Parents -- Stop Obsessing, Start Encouraging

Parents Forum
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<p>I've been a casual observer of this forum for a couple years now. I've made some very general observations that have always bothered me somewhat, and wanted to surface them and make others aware. </p>

<p>First off, I'm not starting this thread to attack any parent or tell them they shouldn't care where their son or daughter goes to college. I am, however, tired of reading countless parents obsessing about the 'prestige' factor of their son or daughters college selection. It's frankly not the job of the parent to step into the admissions process and influence their child's college decision based on a preconceived notion that one particular school has a higher standard of academic reputation than another University. </p>

<p>The parents job, at least in my eyes, should be to inform their child of what is financially reasonable (which schools are affordable, which are not) and then from this point onward allow their son or daughter to make any decision they so choose without influence from their parents. If that decision is a local community college, fine. If that decision is Princeton, fine (though I frankly don't value the Ivy League education over that of a standard public University). </p>

<p>I think there are a lot of parents out there, too many, who want to be able to boast of their child's potential acceptance to what they describe as 'top tier' Universities. I am from Wisconsin (as you may have summarized from my username). When I was looking at colleges and my friends were going off to University, parents that had children going to University of Wisconsin Madison would often feel the need to assert this fact to everyone they came in contact with. 'My S/D got accepted to Madison!' they'd say with a snobbish enthusiasm. </p>

<p>The reality is, though Madison may have a better academic reputation than (for sake of example) University of Wisconsin Milwaukee, a parent should take anymore pride in sending their son or daughter to Madison than they would Milwaukee, if that's where the kid wants to go. </p>

<p>I've never been one to respect Ivy League schools. I think they're overrated and often filled with snobbish elitists who simply attend them for the mere sake of proclaiming to the rest of the world that they are on track to be successful. That's all B.S. Success is relative to the individual. Success isn't attending a prestigious school, graduating law school, or getting a medical degree.</p>

<p>I am a Kinesiology major. When I tell people this I get one of two reactions. The first being -- what the heck is that? The second is a nod with a slight grin as if to insinuate that I'm simply majoring in a less prestigious degree. I'm not going to make lawyer money. I get that. But my parents are proud, perhaps even moreso, because I am choosing to enter a field that I love and am passionate about. I love fitness, I love helping people be happy with their bodies, and I find it fascinating. They're not proud because I picked a prestigious school (I didn't -- even though I was accepted to Madison). They're not proud because I'm working towards working for a big-name law-firm or graduated in the top portion of my class (I didn't -- I graduated 50th of 230). </p>

<p>They're proud because I found a school that I love and a career I'm excited about. That's all that should matter to a parent.</p>

<p>Just my two cents. </p>

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<p>It’s great that you had your career path planned at such an early age, but most 17 or 18 year olds haven’t got a clue about colleges or careers and need the guidance of loving adults to help them make good decisions. If you think handing a high school senior a budget and then dumping him in the deep end of the pool of college selection and career planning is good parenting, then please, don’t have kids. And honestly, dumping on the Ivies when you have zero idea of what it’s like to attend one just makes you sound sadly defensive about your own school. </p>

<p>As for these forums being filled with parents “obsessing” about prestige, I see nothing of the kind here. It’s mostly the naive student posters who are hung up on names, and it’s the helpful adult posters who try to set them straight on how to make wise decisions about college selection. You know, as if they were their parents…</p>

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<p>@MommaJ You completely missed the point of my post. I’m not saying set them loose, I’m saying let them go where they want and don’t tell them ‘x school is more prestigious’. A lot of parents want their kids to go to the best school they can get into and that is often based on rankings.</p>

<p>I refuse to believe that Ivy League schools better prepare you for a career then small state universities. Sure, some schools are better than others, but excuse me for not believing that having an Ivy League name on your degree warrants the extra $20,000 per year or even $1,000 per year for that matter.</p>

<p>Not everyone is looking to work at a big name company or make a million. The most successful people I know don’t even have college degrees. Success is character. It’s not money, it’s not education, and it’s not prestigious University attendance. </p>

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<p>Good thinking. My kid pretty much has her own preference of what she is going to persue after a year of debating herself on pre-med or Engineering. I took my kid to several universities she has in mind and she likes some of them. </p>

<p>My family is not rich but we can afford any of these colleges. However, I will only choose to pay for the top tier national universities or flagship. Anything less than the top tier will not worth my savings and the flagships may just be as good as them. (By top tier I mean the top 20. People have different opinions, but no matter how they swap positions of these universities in their rankings, it is always the same list.)</p>

<p>“Success is relative to the individual. Success isn’t attending a prestigious school, graduating law school, or getting a medical degree.”</p>

<p>Not where they go but It is the ‘drive’ one see in these individuals that pave them for success.</p>

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<p>I’m tired of parents believing that by sending their children to the big-name private colleges, their children are inherently more successful. The vast majority of lawyers and Ivy League grads that I’ve been in contact with are generally arrogant, elitist, and have little tolerance of viewpoints differing from their own liberalized education. Money is their motivation and they look upon themselves with smug pride for having an Ivy League degree, like that somehow makes them more successful than those with two-year technical degrees. It doesn’t. Education is not the measure of success, nor is your child’s choice of colleges.</p>

<p>If they like it, you should like it. </p>

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<p>One great thing about the Ivies and their ilk is that some of them (many? all? I’m not sure) give FA packages with no loans to students of low income. Probably all the parents who show up here already knew that :slight_smile: but that is one reason that some kids and their parents shoot for those schools. Beyond that, I agree that a student can get an equally excellent education at any number of colleges and universities and I’m sometimes uncomfortable with the posters (a minority, thank goodness) who do seemed obsessed with getting into an “elite” school. Full disclosure: I’m an Ivy alumna myself, with a D entering my alma mater this fall, but she choose it because of a pretty unbeatable combination of full aid with 0 EFC, an excellent linguistics department, and a location near home :slight_smile: . </p>

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<p>@mdcmom That’s great. You should be proud! </p>

<p>If your son or daughter wants an Ivy League, that’s fantastic. Great for them, really. I’m just saying, if they personally favor a less prestigious college, then let them go. Let them decide based on what they like, not what looks the best on resumes. </p>

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<p>I could’ve gotten into a school ranked in the Top 20 if I wanted to (Madison). Instead choose a school ranked in the 120’s on U.S News and World Report. I dropped 100 spots because I loved it, despite pressure to go to Madison. </p>

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<p>Agreed. Actually, DD’s first choice wasn’t the Ivy…it was a smaller, much less well known college. But her only shot at going there was a competitive full tuition scholarship which she didn’t win. We are very blessed that her second choice is such a great one!</p>

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<p>Good for you, BadgerState.</p>

<p>“The vast majority of lawyers and Ivy League grads that I’ve been in contact with are generally arrogant, elitist, and have little tolerance of viewpoints differing from their own liberalized education. Money is their motivation and they look upon themselves with smug pride for having an Ivy League degree,”</p>

<p>None of the many kids in my town who went(go) to top schools are arrogant. They just have a high goal set for themselves and they love where they went(go. Everyone is different. But for parents, it has to be where the kid likes and whether it worth pulling everything the parents have for that. As I said, in many cases state schools are as good.</p>

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<p>I think parents should provide info, like how strong some schools’ networks and brands are in certain industries and locales, which industries that matter and which they don’t, and what they know about different schools and alums. For instance, if a kid wants to become a dentist, I see little reason to pick anything but the cheapest option that is a fit. If he wants to pursue a major that doesn’t teach practical marketable skills, I’d want him to get a free tuition scholarship somewhere. The money will be saved in case he doesn’t make it and needs to get a Masters in something useful.</p>

<p>And telling a kid to choose a school in the top 40 is not a sound way to do things, IMO. In some industries, only the top 5 or so confer big advantages, and the dropoff is steep from there. In others, it hardly matters where you go to school.</p>

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<p>“For instance, if a kid wants to become a dentist, I see little reason to pick anything but the cheapest option that is a fit.”</p>

<p>This is true. </p>

<p>There may be parents who push their kids to choose top 40 (if you want to change 20 to 40 to not point to me :-)). For my kid, she wants to strech herself to the best she can get to. And my take is: if she did it and get into the top 20, fine we’ll pay for it. If not, go to a state school, we are fine with it too. There is nothing to brag about. I think the OP is trying to say parents want kids to go to top schools to brag about it. I want my kid to go to a school where she belongs and at the same time we are happy to pay for - not where we can brag about it.</p>

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<p>@Findmoreinfo‌:</p>

<p>Actually, it was pointed to another poster on here who had limited the list for her kids to the top 40-50. Evidently, the state flagship (which is actually very good in certain fields) was not good enough for her. She’d rather have her kid attend an expensive private that is higher ranked overall even if the major her kid chose was one the state flagship was top 5 in.</p>

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<p>Some people like going to a prestigious school, they view it as an accomplishment for the hard work they have put into their life. If it makes someone happy to tell others they go to Harvard or Stanford, who am I to dump on their decision.</p>

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<p>@Vikingboy11:</p>

<p>Sure, so long as they realize that the goal in life is to succeed in life, not just to go to a good school. Working hard, getting in to a good school, but then feeling entitled to rewards despite not being humble and working hard in the real world isn’t going to set you up well in life.</p>

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<p>First, I want to say I am with you here in general, but I think you went a bit too far on the spectrum, past that nice median. I didn’t choose the top ranked school either, though I only dropped 20 spots (30 to 50). But if I was accepted to a Top 10, unless it was a certain school, I would have taken the same drop. But, you are making sweeping statements here that I don’t think are true.</p>

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<p>Now, I agree that Ivy’s at face value can be overpriced in comparison to other options, but you are kidding yourself to say that they are equal. And no, that doesn’t mean making more always. Whether you like the people in them or not, the connections you will get can be very helpful in accomplishing your goals. Is that right? I don’t agree with it and I would guess you wouldn’t think so either. However, it doesn’t change the reality. Not all people in ivies are elitist and shallow. In fact, probably less and less are. Obviously it varies person to person, and with what it is being compared, but an Ivy is certainly worth more academically and career connection wise. That doesn’t change because an ivy would or would not fit you.</p>

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<p>I get the larger point you are making here, but this isn’t true either. You said it yourself, success is relative. We define it individually. And for many, sadly, it is money. For others, it’s knowledge. For many people, these can be their goals to get to their version of success.</p>

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<p>As far as parent involvement goes, I agree completely that too many care about prestige and try to influence their choices. I was lucky to have great parents that let me completely take over the college process, but you see SO many who aren’t given the reins to their own lives.</p>

<p>That said, some kids need more guidance than others. I knew what I wanted to do for years, but many kids don’t consider college choices or major until late in their junior year, and could use much more guidance to make sure they don’t make a mistake that can’t be reversed. We learn from mistakes and it is important to fall down here and there, but a parent has to act as a safety net, making sure their kids can get back up once they fall.</p>

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<p>@PengsPhils:</p>

<p>“I didn’t choose the top ranked school either, though I only dropped 20 spots (30 to 50).”</p>

<p>There could be no difference at those levels. In fact, depending on the areas/industries and locale you’re interested in, School #50 may even set you up better than School #30. That’s why using rankings for anything is kind of stupid.</p>

<p>“Whether you like the people in them or not, the connections you will get can be very helpful in accomplishing your goals. Is that right?”</p>

<p>Depending on the school, industry and locale, they could be very valuable, or they could be worthless.
Also, that’s why you should choose a school where you like the people, because a big part of the value of the network can be derived only from networking, and who wants to network with people that they dislike?</p>

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<p>Sorry, I should have said <em>general</em> rankings. Rankings and tiers within certain industries and locales could be useful to know, but may have to be anecdotal.</p>

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<p>@PurpleTitan‌ </p>

<p>I completely agree on the first part. I didn’t use rankings for anything more than general tiers, and I think my school is much better than many ranked above it. I was just pointing out that we both “technically” dropped in rank.</p>

<p>As far as connections go, obviously it does vary by field, but there are general trends Though yes, networking with people you dislike isn’t ideal. But if you would hate to network with the people in the school, you probably had better options. I’m not saying that connections are incredibly crucial, but, generally, there is a difference and connections should be one of many factors to consider unless you are attending school for pure academic reasons.</p>

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<p>OP, I commend you for making this post. Though my daughter is going to a top 20 school, she had a wide range of schools and I definitely encouraged it. So few students pay attention to lists like “Top Schools Jobs Recruiters Look At”. If they did, they would be surprised to find mostly public schools on the list! I’ve never understood why the students go to the Ivy League schools for undergrad. They put most of their funding towards their graduate programs and that is what they are most known for anyway. In my mind, there is literally no reason to go to Harvard College. None, whatsoever. It makes more sense to go to an affordable undergrad school and go to an ivy for graduate school.</p>