<p>samiamy, please take the advice of the parents on this thread to heart. Tell a teacher. I'm not a parent, but I agree with what they're saying. The best thing to do is to let a teacher know. Be direct and specific about when she cheats and how she cheats and how you guys know. Also be calm, just report the facts and keep emotion out of it.</p>
<p>Better for the cheater to learn now about why cheating is a bad idea than to have the lesson brought home to her in college.</p>
<p>To the OP, you've heard the consensus here is not to keep it inside anymore, and to use the power of the group to keep youself from being singled out for reprisal. When you first wrote, the others were ready to sign something together. Would they be willing to GO together to the GC? If not, go to the GC yourself and express that others are ready to sign (or bring a signed note) that this is happening.</p>
<p>It is not fair to you or the others. Bosh to the other girl; life will sort out her future, but you should care about your future and that of those who are working hard and honestly.</p>
<p>The reason you feel confused is that she has broken a "social compact." You'll understand it better once you read John Locke, but there are agreements and understandings among people that keep things civilized. Her violation of the social compact here upsets the trust that all hold dear in an academic setting. Her snickering is upsetting because it shows she realizes she can continue ALTHOUGH she knows people know (best friend's already alerted her). Truly upsetting.</p>
<p>I thought maybe if you understood your feelings a bit, and that they have rational basis, you might feel ready to blow the whistle now. The other parents are right to say she's setting the curve and hurting you. It's also true that karma will sort out her fate in the future, but I wouldn't stop with that.
You all have futures.</p>
<p>If you are not the type to blow a whistle, perhaps there's another in your group and you could be his "deputy." I know my S-2 was always a "#2 guy" or he said "the deputy, not the sheriff" socially. Your best power is that there's a group of kids affected and concerned, ready to act, just needing to know HOW to act.</p>
<p>I wasn't sure about the business of mom telling a teacher=friend at a social occasion. There are ethics involved and frankly, I'm not sure what a teacher can do with information gained outside of a school building. I just don't know.
But students approaching or emailing a GC or another teacher inside the building is more direct and respected. </p>
<p>What the mom could do is ask the teacher, at a social setting, "If kids were aware of rampant cheating, what is the procedure for them to follow at the school?" That is also a way for YOU (or your friend/s) to open up a conversation with your GC or favorite teacher whom you trust. Begin it as a "what if" and when you know the PROCEDURE, follow it.</p>
<p>I don't think you can stomach this continuing through the school year in all these AP classes. Did you get asked by the others to write onto CC? If so, they look at you as the leader. Just be sure they won't back away.</p>
<p>All you have to do is tell a GC or responsible teacher. I absolutely believe that teacher will tell the naiive AP teachers to start watching. THe one about her putting notes under her exam (out of teachers' view) would be easily seen if the teacher only walked the room, not stayed at her desk, during the exam.
They'll hawk for her and she'll be discovered, just give it time. OR, a teacher will pull her over quietly and tell her to desist or she's about to be discovered.
That's fine too; you don't want to ruin her, just get the cheating to stop.</p>
<p>I believe that you make your own karma -- tell the teacher or your GC.</p>
<p>You've gotten some good advice. I just wanted to remind you that getting caught could be the best thing that ever happened to this girl. I'm thinking about the huge group of students kicked out of a top 20 MBA program last year for cheating. For most of them, their companies were paying the tuition - can you say, "Goodbye MBA" AND "Goodbye Career" in one fell swoop? I'll bet those guys would have been thankful if they'd been caught in high school and learned a lesson before it cost them their careers.</p>
<p>Huguenot Mom</p>
<p>^^yes, better early than never </p>
<p>It's true, if she gets caught now she actually can turnaround and fix things up before h.s. ends. It will help if people are also forgiving once she's found out. There actually is no need to ostracize her socially. Figure she made a huge mistake, but it has academic, not social, implications among you in the group.</p>
<p>If you handle it correctly, there would be no need to discuss it socially, ever.</p>
<p>That's another agreement you could make among your peers, not to talk about this afterwards. That would be amazing and you'd be doing better than most adults.</p>
<p>You sound like a very good crowd of people, too. </p>
<p>If you intend to turn her in academically without hurting her socially, you might be more willing to step forward academically. That was my thought here.</p>
<p>I'm working on a project with a trusted teacher this afternoon, will be with her for about 3 hours so think I have plenty of time to bring this up as a what if scenario, if I get enough nerve up :)
The other kids say they are willing, think if I do this will speak hypothetically to the teacher above first, see what she says.</p>
<p>Just be straight up with the teacher- and say, you don't want to get her in trouble, you don't want to make a huge deal, but if the teachers were aware that others are talking and she shares how she cheats, that they will be more watchful, and the girl will either get caught or stop....</p>
<p>Repeating (and perhaps it's a different advuce from CGM): You've finally gotten the nerve up to discuss this as a "what if" with a trusted teacher. Do that much today. See where it leads. You can't go wrong to ask that way. ONe step at a time.</p>
<p>I would give slightly different advice. Talk to the teacher...but don't let everyone know you have. </p>
<p>Way back in high school, there was a kid in my Latin class who cheated. We were graded on a curve. Two As were usually given out--and I ALWAYS got one. When he began cheating, he got the other. Same sort of thing...he was using cheat sheets. After a few weeks, other kids started cheating too because it was hurting their grades. At that point, I told the teacher. </p>
<p>I knew that nobody would think of me as the "snitch" because I wasn't getting hurt --still had my A. I told her other people were cheating now, but didn't tell who, but that the # was growing over time. </p>
<p>During the next test, the teacher walked to the back of the room during the test--something she'd never done before. The cheat sheet was clearly visible. She said not a word to him during the test, but stopped him on the way out. He wasn't surprised, since he knew the cheat sheet was visible from the back of the classroom. </p>
<p>She called in his parents and explained what he had done. To their credit, they were really, really upset with them. He was grounded. </p>
<p>Nobody in that class knew I turned him in. Nobody knew that she knew he had cheated on earlier tests. She just gave him a zero for the test, which gave him a D for that six weeks. But that was the end of the cheating in that class. </p>
<p>Don't let the word out that you've talked to the teacher because if the gir gets wind of it--and she probably will--she'll stop cheating or be more discrete about it. It's best if a teacher catches her red-handed.</p>
<p>Samimamy - As an earlier poster pointed out, the girl is shameless. As for "dropping a dime" I hardly think it will work out in your favor, considering that it will make all the teachers look REALLY BAD for having ignored the cheater all this time. (You did say she was brazen in her cheating, right?) I believe in karma also, but sometimes karma needs a little push. The next time Brazen Girl is doing her thing on a test, you (as the person right sitting right next to her) might start squirming around and looking over at her work. When the teacher says "What's up Sammy?" you can honestly respond "Well Brazen Girl has the formula writen on her wrist that I need to answer question #3." Good luck with this, and try to remember that you're practicing for adult life where you'll meet far too many people willing to cheat the system for their own benefit.</p>
<p>sam...how did it go?</p>
<p>Okay, well I suppose.</p>
<p>The teacher I spoke to was great didn't push me into saying who, my best friend was with me and we both spoke to her about it . She told me that she had a senior class few years ago, that it was rampant, and she took em all down one by one. They did not pass the class, writing can be so subjective she said, so she also said don't think once it is known it will be allowed in any shape or form. </p>
<p>Now this teacher I spoke to was not my teacher now, but an teacher from previous years. I wanted an opinion of how I should deal with this. This teacher I spoke to is one I really trust and respect her judgement. She said if it is bothering me and the other kids that don't cheat, then we really should bring it to the teacher in which this is occuring. She said she knows this teacher well, and will not take this lightly, in fact quite severly. She said she knows some of the teachers have their suspicions and that this girl is not the only one on the radar, that it is a group of them. I did not expect that and honestly, I now feel I have been in a false environment, that sort of disgusts me. Seems there is quite a few of em. Maybe this is where the power of teacher recomendations come into play and the integrity of a student even if they have never been caught in the act? </p>
<p>The class which this is occuring the teacher will be out tomorrow, so we are going to her on Monday. </p>
<p>Honor Society inductions are the week after next, guess whose name is on it? Oh what a joke.</p>
<p>While this isn't your place to teach the student this lesson, do think about what the long-term consequences are for this girl. If she continues to get outstanding grades, and gets into a very selective college, how will she function? She will be amongst students who have the intelligence that she doesn't, and probably fail miserably. Like I said, this is not your responsibility, but perhaps it presents a different motivation for reporting her.</p>
<p>Good luck on Monday. I think I speak with other parents to say we'll be thinking about your situation, and hope you report back. Many of us have thought about or seen cheating scenarios when our kids were in h.s., so we understand it's not easy but important to address. </p>
<p>Keep in mind that you're not alone, and have the agreement of your school system behind you that honest academic effort is the name of the game. At the moment, they don't know precisely that someone has violated it. Why else does everyone put in so much effort--the lesson plans, the tests, the studying, the grading. The teachers really want things to be honest. Most students are, because intuitively they know (and have been taught) they will find their right level if they show their true work. </p>
<p>The joy of a student who gets back an A-minus is tremendous if that was a studied-for A-minus. The cheated A-minus has a hollow ring and makes that person cynical, indeed. It's a character thing. </p>
<p>I'm recalling my S-2, who did great in his AP courses in humanities but struggled mightily in regular Math classes. He celebrated when he turned his first-term midterm Math F's into C's (needed tutoring) and then moved that grade up with great effort, on a nightly basis, to B-minus. He was proud of that grade, along with the higher grades in the AP strength areas. We celebrated them equally. He never made high honor roll because of his GPA, settling for "merit roll" and inched up to "honor roll" throughout high school while his friends had high honor roll and NHS. But we knew his story and were proud of him. More importantly, he was proudly true to himself. He's very happy in college now, in a specialized writing major that only requires two Math general classes as a freshman. There, he struggled for his C, but passed. He felt the effort, the burn as the athletes say, and now he'll learn something from CompSci but that's it for him for math. He continues to excel in the Humanities. On with life! It doesn't have to be straight-A to have a promising future. ONe just has to find one's true level, and swim THERE. YOu said this schoolmate was formerly in regular classes but is now in AP's, which makes me wonder if she's being pressured from home somehow...ah well, even so, you need to end the situation by reporting it. I'm glad you are finding the courage; it's best for all, including her, although she'll spit when it happens. </p>
<p>Honesty gets you where you can function properly. That's what others are saying about this girl...if she cheats her way into something she can't sustain, she'll crash and burn in college, so in a way, you're doing her and her family a favor to push the issue now, while it's still remediable. </p>
<p>I think it's worth a reflection on parents who insist on A's that they could be
fostering a temptation to cheat...?</p>
<p>Anyways, your post has been on my mind. I want to re-emphasize not broiling this girl socially--THAT would be cruel and unkind. Keep it academic.</p>
<p>Many life lessons here, especially about reaching out and finding out a group of support, rather than feeling you have to be "an army of one."</p>