This is based on a hyperpolitical topic, but it’s topical for our kids and hopefully can be discussed apolitically: For a good while, demographers have noted for all that the “Big Sort” phenomenon (where individuals tend to cluster residentially with people who act and believe similarly) has taken hold very strongly in the US, geographic college-going patterns have remained pretty resistant to it. That appears to be changing, however, according to Gallup.
2 Likes
Some schools your family may want to consider include:
- Rider (NJ): About 3200 undergrads
- Ithaca (NY): About 4800 undergrads
- U. of Hartford (CT): About 4k undergrads
- Kutztown (PA ): About 6700 undergrads
- York (PA ): About 3500 undergrads
If your family is considering Susquehanna, then it might also want to consider Shenandoah (VA) and Gettysburg (PA ), both of which have about 2400 undergrads. Run the NPCs to see how the financials look.
In thinking about the SUNYs, the ones with music education are all going to be more than a 4-hour drive away, but these are the ones I’d look into:
- U. at Buffalo: About 21k undergrads
- SUNY Buffalo State: About 6100 undergrads
- SUNY Fredonia: About 3600 undergrads
- SUNY Potsdam: About 2400 undergrads
1 Like
Hmm, you didn’t exactly ask for any help in brainstorming, which I know you’re very capable of doing. But, you’re always so helpful around the forum that I thought I’d put some brainpower to your D’s meta-list.
First I looked at this Seismic Hazard Map to see which areas would likely be low-risk and be cold enough. I focused primarily on the number of philosophy majors, using that as a proxy for the strength of the program (either absolute or relative). Then I looked at econ to see if (if available) breakdowns between general econ and econometrics/quantitative economics, aiming for a stronger focus on the former than the latter, though I do specify if I was getting iffy with the numbers of grad students in more quantitative econ rather than general econ). Lastly, I separated the schools into 4 charts: Small schools (fewer than 3k undergrads), mid-sized (3-10k), large (10k+), and WUE schools, as certain affordability is always nice to have! Also, all are classified as residential colleges (except Eastern Washington where I indicated percentage of first years living on-campus). And for Master’s I assumed MA in Philosophy and MS in Econ, but it’s whatever the Master’s degree was for the university; don’t take my degree designations as worth anything.
Small (0-3k undergrads)
| University | Approx. # Undergrads | # of Philosophy Majors | # of Econ Majors |
|---|---|---|---|
| Albion (MI) | 1500 | 5 | 13 |
| Hobart William Smith (NY) | 1700 | 7 | 59 |
| Kalamazoo (MI) | 1200 | 11 | 16 |
| Smith (MA) | 2600 | 5 | 15 (in general econ, 20 in econometrics & quant. econ) |
| St. Lawrence (NY) | 2200 | 11 | 60 |
| Union (NY) | 2100 | 9 | 82 |
| Washington & Jefferson (PA ) | 1200 | 6 | 26 |
| Wheaton (MA) | 1700 | 7 | 10 |
| Whitman (WA) | 1600 | 12 | 18 |
Medium (3-10k undergrads)
| University | Approx. # Undergrads | # of Philosophy Majors | # of Econ Majors |
|---|---|---|---|
| SUNY Geneseo | 4500 | 6 | 30 |
| SUNY New Paltz | 6300 | 14 | 10 |
| SUNY Purchase | 3400 | 7 | 15 |
| U. of Minnesota – Duluth | 9k | 7 | 29 (general) & 3 (other) |
| U. of Wisconsin – La Crosse | 9400 | 5 | 21 |
Large (more than 10k undergrads)
| University | Approx. # Undergrads | # of Philosophy Majors | # of Econ Majors |
|---|---|---|---|
| Binghamton (NY) | 14k | 9 (& 3 MA & 4 PhD) | 179 in General Econ (w/5 PhD)…they have 126 in Applied Econ |
| Central Michigan | 11k | 5 | 11 (w/11 MA) |
| Grand Valley State (MI) | 19k | 7 | 15 |
| Stony Brook (NY) | 18k | 14 (w/ 8 MA & 6 PhD) | 186 (w/6 MS & 4 PhD) |
| U. at Buffalo (NY) | 21k | 11 (w/2 MA & 3 PhD) | 118 (w/5 MS & 4 PhD, & 24 MS in Econometrics) |
| U. of Iowa | 22k | 25 (w/3 MA & 2 PhD) | 84 (w/1 Econometrics MS & 2 PhD) |
| U. of Nebraska – Lincoln | 20k | 4 (w/3 MA) | 20 (w/ 3 econometrics PhD) |
| U. of New Hampshire | 12k | 9 | 60 (w/4 econometrics MS & 2 PhD) |
| U. of Wisconsin - Milwaukee | 19k | 9 (w/ 9 MA) | 36 (w/10 MS in Econometrics & 2 PhD) |
WUE
| University | Approx. # Undergrads | # of Philosophy Majors | # of Econ Majors |
|---|---|---|---|
| Eastern Washington (67% of first-years live on-campus) | 8200 | 13 | 10 |
| Montana State | 15k | 4 | 18 |
| U. of Idaho | 8600 | 10 | 5 |
| U. of Montana (getting too close to seismic activity?) | 7200 | 5 (6 MA) | 12 (3 MS) |
| U. of North Dakota | 9700 | 6 | 6 (w/20 MS in Econometrics) |
| U. of South Dakota | 7k | 5 | 9 |
4 Likes
All of the schools I mention below are ABET-accredited for chemical engineering:
Small & Catholic:
- Benedictine (KS): About 2200 undergrads
- Christian Brothers (TN): About 1300 undergrads
- Manhattan (NY): About 3200 undergrads
- U. of Dayton (OH): About 8600 undergrads…obviously not “small,” but…
“Smaller” Schools
- Clarkson (NY): About 2900 undergrads
- Illinois Institute of Technology: About 3k undergrads
- Louisiana Tech: About 10k undergrads and they tend to have very generous merit aid
- New Jersey Institute of Technology: About 9200 undergrads
- Rose-Hulman (IL): About 2100 undergrads
- Stevens Institute of Technology (NJ): About 4100 undergrads
- Tennessee Tech: About 8400 undergrads
- Trine (IN): About 3800 undergrads
- Tuskegee (AL): About 2200 undergrads at this HBCU
- U. of Alabama – Huntsville: about 7600 undergrads
- U. of Minnesota – Duluth: about 9k undergrads
- U. of Tulsa (OK): About 2700 undergrads, Presbyterian affiliation
Larger Schools that also tend to give good merit aid (If he likes UIUC, then a big state school with a national reputation and sports fandom might appeal)
- Iowa State: About 26k undergrads
- Kansas State: About 16k undergrads
- U. of Alabama: About 32k undergrads.
- U. of Arkansas – About 24k undergrads, and your son would qualify for a significant discount as y’all are from a neighboring state.
- West Virginia: About 20k undergrads
And YES to @ColdWombat’s suggestion of Louisville!
3 Likes
Ah, so you’re also putting off tasks you need to but don’t want to complete, I see!
But seriously, excellent list, and thanks for the time you spent on it.
2 Likes
What gave it away?
To help with your procrastinating…
Okay, D25 is almost done with sophomore year. She is going to ESSYI at Hobart and William Smith this summer. We might try to visit a few other schools while on vacation, but haven’t decided where yet.
4.0 at competetive public high school
1340 on PSAT, I’m guessing it will go up junior year but not to NMF level
In Missouri but not considering any in state schools
Still looking at environmental science/studies, but would like psychology and some sort of gender studies offered
LGBTQ friendly is a must
Prefer blue or purple states
She wants to know if there’s are any schools where she could pole vault but not on a team lol
We went to a big college fair yesterday, but most of the colleges on “her” list were not there. She really liked Macalester after talking to the rep. She liked the smaller size, the fieldwork possible in ES, and how LGBTQ friendly they are.
Based on that what other schools would you recommend? These are some of our current possibilities. Anything that should be a definite no? Any not huge safety schools you recommend? Thanks.
Bates
Bowdoin
Carleton
Colby
Cornell
Hobart and William Smith Colleges
Macalester
Middlebury
Mount Holyoke
Pitzer
Pomona
Scripps
St Olaf
University of Minnesota
University of Oregon
University of Vermont
University of Washington
Washington College
Weslyan
Willamette
2 Likes
I’m going to have to stop procrastinating soon, but I’ll give your D’s list some thought. Do all of the current schools work with your budget? And are you looking for other schools near Hobart & William Smith to visit while dropping off or picking up from camp? Or colleges for the regular “college search?”
One school off the top of my head that would be another reach, but not as reachy as many of those on your list, is Colorado College.
ETA: Giving it a bit more thought, I’d look into:
- Pacific Luterhan (WA): About 2400 undergrads
- Seattle U: About 4200 undergrads
- Skidmore (NY): About 2700 undergrads
- St. Michael’s (VT): About 1400 undergrads
- U. of Denver (CO): About 5900 undergrads
- U. of Redlands (CA): About 2600 undergrads
- Whitman (WA): About 1600 undergrads
For St. Mike’s, this is their first sentence of their About Us page: “We’re a Catholic school that is welcoming to every faith background, culture, and identity.” Seattle U is Jesuit, which generally has a similar philosophy with a focus on social justice and service.
Hope this helps!
1 Like
Probably more in general. We are going to Seattle next month. We might go to Minnesota in August since it isn’t too far.
I edited my post above. 
1 Like
At least for my 21 this consideration was on her list, and it’s high on the list for my 25.
I’m ok with that for a couple reasons. First, eventually the whole family is likely relocating, both girls and one of the 2 boys have made it clear that returning here is a non-starter, and the other boy who is indifferent likely won’t return because of job opportunities. They are all somewhat onboard with at least trying to find a common location. And if they do I will follow. So it makes sense to test drive a possible new location during college that has long term possibilities.
Second, I worry about medically necessary but not available abortion. I think it’s kind of an edge case and I’m not super worried. But especially for the next few years while laws are rapidly changing and doctors are adjusting to the new environment, there appears to be some grey area where doctors are afraid to do procedures that are necessary to protect long term health, at least without first letting the condition deteriorate to a dangerous level. That isn’t super likely to matter to our family personally for a variety of reasons, but I’m a parent, I worry about a lot of unlikely things.
2 Likes
Ok, I’ll ask: are there any schools that are especially good for psych? Or (leaving dance aside), do I need to help her whittle via other qualities in a school? I feel like every school aside from the various institutes of technology has a psych degree. I’ve found lists here and there, but I’m unclear the criteria used to make them. Unlike other grad schools (read med/law) PsyD programs don’t seem to list from where their class hails, so that’s not helping me either. My suspicion is that as long as it’s a solid school, their psych will be reasonable, but that doesn’t narrow the field at all. That’s ok, but if I’m wrong, I’d love to hear now.
In response to @dfbdfb , I’ve wondered about this “sorting”. I would love my kids to experience a world outside the SF Bay area for college; they just don’t understand how very liberal this area is compared to the vast majority of the country. I firmly believe in civil discourse and know that my own worldviews have been broadened when I become friends with people unlike me that challenge me to think more deeply about issues upon which we disagree. I’d love to see them in a place where they are not the only one with their beliefs, but they don’t need to be the majority perspective. But it feels very theoretical right now.
3 Likes
There are lots of ways to judge if a school is “good” for psychology. One way is to look at how many undergrad students a school sends on to PhD programs. Even if your child isn’t interested in that route, it provides one proxy measure for how serious her peers will be about the discipline, and how much undergrad research is being encouraged.
This is an amazing resource: Baccalaureate origins of doctoral recipients (highereddatastories.com)
You can also look at Swarthmore’s helpful list to see the most recent five years data broken down not just as raw numbers, but as per capita percentages: Doctorates Awarded :: Institutional Research :: Swarthmore College
They do show this for Psychology.
1 Like
Thank you! I’ll start diving…
You mention PsyD, so clinical psychology vs a PhD in psychology?
D25 is still figuring out all the different clinical degree options, but at this point I think she is considering LMFT and PsyD. (She hasn’t looked into the LPCC degree, but I’m sure she’ll cross that bridge at some point.) So, no, not a PhD.
Are there any other things to look for with respect to a college for your D25 besides psychology & dance? Locations, size, budget?
@AustenNut , I will page you faster than you can say “AustenNut” as soon as I have a better handle on that. All she says right now is that she wants to be around people that are taking their education seriously, does not want a “party school”, and that she wants to be around people that are friendly/nice. So, she could probably find her people anywhere. If I got to put a couple of colleges on her list, I’d put St. Olaf and Whitman, bc I pretty consistently hear about nice kids and strong academics at both. We are full pay and can do that as needed for a good fit for our kids.
1 Like
Thanks for the laugh! I only put a small thinking cap on, but these schools might be good jumping off points in terms of thinking about what your D wants (public, private, west coast, midwest, size, etc). They all have dance majors (some very sizeable majors) but also seem to have some solid psych options.
Small (fewer than 3k undergrads)
- Beloit (WI): About 1k undergrads
- Gustavus Adolphus (MN): About 2300 undergrads
- Kenyon (OH): About 1900 undergrads
- Ohio Wesleyan: About 1300 undergrads
- Reed (OR): About 1500 undergrads
Medium (3-10k undergrads)
- Case Western (OH): About 5800 undergrads
- Chapman (CA): About 7700 undergrads
- Hope (MI): About 3100 undergrads
- Loyola Marymount (CA): About 7100 undergrads
- Southern Methodist (TX): About 6900 undergrads
Large (10+k undergrads)
- Loyola Chicago (IL): About 12k undergrads
- Ohio U: About 18k undergrads with a well-reputed honors program
- U. of Kansas: About 19k undergrads
And if you hadn’t already been thinking about St. Olaf, it definitely would have been on my list, too!
1 Like
This is frickin amazing! As are all of your lists! I think we need to add a Stump @AustenNut challenge and add some obscure criteria to the list (I’m sure our kids would have no trouble with that. Maybe height of showerheads in dorm, @dfbdfb??)
3 Likes