since we know that most selective schools are still taking 70 percent or more of their class with test scores. I think the number of applications has increased so much at highly rejective schools, they are rejecting a greater number of kids with top scores because they are rejecting a greater number of kids period.
I wouldn’t disagree that schools are using test optional to accept a greater number of hooked students, especially first gen and urm, but that doesn’t seem to be what your asserting.
Self selection. Now that students have the option to submit or not, those that choose to do so are inclined to be higher scorers. Average scores are going up at less highly rejective schools too, out of sync with average test scores nationally. Absent other data, the 70% who subject scores at highly rejective schools might have gotten in regardless of their score, which could have been high enough to simply be non exclusionary. What would be interesting to see is data showing that the 70% had lower average GPA’s than the 30% who didn’t submit.
Could you send me the data you are referencing — would be interested in reading more about it. Thanks.
I would be interested in the schools you are talking about that moved from the safety and match categories for your youngest.
Eager to hear if he ends ups there. We just visited for S24 a couple weeks ago and we all loved it.
Not sure if she babysits at all but they are paid really really well here. My 15 year-old gets $15-$20 per hour!!! I went to BC and babysat all four years and made a ton of money and schools usually have postings on their career center websites or sitter city/care.com.
My D19 wanted an urban campus when she was looking. She ended up at MiamiOH and Oxford OH is anything but urban although you can be in Cincinnati pretty quick. I think she realized that at Miami things are much cheaper overall. Sure things are missing from a town like that, but I think she liked her decision in the long run.
If they had industrial engineering (they have manufacturing engineering, which is close but not quite), Miami is probably where my D19 would have aimed for—the campus is the most stunning I’ve ever visited, and I’ve visited a lot.
(Well, stunning in D19’s and my opinions. D17 didn’t care for it. I still don’t know what’s up with that, I really don’t.)
Go Tritons!
FWIW We have two friends who graduated from Loyola Nola last spring… one was Bio Major and is now getting masters in public health at Tulane, the other was a business major, now in law school at Loyno. While there IS fun to be had in Nola, the Loyola kids tend to be less rowdy than the Tulane kids from what we hear (directly from a student as well as from friends who live around both campuses.) My S23 has also been accepted CompSci/Game Design and Honors.
My D21 softball player from Western PA who had to play a lot of tournaments and spend a lot of time in Ohio said “I’ll never go to college in Ohio.”
Lo and behold Miami of Ohio showed her the love with a tuition Plus merit award (not to mention an idyllic campus) and she is thriving. Also because of the AP credits they accepted she changed majors each of her first 3 semesters (Nursing, Mechanical Engineering and now Data Analytics and Statistics) and she can still finish in 4 years.
My D23 was the same way…has spent some time in Ohio and didn’t want to apply to any schools there. I wish we’d toured it though because from everything I know it seems like it would be a perfect fit for her. A friend’s kid recently graduated and he loved his experience there. My D has insisted for years that she wants a college in warmer weather (we live in the Northeast) - but somehow she ended up applying to a school that’s located in one of the snowiest cities in America and its now one of her top choices! I didn’t realize how much she her college preferences might evolve might during her senior year so I wish she’d given Miami a good look.
@beverlywest Thank you! It’s not often the kids recognize how much work went into college research so that was nice.
@gatormama Thanks - the town was so nice! I don’t know that Sewanee would have been a good fit, he just thought the campus looked so beautiful and loved the idea that kids got a little dressed up for classes. Roanoke was also up on his list but once he realized we’d need to take two flights to get to either of those schools he changed his mind.
D19 wasn’t interested in Miami at all. She had friends visit and they talked about the 45 min drive on country roads to get there and how it was rural compared to our home area. I made her apply. I knew merit could be decent. Fast forward to April and she is still deciding weighing offers. We took a trip to visit. On the tour the tour guide told her story of how she didn’t want to come to Miami but her Mom made her apply and she love it. It was like I planted the girl on the tour. D19 committed on that trip and we put down a deposit.
Overall a good school. It is probably lower on the rankings than it should be because of the lack of graduate programs.
The insanity that is college admissions in America:
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No uniform timeline of admissions decisions…you may find out in 2 weeks, you may be waiting 6 months to hear back
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Some schools guarantee housing, others don’t. Schools where housing shortages exist, you have to pay to start a housing application before you even know if you’re accepted to have any chance of on campus dorms. Other schools you can’t start a housing application until you ARE accepted but if you’re accepted late, you’re screwed at any chance of dorms because they go time stamp on housing apps
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Some schools send out scholarships awards with acceptances others wait and release in drips. Full financial aid packages with complete cost of attendance come much later in the game, yet you’re rushed to commit without seeing final numbers because see housing conundrum above
You finally commit to School A…pay enrollment deposits…sign dorm contract and pay housing deposit (of course all non-refundable!!)…Your kid starts to cancel all other apps and housing contracts, eating the deposits put down…and then School B decides to let you know that Hey! even though we’re not known at ALL for given merit scholarships, pretty much say not to expect a dime unless you’re a National Merit Finalist because we don’t need to give away anything to attract students we decided anyway that we like your kid so here’s $5k a year renewable for all 4 years….$20,000 total. Just randomly pops up in a casual email and in the school portal.
I’m tired. So👏🏽Very👏🏽Tired👏🏽
Even though they say non refundable, I’ve heard many people request refunds on deposits and receive them. I would give it a try. The worst they can say is no.
Yes, juggling the fear of no housing for your kid with no information about whether you can even afford to send them there is ridiculous. I have two deposits down already.