I always use theCommon Data Sets (for each college) to find the middle -50% scores(25-75th %ile). An important detail is that the CDS range is the matriculated student range of scores, not the admitted range(often listed on college websites). At some schools admitted range is much higher—especially schools where significantly less than half of admitted students actually enroll. For us it is more useful as a benchmark on the general range of the students ours will potentially attend college with, rather than using it for merit, so we always care more about the matriculation data than the admitted data. Different families will find different uses for the ranges.
2 Likes
I haven’t started digging deep into college research yet, but am wondering based on a comment a few posts up…. Do colleges factor in whether or not high schools have weighted grades when looking at GPA? My daughter currently has about a 4.1, her school has different weights to grades depending on honors, AP or CHS. She is transferring to a boarding school with zero gpa weighting and a long history of grade deflation- supposedly colleges are aware of that, but I wonder if only elite colleges or ones in that region are aware of its reputation. It is a little concerning.
Some of the other things I’ve included in my spreadsheet are Average Non-Need based Merit aid (from common data set), number of graduating in major. My D19 is an education major and I also included pass rates for teaching exams (very telling in quality of education program) this might be pertinent to other exams (CPA for accounting and EIT for engineering)
i just am wondering about schools for the class of 2023. Will GPA trump test scores again? Will schools continue to stay test optional?
The CDS was really helpful for us as well, as it presents the clearest way to see the same information about different schools in a consistent way. What schools choose to write or share or emphasize about themselves on their own web sites or in their marketing materials can be tricky to interpret sometimes because they are so selective about what they want to highlight. The CDS can help to cut through that and let you compare schools by the nuts and bolts.
Being able to see things like admission rates and enrollment by gender and ethnicity, the chart showing what part of the application process they consider very important vs. don’t care about, popularity of different majors, percentage of students who get merit aid - it’s a real treasure trove of information. I definitely recommend gathering the CDS for every school a kid is considering.
5 Likes
Depends on the school. More selective schools have yield calculations based on how a student performs at college versus how they did at a particular HS. This tells them (assuming there is a high enough sample size) how to weigh the grade. What has been emphasized correctly to us is that the HS counselor needs to point out what the rigor of coursework was like. Some reports have boxes, in which case, most rigorous needs to be checked. The other vital thing for many universities is class rank. Large public universities typically do not do these but smaller selective LACs and most Top50 schools have some version of this.
1 Like
I have often wondered if schools are really transparent on CDs or is there some sophistry involved?
Two examples to consider:
William & Mary (great school, we all know this, does not care about rankings):
https://www.wm.edu/offices/ir/cds/index.php (scroll to C)
College of Richmond (selective but def not a top choice for the academically inclined)
Common Data Set - Institutional Effectiveness - University of Richmond (scroll to C)
I purposefully picked two colleges that are geographically close but I have to assume W&M probably attracts more OOS and international students.
Any thoughts??
What is CDS?
To me, the CDS for these twoschools is in line with detailed impressions of both based on living in the state and kids at a HS that sends many to each: wm&M attracts higher-caliber students based on the 75th%ile SAT and the gpa data, which correlates well with who goes from the HS. However—these are both fall 2020 data—they both went to the WL way more than typical! So ignore the higher WL acceptance #s for both, and scores for matriculates may have been lower than normal. Comparing 2019&2018 cds may be more accurate.
1 Like
Most schools have not announced testing policies for 2023. I am hoping for those that normally use testing to go back to it, despite the inherent flaws.
3 Likes
The initials stand for Common Data Set and most US colleges and universities participate in the annual survey put out by the Common Data Set Initiative and post the yearly results on their web sites, although it’s not always easy to find.
The most direct way to find it is by direct search in Google for “college name CDS” and it will bring up a link.
1 Like
Lots of places are staying test-optional through either the 2025 or 2026 entering class. Of course, many of those are only sort of test-optional, because they’ll be using test scores for merit aid calculations.
My daughter got an email from Loyola New Orleans this morning announcing that they’re now officially test-blind for both admission and scholarships. It’s an unusual position among colleges with any degree of selectivity whatsoever, but probably will become less and less unusual going forward.
I’ve said this before to you, but I’m just so skeptical of this whole test-blind thing for merit aid. Maybe it’s a way to dilute merit and give less $$ to more people? Because I don’t see the big enchilada schollys going to kids without some kind of standardized baseline with which to judge.
I’d be thrilled to be proved wrong. But when so many schools have grade inflation, how on earth do you sift?
2 Likes
The best studies I’ve been able to read find that high school grade inflation appears to be fairly uniform across the board, except that there has been more at private schools than public schools. (Though private schools were generally starting from a lower baseline.)
Also, it turns out that researchers have repeatedly (one of the few findings in the social sciences that has been reliably replicated, in this case many times!) found that the single best predictor of first-year college success is high school GPA. (Yes, you have to exclude what are basically high school diploma mills for this to hold—but that’s a very small, as in <1%, fraction of all of them.) This holds up independent of various measures/definitions of “rigor”, by the way.
And finally, if you have a college that has as part of its mission the education of historically underrepresented minority populations, then given the continuing disparities in standardized test scores (even when other measures point to an equally strong knowledge base!), such a college not going at least test-optional is kind of speaking out of both sides of its mouth at once.
(And all that is why I’m in favor of test-optional and -blind policies, even as the parent of kids who do well on the tests.)
4 Likes
What do you mean by “this holds up independent of various measures of rigor?” I guess my concern with no testing is the focus on unweighted GPA which does not take into account rigor. Can you share some of the studies? I am genuinely curious.
I agree that the tests are unfair to minorities and poor people. Although I really think its more just poor people. I think that my black son is on equal footing with whites on tests because he has had the same upper middle class experiences. But I would love to see some studies on that also because maybe I am wrong!
And I hate test blind policies. A high score on the SAT or ACT is, at the very least, an accomplishment that should be considered. I also hate for me personally that it sounds like they are moving the ball again. My son’s high scores were what was going to make college attainable. I don’t have time to adjust my savings to account for not getting merit scholarships because he does not have straight A’s
3 Likes
I thought this article did a good job of pointing out that unlike the SAT, no one has a problem with the ASVAB (which is concordant with SAT scores) because joining the military is only for lower class people:
https://www.robkhenderson.com/past-newsletter/blog-post-title-one-l8s72-ka7t8
5 Likes
Recent high school grad and current student at Harvard here! I would highly recommend parents to encourage their high school juniors to expand their extracurriculars this year by taking on more leadership opportunities. My junior year of high school, I planned a community tree-planting event via the non-profit Tree-Plenish. It was the highlight of high school for me and college admissions officers loved it!
3 Likes
Interesting article. My husband was a high school underachiever who didn’t do homework. Never studied and graduated with a 1.9 gpa. His SAT scores are the only thing that got him into college. He ended up with a PHD and a 4.0 in his Master’s, (one C in his PHD).
My kid is transferring from a HS with huge grade weighting where she had a 4.2 to a top boarding school with zero weighting and a history of grade deflation. I certainly hope schools factor in her ACT score of 34 (her non-studied or prepped for first attempt). They need to look at the whole picture and realize that comparing GPA’s across all applicants is not comparing apples to apples.
2 Likes
@anonmomof2 - i don’t have an answer but have been thinking about your question from your post above - if elite colleges look at the harder schools and their GPA and take that into consideration. i’ll bet you can search these boards though for thoughts on that. Nice job on your daughter’s scores btw. (we’ve always focused on auto merit which up until this year was high ACT/High GPA, but not necessarily from a competitive HS).
i wanted to share my favorite digital nugget - your husband’s story reminds me of this. Its a 6 minute funny true story from the MOTH radio hour from NPR - about an unfocused kid growing up - who then has amazing success. I am not sure this link will come over; if not google “the moth radio storyhour stars rockets and moons” – The Moth | Stories | Stars, Rockets, and Moons – and you’ll understand why i shared that!
1 Like
The reality is schools really do not compare GPAs among schools. They are looking at the the GPA in relation to the school you went to and the rigor of your schedule.
I could see that the while the intent of the “test-optional” might seem like it levels the playing field, I have to wonder if it has the opposite result. If your child goes to a school that has a good reputation with specific universities. They do not need a test result to evaluate the student. However the exceptional student at the unknown school might get passed over without a supporting test score.
5 Likes