<p>hkfl, As you will note, many of the schools recommended are small liberal arts colleges. This is obviously a very general statement, but LACs tend to be more willing than large universities to take a chance on an applicant based on intellectual "spark" even if grades (or scores) are relativey lower than what they usually expect.</p>
<p>The key is to put together a knockout application that truly showcases the applicant's academic and intellectual potential. Use all the subjective tools to reach out to the admissions committee -- essays, recommendations, resumes, supplemental materials, interviews. In other words if this kid is more than the sum of his statistical parts, the burden of explanation and communication is on his shoulders. He needs to show them who he is and what he can bring to the campus community.</p>
<p>I would say his EC's could use some focus and amplification. I don't mean that he should lie or take up an activity for the purpose of resume building! But he needs to effectively express a deep and compelling interest in something, anything that floats his boat. Abstract interests like reading are difficult to convey, but this is what he needs to work on as he will need to present an attractive and holistic profile to compensate for (again relatively) lackluster grades.</p>
<p>hkfl-
Another thought based on my experience with ds this year. He had visited schools in New York City and had decided he wanted to go to a school in a city - and then liked every small, even rural campus we visited. He loved Bennington and they offered him a merit scholarship of half tuition. Hampshire also offered him merit money and was a very interesting campus. It might be worth it to visit a campus like that and see how he responds. We are certainly on a different track than we were last fall.</p>
<p>hkfl--
My son was almost exactly the same as yours. High SATs, lower gpa. He has been waitlisted at 5 schools-- all of his top choices-- in my belief because we didn't carefully enough reckon the effect that disparity would have on his apps.
However, if you build your son's college choice list from the bottom up-- that is, find out from his guidance counselor or college placement officer what schools to visit that are sure to accept your son, and find one or two that he likes, you will feel much more secure that he will start off in a good place. Add the matches and reaches on top of that. Make sure his essay is not only strong but sets him apart and shows his true personality. Make sure he interviews to show interest! In other words, go the extra mile since on paper alone he may be a question mark. </p>
<p>My son was accepted at three schools and after visiting them we know he will be happy with any of them-- it just took us awhile to make the adjustment. In retrospect, I'd have visited those sure-bet schools first and then the others afterwards. </p>
<p>Good luck to you and your son and I know with such a thoughtful parent he will be great wherever he ends up.</p>
<p>With 800CR your son ought to write some great essays. This is probably the best way to showcase his intellectual curiosity, and vocabulary.</p>
<p>I think your list needs to be bumped up a notch. Include those schools but I'd include a few reaches. Doesn't have to be ivies, who seem to be looking for the overachiever, but schools where he'd fit in better than some on your list. LACS might be good, but for my underachieving S they were off the list for other reasons ("too small" basically). </p>
<p>Determining reach/match/safety is the problem for the smart underachiever. Our (and I say our because like your S he needed and requested our assistance) strategy was to apply to a good # of schools, very safety-heavy list just in case, expecting who knows what. And that's basically what he got. For instance, he was waitlisted at NYU and Case, accepted to JHU and CMU (went there).</p>
<p>My son had a similar profile--he is at the University of Denver and loves it there. It is a very good school for late bloomers. Very small classes, very accessible professors, fabulous opportunities for students. The bonus is that Denver is a great city</p>
<p>You might want to look into 3-2 programs, where the initial school has a higher acceptance rate than the second school. For example, Denison has a 3-2 with Duke for Environmental Science. Columbia has many 3-2 arrangements - Barack Obama went to Occidental and then Columbia on a 3-2. It will give your son a chance to mature and also explore a liberal arts education before going on to the tougher school.</p>
<p>Not to be too much a shill for Dave Berry but you might think about the "stats evaluation" product this site offers. We used it and Dave did a great job. Detailed. Thorough. Insightful. Cheap at twice the price. I'm a big fan. Like many other things in life, you get in what you put out. If S works hard on the very detailed questionnaire, and submits what they require you'll be impressed with what you get back. At least we were. Good luck.</p>
<p>I like momrath's post and some things from the posts that follow. Ticklemepink could have been more politic but what they said was important to hear. I, too, think there are some opportunities that need to be explored. </p>
<p>OP, these are exciting times. Y'all have a lot to work with here. Stop concentrating on the negative. Not all who are being "critical" are "criticizing" if you catch my drift. </p>
<p>Y'all are burning daylight. Get your mind right and get to work. ;)</p>
<p>DS2 will probably also have similar stats, though I wouldn't call him an underachiever. He's at a VERY tough IB program and is working pretty much at capacity, esp. since there are some learning issues the school refuses to acknowledge. He's leaning towards smaller universities and LACs, though he rattled off a list this weekend that could mean Slow, Painful Torture by Waitlist. On the other hand -- those schools shouldn't be out of his reach -- it's just that admissions are unpredictable and he may have to apply to more schools than he thinks. Also plays football and would like to do so in college, though he knows he is probably not recruitable. (i.e., he would be happy to attend a D-III and actually play.) A 2200-ish SAT from a football player may be attractive. :) </p>
<p>He's a very mature, reponsible young man, interested in a wide variety of things. He's very much a team player -- not generally the big cheese, but the one who cheers everyone on and makes things happen. My thinking is that his recs will need to be from people who can speak to that side of him.</p>
<p>I haven't seen 1 "under achieving" kid mentioned in this thread. I've seen kids not meeting certain expectations by parents. Sorry, but not every kid can have a 4.0gpa; ranked in the top 10; taking 4 AP classes every semester; and get into their "parent's" dream school.</p>
<p>The question that should be asked is; "What do the kids have to say?" Are they taking the classes they want to or the ones their parents want them to? Are they honestly trying to do well or doing it to keep their parents off their butt? Are the colleges they are interested in, their choices or their Parent's choices? Are parents instilling self motivation so the kid builds goals and dreams or are the kids fulfilling their parent's goals and dreams.</p>
<p>Look, we all want the best for our kids. We'd love to send them to the "Best" school available and have them achieve the highest that their potential has to offer. After all, giving our kids "Choices" is what it's all about. If they graduate college and decides to be a manager at Burger King, then encourage them to be the best. As long as it's their choice and they had options. Working at Burger King because you have no other choices is a different story. The point is; it's your kids who are doing all the work, not you. We assume that because this is a college site for parents that everyone who posts here has a kid worthy of an Ivy league school. Sometimes that's just not true. </p>
<p>There's nothing wrong with helping your kid get into the best college that "they want" and that you can afford. Especially if they want your help. That's great. But the original message of this thread is that a kid is an under achiever. The question is; "Who Says they are an under achiever?"</p>
<p>Would you and your son consider a smaller school? We had a son with a similar profile and my husband made the observation that a kid who wasn't a self-starter (or very disciplined) wouldd probably never leave his room in a big university.</p>
<p>You know, the kind of thing like if a professor only had office hours one afternoon a week, the kid might not organize his time to get over there. We encouraged our son to look at small liberal arts colleges and it was absolutely the right choice. On a smaller campus with more intimate contact with professors, he felt connected right away. He didn't have to take much initiative and very quickly had good relationships with teachers who inspired him.</p>
<p>The biggest problem you're up against is the strength of his transcript. We live in a competitive school district in a highly-ranked suburb of an East Coast city. Our son had 1500 board scores with a 3.4 in honors courses. Ranked in the top 40% percentile of his class. His teachers and guidance counselor told us their recommendations said the same thing - that he was a very bright kid who didn't do his work. </p>
<p>Most colleges don't want (or need) to accept students based on promise or potential. Our oldest son was in one of the top 5 liberal arts colleges and the director of admissions there told us that they view the high school transcript as the best predictor of success. Kids who already know how to study and organize their time in high school do the best.</p>
<p>I completely get the logic but that doesn't help kids like yours. Our son applied to some schools outside the typical Northeastern group and that was in his favor. Although he didn't opt for this, I think a gap year can do wonders for underachievers. Some of them are just late bloomers and the extra year of real world experience gives them a chance to gain confidence and learn more problem solving before they start college.</p>
<p>We have three kids who are college age and I haven't yet met an administrator who didn't love gap years. Another year of maturation for that 18 year old brain gives the colleges a more settled student. Just a thought.</p>
<p>Thank you for fabulous suggestions. Some great schools were suggested that werent even on my radar. And I got great advice on building our sons list with a particular strategy. I thought the idea of the stats evaluation was intriguing. Our son has done various filtering programs, but never with any evaluation of those selections.
I had to chuckle when the parent related about her (his?) son who only wanted an urban school and ended up in ..was it Vermont?! My own son vacillates on his deal breakerof a city school when he learns of a less than urban school with some hook that intrigues him! Because of this thread we will consider a gap year, look more closely at LACs, investigate 3-2 programs, and try to amplify and focus his ECs.
To those of you who emailed me and PMd me because they could relate, thank you. Truly from the bottom of my heart. Not everyone can relate to this particular situation. There are many scenarios offered on this site which are certainly not in my paradigm. I know from the kind and thoughtful responses that many of you tendered, I am not the only one who has these or similar circumstances.
For those of you who were offended by the term underachiever, I apologize. Many delicately offered kinder and admittedly more appropriate terminology. To the rest of you may I respectfully remind you that while you pontificate in the anonymity of cyberspace, and offer unfounded speculation, on the other end is an imperfect human being just trying to do the best for her kid. If I can be so indelicate Mind your manners. Be nice.
Peace. Out.</p>
<p>Late Achiever I believe is a good moniker for your son's record. Boys often (usually) take longer than girls to get serious about gpa. So your son is probably the norm more than exception.</p>
<p>They types of colleges you have listed do put a lot of weight on upward momentum, because the have the time to look at individual applications and spot trends. Note that a steady 3.5 is very different from a 3.5 comprised of 3.2 -> 3.4 -> 3.8 F,S,J years as a student progresses. In the latter I would expect the next number in the sequence to be 4.0. Think forward!</p>
<p>That progression combined with great test scores bodes will for your Son to be admitted to a Top 100 or even a top 50 program as a reach.</p>
<p>I'm also having a problem with S2 who is a junior. Freshman year he was only in one honors class and had a very good year. They bumped him up to all honors sophomore year and his GPA dropped even though he worked very hard. He had some trouble with math and received tutoring, etc. I told him he could drop back down, but he said that he would rather learn something and have lower grades, than just get great grades and not learn as much. I think that is a very good philosophy and one that will serve him well in life, but as a junior, he is still struggling in math and physics. If schools only look at unweighted GPA, he is going to have some difficulty. He will not take SAT until May, but PSAT was good. Am I wrong to assume that if he would not have taken so many honors courses and thus maintained a higher GPA, the process next year would be less difficult?</p>
<p>Schools that take the time to evaluate each applicant thoroughly (meaning at least ten minutes with the file) will rate a student with 3.5 gpa in demanding classes ahead of a 3.9 gpa in regular courses. I've read a few admissions books to come to this conclusion, as well as common sense.</p>
<p>I agree your son's philosophy of pushing himself bodes well for his future -- and with some adcoms.</p>