Parents: Out-Processing from USAFA is NOT uncommon the first year

Colleges and Universities A-Z Air Force Academy - Colorado Springs
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<p>First off, congratulations to all the new cadets and families that have supported them along the way. Just getting off the bus on A Day is a feat in it self. Making it through Basic is another mile stone.<br>
I am the parent of a Prior 2010 cadet. My son arrived on the Hill in June 2006. He was out-processed and home by the end of April 2007. You have heard the old saying…“there is a reason for everything” and “when one door is closed, another one opens”. </p>

<p>Success in life is more than whether your cadet graduates from the USAFA. I won’t go into detail with our son’s experience. The bottom line is, he was just not ready for that enviorment. He arrived a 17 year old boy and returned a defeated man. He matured a great deal from his experience and he has gone on to graduate from college early. He re-enlisted in a different branch of the service and is leaving for Iraq Sept. 1st. His passion to serve his country is stronger than ever. </p>

<p>If you find yourself gripped with uncertainty, I offer you advice from a parent that has lived it. If your cadet does arrive home for one reason or another, they will need time to decompress. Unless you have been a cadet at a Service Academy or served in the Armed Forces, you truely don’t know what they have endured. They may be very angry (at the system OR themself). Urge them to dust themself off and set new goals. They need you to love them unconditionally!!! Whether they make a bad decision or cannot handle the academic/physical/mental demands, they need your support without passing judgement. The should’a, could’a, would’a logic or well meaning advice only goes so far. Your cadet is now an adult. They have to own each decision and action from this day forward. </p>

<p>On the financial aid side of the equation, there was a silver lining. Since our son had served “active duty” at a Service Academy for 10 months, he was considered an INDEPENDENT STUDENT on the FAFSA. This meant that only his income was considered when qualifying for college financial aid. When filing the FAFSA-the parent’s income was not calculated in the EFC decision. On the other hand, we were still able to claim our son as a DEPENDANT on our tax returns for 2006 and 2007. You may be able to claim your prior cadet for more than two years as long as they remain a full time student AND do not re-enlist in the service. (Our son was no longer considered our dependant for tax purposes after he had re-enlisted (1/2008) and we did not support him for more than 6 months of the year. </p>

<p>My heart felt good wishes go out to all of you! If you find yourself faced with a cadet out-processing, you can private message me. I have held the hands of many parents just like me. Our home is draped with a Service Star Banner, just like other parents of the class of 2010. They all serve our country, no matter how they got there.</p>

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<p>What a heart touching story.</p>

<p>I do agree that it could be very hard on the cadet who for whatever reason will leave the AFA without being commissioned. </p>

<p>As a military wife, and now a Mom of an AFROTC cadet, I get it when you say they need to decompress. We love our family and want to take away the pain, but hovering over the loved one can do more harm than good. Let them have their space and time, otherwise you will add an additional stress/burden upon them. In other words they will also spend time worrying about how you are feeling. All you need to do is say one time, “when you are ready to talk we are here to listen”, and then leave it alone. Give them their time to lick their wounds.</p>

<p>I also say this because during their military career they will also feel the sting of something. It could be not getting UPT, washing out of UPT, not getting in residence schools, etc. It took me many yrs to realize the best thing I could do for Bullet was to give him space, but let him know I was the soft landing spot.</p>

<p>Additionally, I think there is a part of the story that people should pay attention to…not every cadet is meant to be a cadet. The allure and illusion of the AFA is a big draw, but the reality of what they will endure over 4 yrs is not easy.</p>

<p>Here’s our DS’s story.</p>

<p>Throughout his hs career up to May of his jr yr., it was Notre Dame, Notre Dame, Notre Dame as an AFROTC cadet. May he filled out the pcq and all of the sudden it was AFA, AFA, AFA. Sept. it was AFA, UMDCP, Notre Dame, and 2 others. Jan. rolled around, he had 5 noms to the AFA, and received the BFE from UMDCP for Scholars Govt and Politics with merit money and a ROTC scholarship. 3 days later we took him to UMDCP, met the det and by the end of the day we were at the Bursars office giving a deposit. He pulled his packet before the board closed for candidates, and the mass mailing.</p>

<p>During that day we sat down with him and had a very long conversation about why AFA or why UMD. We said to him if we could guarantee becoming a pilot and money was no issue where would you go? He said UMDCP. We said if we couldn’t guarantee being a pilot where would you go? UMDCP was his answer. He is a military child and his father reminded him that 4 yrs from now a lot can happen, and there is no guarantee of anything, except you will owe 5 yrs when you get commissioned. He also reminded him that even as a pilot he will be an officer first. Attending the AFA for only the guarantee of UPT, in our opinion was not a strong enough reason. We wanted him to say I WANT TO BE COMMISSIONED AS AN AFA GRAD. </p>

<p>I take a lot of heat for this opinion, and I will never back down from this position. Without a doubt the SA’s are the best institutions if you want a military education. Nobody can ever deny that, but it can be very hard on a cadet who only wants it for their career goal. For our DS the scholars program meant interning on Capitol Hill for the Senate. This was a huge carrot in his face because govt and politics is his academic love, he scored a 720 on M, but absolutely hates it. We showed him the req. curriculum at the AFA, and 4 yrs of Math was not appeasing to him. We, as parents, knew he could handle it, but we wondered if he would walk away with great memories or if he was going there to make us proud. If it was the latter, we also wondered if he would make it through. Again their motivation needs to be there for their personal desires, not anything less.</p>

<p>Every SA cadet comes with an insane resume for 17-18 yr olds., we just happen to forget they are still just kids. They all have been leaders within their community for so long that we take their success for granted.</p>

<p>I, too wish all of the parents every good hope and wish for not only the cadets, but our new candidates, that their dreams come true.</p>

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<p>Momof3boyz, found your above thread when googling “outprocessing USAFA” I never in a million years thought I’d be looking for this type of info, but here we go. DS is a C3C, says he has been doing a lot of thinking about the future and just does not feel like the military is right for him. Says he can’t imagine having no freedom to make decisions for himself for at least the next 7 years. Feels like he made the wrong decision in selecting the academy instead of a civilian school. It’s not that he even hates it or anything, there are parts he has enjoyed and admits he has learned so many things, but just doesn’t feel it is the place for him. He is now very worried that he is screwed because last years GPA is only a 2.6, fears he will have difficulty even getting into a good school let alone get any help with scholarship money. I was very glad at least to read in your post that he can be considered an independent, so maybe will be eligible for some financial aid. How much of a long drawn out process is outprocessing? He is afraid to start the process before the end of the semester, fearing that they will not let him complete the semester and losing those credits, but if he doesn’t even start outprocessing until after finals, everyone will be gone for the holidays and there doesn’t seem any way he could start ttransfer for the spring semester. My thought was to encourage him to stay the rest of the year, but he fears it would be another semester of less than stellar grades and would be digging himself even further into a hole. Anyone have any advice on the smoothest way to make the transition work? Was you son able to transfer some credits? Sounds like he is doing well now, so I do feel some reassurance that there is like after the academy.</p>

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<p>Mog,</p>

<p>I know this is a hard time for you, and I am sure he will end up just fine. As a parent, heed what is he saying. He is saying I want our ASAP. The credits mean nothing.</p>

<p>Worse case scenario he goes to the CC school at home, and transfers next yr in the fall.</p>

<p>Every college has their own regs on the courses they will accept for transfer, traditionally they will tie it to a certain grade. They also may tie it to his major. For example, the AFA is an engineering school, if he now decides to major in French History, he might lose a lot of his credits.</p>

<p>One thing to remember is that many health insurance policies require the child to be enrolled in school to retain their coverage, so make sure he at least enrolls in the CC near you to keep him covered.</p>

<p>I understand the thought of being emancipated for FA, but that means he can’t be on your health insurance either.</p>

<p>Additionally some schools will require a separate address for a specific amount of time from the parents to be deemed emancipated. Very common for state universities because they know IS and OOS can differentiate 15K a yr in tuition.</p>

<p>Best of luck.</p>

<p>I don’t know if you know of this site, put try your question over there because it really is a service academy site, and not a college site.</p>

<p>[United</a> States of America Service Academy Forums - Powered by vBulletin](<a href=“http://www.serviceacademyforums.com%5DUnited”>http://www.serviceacademyforums.com)</p>

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<p>I’ll throw my two cents in: Did you hear about any of these issues from your son last year or during Summer break? If not, I’d insist that he stay until the end of the year and then decide. I’ve heard about people regretting that they didn’t stick it out at a SA, but never anyone that was sorry they did. </p>

<p>As far as your son “having no freedom to make decisions for himself for at least the next 7 years”, let me quote Bob Dylan: “You’re gonna have to serve somebody”. You might remind him that we ALL have to work for somebody and there are IMHO worse task masters than the military. </p>

<p>My advice is probably worth less than two cents and is reflective of my “suck-it-up and don’t quit” parenting style. Good luck to you and your son.</p>

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<p>

No, it does not. Dependency rules for FAFSA, health insurance and the IRS are all different.
If your son separates voluntarily he will qualify to be an “independent” for FAFSA purposes, which will impact his Federal aid only. This is a Federal rule. Colleges can still ask for a parents’ income</p>

<p>He can arrange his separation so that he separates right after Christmas leave. He will return to the academy and begin the official separation process. If he has a college to attend second semester he might still make it. He needs to check the timing specifics carefully - mostly if they choose to separate in the middle of the semster they don’t finish. These are questions he needs to ask.
He definitely should be encouraged to stay through the semester, esp if he will get a C+ or greater in his classes. Colleges have different rules but generally credits below a C will not transfer. His gpa will start over at his new college.<br>
Credits from Service Academies normally transfer very well. The problem he will likely encounter are the specific requirements from his major at his new school and their gen ed requirements.</p>

<p>You might want to ask him how serious he is, even if you don’t want to know the answer. He may have already begun applying to colleges. Frankly, this is his second year, if he wants to leave he probably will - meaning as a parent you have less influence than if he was a 4 deg.
Good luck to you and him.</p>

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<p>Ok my C4 left last June after a year. A couple of things, it does not take long to outprocess(maybe 4 days?), they have to run around and get a bunch of signatures, pack etc…</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Your son will be different, I wish they had some counseling services for post Academy life. He seemed very mature is some aspects, and more childish in others. It took about 8 weeks to get him where he was back to himself.</p></li>
<li><p>My son played a sport so he knew he was going to be home in the fall since he could not play immediately. He is taking classes at a community college - pell grant has paid for all his classes, books and given him about $600 in spending money. Your son will be an independent on FAFSA and will qualify - he will look very poor on paper like our son did. As for insurance, we did not have any problems as long as he was enrolled in a school.</p></li>
<li><p>My son had a 2.3 GPA - he has 3 full ride offers from very prestigious private universities/colleges one of them is even transferring his D in Chemistry. Although your son is not qualified for the GI Bill or Yellow ribbon program, many private schools want to have Veteran students - it makes them look more diverse. Your son will be an official Veteran with an honorable discharge. My son has had great luck with the private schools, public is offering money but not full rides.</p></li>
<li><p>It will take a while but you will start to hear more reasons why your child left after they get home and are more into a groove. We have learned a lot more about his year at the Academy in the last month or 2 and have a better understanding of “I don’t want to be here” actually means.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>JAM, </p>

<p>When I said FA, it was tied to health insurance. It is important to understand if your child emancipates themselves for a tax purpose, your health insurance is not required to carry them, since they are no longer deemed a dependent. I know our policy would not cover our child if we could not declare him as a dependent on the 1040. If he marks on his 1040 that he is not a dependent he is emancipated and we could not cover him. Our policy is very clear…23 and under in school as a dependent or until emancipated. If he even opted as a retiree child at the age of 19 to file a 1040 and not able to be claimed as a dependent. It would be all over for his Tri-Care coverage. The military would not cover him.</p>

<p>Don’t assume that by emancipating them for FA, your insurance policy will keep them. Check the insurance fine print.</p>

9

<p>But… health insurance depends on the employer. Many companies will cover them as long as they are in college and don’t care about IRS dependency. It depends on the company’s policy. We agree on this.<br>
Even if the child was taken off the insurance while at the Academy, once they move home and attend college they are most likely a ‘dependent’ again and can go back on the insurance.
Dependency for FAFSA - not tied to IRS dependency rules at all. The IRS has very strict rules about calculating who one can claim as a dependent as does FAFSA and they do not always mesh.</p>

<p>The important thing to note is that FAFSA may deem them ‘independent’ even though they might be claimed by you on your taxes. This just means that parental income is not considered in filing for Federal Financial aid.</p>

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<p>with the new Obamacare, insurance companies have to cover children on parents policies until they are 26 and it does not depend on if they are in school or not.</p>

<p>While I agree that it is different for each insurance company. I think you are going to find, for now at least, that most will cover the child no matter what for fear of being outside the rules.</p>

<p>I recently called our carrier, BCBS to find out what I needed to send them for my D who just turned 19. They said absolutely nothing. She is our D and under 26, she is covered.</p>

<p>A friend of mine with boys older than mine had two that recently graduated from school and have been having trouble finding jobs. They had been taken off the policy because they were over 23 but with the new rules, they are now back on the policy and they are not in school, nor do their parents claim them as dependents on the 1040.</p>

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<p>Thanks so much for the information and words of encouragement and support. No firm decision made yet, he is still thinking it over but did send an application in to a school and has requested his transcript be sent to the other school. I’m at peace with whatever he decides, I have assured him that his Dad and I are behind him 100%. I will keep you all posted. If anyone has any additional advice, something “you wish you had known”, anything you feel is vital for a cadet to do/know during this process please share either in the forum here or I’d welcome a PM. Thanks again and best wishes to all of you and your cadets past, present and future!</p>

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<p>If you son does not want to be in the military, he should not be at USAFA. I don’t mean to be harsh saying that, but it is true. USAFA is built on a military structure. Not everyone can live that way. </p>

<p>The big question in my mind is, does he dislike the military lifestyle or living at USAFA. There are differences. Has he discussed his feelings/plans with others? A lot of permanent party are very willing to sit down and chat about life.</p>

<p>In the end, the decision is his, and he has to be comfortable with it. The “right answer” depends upon the person. I know people who couldn’t stand the academy and left for civilian life. I know people who almost immediately joined ROTC at another school. I know people who are trying to commission through the Guard, 2 years after leaving. I also know people who stayed, despite some doubts. Almost all of them made a good decision for themselves.</p>

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<p>That’s a really good point. Life at USAFA is not like life in the military anywhere else and isn’t representative of what his military experience would be like after graduation. He may or may not fully understand that difference just yet.</p>

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<p>MOG, what did your child do: stay at USAFA or transfer?</p>

<p>When our sons were home on breaks, we always made sure we took a few minutes to talk about how things were going, their goals, etc. And, we always reminded them that we could always make a civ college work for them too. We talked to each son before their 2* year just to make sure. No pressure, but really let them know their responsiblities and options, the goods and the bads. </p>

<p>Neither of my guys even considered leaving USAFA, since they seem to be a good fit, but their friend, out of the blue, just said - I’m Done - last summer. Friend is at a local state U now and doing well, but truthfully, is now bored silly. Too long at a Service Academy, I think.</p>

<p>Anyway, good luck to your child, Mog.</p>

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<p>I haven’t checked in lately to notice that my original post has had activity. Now that new cadets have had a taste of Academy life, there may be many more cadets and/or parents dealing with the thought of “out-processing”. </p>

<p>bulletandpima, thanks for adding great insight from another angle. </p>

<p>Mog, Since my DS left before the end of his second semester exams, he did not earn any credits for second semester. He applied to a large State University that had offered him admission after High School even with a lower GPA than your son. We met with an Admissions Counselor with hopes of getting him enrolled for Summer Quarter. They already had his HS transcripts and Standardized test scores. Our DS hand delivered an official transcript (during Out-processing, cadets will receive at least four Transcripts in sealed envelopes). Once he met face to face with an Admissions Counselor, he explained why he left the AFA. She instructed him to write an explaination to the Admissions Committee, detailing why he did not continue to excell at the AFA and state how he planned to move forward after his Academy experience. DS was very specific about the daily schedule, mandatory “lights out”, academics, and non academic demands on cadets (physical fitness and squadron duties). He even gave an example about having to memorize the UPC codes on condiments at dining tables inorder to earn the privilege of consuming them. </p>

<p>In addition, my DS did request letters of recommendation from instructors in classes he excelled in. This could certainly help your son IF he chooses to resign. </p>

<p>The State University granted my son admission but he was placed on Academic Probation his first Quarter. He also was given college credit for HS Advanced Placement scores that the Academy does not permit. He was given additional credit for Political Science and physical education due to the amount of training required at the Academy. It is hard to believe my DS was still able to graduate ahead of schedule with a degree in Political Science.<br>

  • He attended college (Quarter) Summer 07’, Fall 07’, Winter 08’, Spring 08’, Summer 08’, Fall 08’, Winter 09’ --Withdrew Spring 09’ & Summer 09’ for Army Basic Training and Advanced Individual Training – returned for Fall 09’ and graduated after his Winter 10’ classes. </p>

<p>My DS still had a desire to serve in the Military. He may not be a Second Lt but he will be a NCO with his next promotion. He cannot control when that comes. In the mean time, he is still a Soldier and we are just as proud! </p>

<p>Hang in there and I encourage your to have him read this post.</p>

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<p>Mom.</p>

<p>One of the hardest things in this world is to feel helpless in regards to our kids. One of the best things in this world is to see them find their way without our help.</p>

<p>I have watched Bullet over the yrs and I will say fiscally it is hard for an enlisted member, BUT, without a doubt they are the true backbone of the military. Any officer worth their weight in salt knows that they could not perform the mission without the NCOs. </p>

<p>You should be just as proud. You should cheer him on from the rooftops. Not only because as NCO will he groom, and mentor the future backbone of the AF, but as a person he was true to himself. As a parent that is all we ever want for our kids. We want them to find the place where they are happy with THEIR decision.</p>

<p>If someday he decides to re-enter the “officer” world, he will be one that gets great respect, because he came up the ranks. He will understand the dynamics from both sides of the table. </p>

<p>The military is not as different as some people want to believe when it comes to the “working” world. Officers and Enlisted track differently, not only in positions, but also in aspects like homesteading. They can get tunnel vision and lose sight only placing priority on what impacts them. An Enlisted member who goes into the Officer world brings new insight. They can be the voice of realism for both sides.</p>

<p>I also hope that future cadets and candidates read this thread. It really is important to ask ***WHY? ***. It is also important to understand that we all get you are 17/18. You may think you know what you want, but it is fine and dandy to say, I don’t know! Candidates, you may hate me for saying this, because you believe at this age you know, but you are still just a kid, it is okay to be a kid, and change your mind.</p>

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<p>And sometimes (lots of times!) changing your mind leads to even greater adventures than you thought before! :D</p>

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<p>I disagree with the above comment that its ok for kids to change their minds about their military service once they already rose their right hand. On the first day at west point my classmates and I took an oath to support and defend the constitution. If you give up prior to your commitment, then what is your word worth? Even if you dont like your decision, you must stick with it, because that was your choice. I realized very early in my time in the Army that I would spend a lot of time doing stuff I didnt want to do. But what I also realized is that I made a promise to myself to complete a difficult task. So far I have spent 5 years in the Army and 2 1/2 of those been in Iraq or Afghanistan. I have hated almost every moment I spent at west point and every minute I have been in the Army. However, when I was 18 years old I made a promise. No matter what comes in the way you can not go back on your word, or else you have lost everything.</p>

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<p>I disagree. If someone realizes they are not right for the job, they should leave. I don’t want people who are not internally committed to the service they are in.<br>
Obviously, your internal committment overcame your other opinions. Others are not so dedicated. Certainly you saw some people you would not have wanted to lead people in combat!</p>

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<p>I believe it is extremely difficult and probably unwise, to ask a 17 or 18 year old to commit to 9 years (1/2 of their life span!) or more of anything! That is why the Academies give you the 2 year look-see, with no penalty. </p>

<p>Other institutions have the escape-clause option, with religious orders coming to mind. The life change and required commitment are beyond what most people can honestly do at such a young age. </p>

<p>Ballinemt: I am sorry you are so bitter about your USMA and Army experiences. And while I do admire your perserverence, perhaps it might have been better for all had you decided at the end of yearling year to persue other opportunities. You’ve been out of West Point for five years now and I am assuming you did a “five and fly.” What are you doing now?</p>