parents want a "practical major"

Parents Forum
21

<p>kfc4u, your parents seem focused on the vocational side of college where your major prepares you directly for a career field. And since they both took this approach (accounting, engineering) its what they're comfortable with and understand.</p>

<p>None of the liberal-arts majors lead directly to a career path, nor are they intended to. The reason to pick a liberal-arts major or minor is because of a strong interest in the subject, although you may be tipped to one major or another if you see a way to apply it in the future in a career.</p>

<p>Jobs are always a concern for liberal-arts majors, but the way to look at this is that preparing for a career is something that is done in addition to the major rather than being the result of the major. There are plenty of things to do in college to prepare for a career. Learning about careers by talking to alums and thru the career center resources (vocational tests, books, etc) is the first step. </p>

<p>The most important thing are internships so that you get actual exposure to the job and can explain to potential employers why you would be a good fit in the career rather than just hoping its right for you. Sample a few areas and keep your eyes open. For example in your finance job this summer talk to as many people as you can doing as many different things as you can find, so that you use this job as a way to find out about other areas too. Almost anyone would agree if you say "My name is X and I'm an intern here this summer; I was wondering if we could meet for lunch so I could learn more about your job doing Y".</p>

22

<p>Thank you all for all the wonderful advice you have given so far. I highly appreciate the insight…it’s been a great help since I will be choosing my fall quarter classes in a few days and all the other advice has helped make me think too. </p>

<p>I’m not arguing or disagreeing with my parents really, but I’m just having trouble convincing them that poli sci isn’t a dead end major. I haven’t hid my GPA from them, but when I tell them what classes I’ve been taking, all of them are seen as impractical (mostly GE’s and intro classes since I’ve only finished my freshman year). </p>

<p>I do agree that I should take some business-related courses, especially since I have some interest in international business. The problem for me is that at my college, many of them require a series of pre-requisites in economics first, and after the B- in an intro to microeconomics class that I thought was boring and difficult to grasp, I am not sure if I should take the remaining pre-reqs, especially if they might hurt my GPA since I am considering law school (law school is something practical that my parents approve of). </p>

<p>On the other hand, my parents do not approve of international business, or as a matter of fact, anything international-related. International relations (specifically the political aspect of it) to me is a strength… it’s easy for me to grasp, I’m genuinely interested in it, and my primary extracurricular activity (in high school and in college) is Model UN. But my parents don’t consider this practical in the sense that if I end up in an international-related career, I will have to travel a lot. I come from a culture where family is important and my parents want me to stay as close to home as possible. I live in suburban Los Angeles and even the prospect of interning in downtown LA is looked down upon. Eventually for a job, that would be okay, but they’d still prefer me to stay in California. My parents also do not look highly upon public service careers, which is where most poli sci majors who don’t go to law school seem to end up in, because public service careers aren’t high paying and chances are, I’d have to move across the country to DC. Consequently, they don’t look up to related nonpaid internships because the lack of pay is not worth the investment and isn’t considered a good internship. After all, the main point of college is to prepare myself for a good job, one that my parents say should be better paying than what they currently earn. </p>

<p>Finally, I understand the poli sci major does not necessarily correlate with my future job prospects, but that’s part of the problem. Poli sci majors end up in a plethora of careers, but none are guaranteed in the same fashion as engineering major ends up recruited by an engineering firm for an engineering job. And to complicate things, I’m not sure what I want to do yet… law? business? international relations? one of the plethora of poli sci major careers? (I just finished my freshman year in college testing out a variety of courses). This is my part to figure out of course, but it doesn’t convince my parents to not worry when there are many career paths available but none that I am dead set on yet or none that are guaranteed to recruit me if I decide not to go to law school. It's also not assuring to myself and it hurts my argument that I will end up okay with poli sci if I don't know what I will end up doing.</p>

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<p>To add another note, here is an article that Swat publishes & distributes to its visiting prospective students: <a href="http://www.swarthmore.edu/Humanities/tkitao1/useless.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.swarthmore.edu/Humanities/tkitao1/useless.html&lt;/a> , "THE USEFULNESS OF USELESSNESS," T. Kaori Kitao, William R. Kenan, Jr., Professor of Art History, Swarthmore College. </p>

<p>As excuses for not going to business school and choosing a LAC, 1. I plan on doing internships to keep things practical 2. at my current internship, nothing I do or my bosses do was learned at college (except drinking and other unmentionables). In fact, all necessary knowledge is done with on-the-job training. The business culture at my firm tells me that the point of college is just to get the degree; it's like a requirement to be considered, much like taking SAT's is required. While that's not what I think college is all about, it does counter the vocational school argument a bit.</p>

24

<p>
[quote]
Newmassdad, cangel,homeschoolmom seem to favor lying and deceiving your parents while you take their money for your education

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I certainly do NOT favor lying and deceiving parents while taking their money for their education.</p>

<p>The point of my post was that economics and finance are an important of a political scientist's toolkit. </p>

<p>So my point was that his parents' insistence that he get exposure to economics and finance is actually quite a valid one. Cangel's post made the same point.</p>

<p>I do NOT agree with Newmassdad's recommendation that the OP hide his courses and grades from his parents.</p>

<p>Instead, I recommend that the OP should sit down with his parents, acknowledge that their suggestions that he learn economics and finance are indeed useful and that he should find a way to learn those subjects. Maybe the lectures and textbooks used in his college were ineffective for him, but there are many ways to approach the subject. </p>

<p>
[quote]
The problem for me is that at my college, many of them require a series of pre-requisites in economics first, and after the B- in an intro to microeconomics class that I thought was boring and difficult to grasp,

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Find good alternative texts and other resources, seek out good lecturers, find a good study group, take charge of your learning! </p>

<p>If you're worried about grades because of concerns about law school, consider auditing the prereqs for the learning experience. Your summer internship in finance is potentially an ideal on-the-job-no-grades opportunity to learn. </p>

<p>Accounting isn't brain surgery--you can learn it on your own with a self-study workbook. You don't need to learn enough accounting to BE a CPA, just enough accounting to read balance sheets and income statements and to have an intelligent conversation with the green-eyeshade folks. </p>

<p>Get in the habit of reading the Economist and the Wall Street Journal. There's plenty of interesting stuff in those publications.</p>

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<p>kfc4u, you're a college student now, not a child. It's time forget about what your parents want and start thinking about YOU want for your future. Do YOU think a job in the public sector is beneath you? Do YOU want to travel? It's fine if you're not sure, but don't default to your parents' expectations as a result. It can be scary asking yourself these questions, but you have advisors, counsellors, professors, and fellow students at your school to help you find the answers. Considering the state of the world today, International Relations is an incredibly useful major. It may not be a "feeder" major like engineering or business, but some career exploration after graduation is fine. In fact, I think it's really healthy. It can feel very safe and comfortable to just do what your parents want - but it's time to stand on your own two feet.</p>

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<p>kfc4u - Just a thought on that unpleasant microeconomics course. I was an Econ major in college and also have a Stanford MBA. I didn't care for microeconomics in college. Had to take it again at Stanford, and even tho I have always been a top student, I did NOT find it easy (while I of course figured I should have cruised through it). Something about that subject matter just doesn't agree with me. OTOH, I really love economics and macroeconomics was both more interesting and easier for me. IMHO, macro is the field of econ which will be more relevant to poli sci, international relations, business etc. So don't rule out more econ and business courses.</p>

<p>I do agree with stephable that there is a time when your parents' preferences for you to stay in California (and preferably not go into downtown LA etc. :eek:) have to take backstage to what YOU want. Do what you want with your career and you will find a way, if you are a loving child which it sounds like you are, to help them accept it, I believe.</p>

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<p>Parents who think this way drive me and their kids crazy. These are the same parents who were fretting in kindergarten that their kids were never going to learn to read.</p>

<p>Present them with statistics. Only a small fraction of adults in this country even graduate from 4 year colleges, so a degree in any field gives you a leg up. Find some stats on your college website about the percentage of graduates who are employed a year after graduation. I bet it's close to 100% and that includes all majors.</p>

<p>People who are most successful in their careers are those who find a passion and follow it. It sounds like you are on the right track; you just have set your parents straight. Good Luck!</p>

28

<p>KFC,
That is the way of the older generation. They tend to worry and want to keep their children close. After putting all their efforts into raising and educating their children to be good citizens, our parents have a problem in "letting go" and trusting them to make the right choices. Isn't that ironic? It is tough to get through to them since they have never been to college...yet they are making assumptions about your decisions. Many yrs ago, I had to go down that path and say to my father: "You don't understand...you never went to college." Luckily, my father took it well...and started to trust me more. I know that would not be the norm. We raise our own children very differently...to step outside of their comfort zone and to pursue their passion. My parents are a bit speechless...and, the same time, support their grandchildren and their decisions. Best of luck to you...</p>

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<p>Archermom wrote:

[quote]
After putting all their efforts into raising and educating their children to be good citizens, our parents have a problem in "letting go" and trusting them to make the right choices. Isn't that ironic? It is tough to get through to them since they have never been to college...yet they are making assumptions about your decisions.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>But the original poster wrote that his parents HAD attended college:</p>

<p>
[quote]
My dad is an engineer and my mom is an accountant... both of their majors were pre-professional and targeted at getting a job after 4 years in college.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I think reasonable parents can disagree about the appropriate amount of autonomy for their children at different ages.</p>

<p>College today takes a lot of economic sacrifice from most parents. Some parents may feel comfortable giving their children carte blanche to study anything anywhere. Others, understandably, may not.</p>

<p>Others may feel that they can't justify such a sacrifice unless there is a clear economic payoff.</p>

<p>From an economic point of view, college is an investment in "human capital." It also has many other benefits as well--including those alluded to in the art history proefssor's link above---personal growth and fulfilment, for example.</p>

<p>However, one could imagine other non-college paths that could potentially provide the same benefits. For $160,000 parents could help an 18-year-old child launch his own small business, for example. That too could wind up being an investment in human capital. It could also lead to personal growth and fulfilment.</p>

<p>And yet.I suspect that few parents are willing to trust their children to make the right choices in launching a small business. I suspect most parents would put restrictions and conditions on a child who requested such backing from his parents. They might be willing to back certain kinds of small business undertakings for their children, but not others. I don't think many people would think such parental restrictions would be unreasonable.</p>

<p>Many years ago, I made a lot of what I now consider poor choices in my own selection of college courses. In retrospect, I wish I had taken philosophy and Spanish (courses my father would have liked me to take but which I rebelled against at the time) as well as more courses in history and literature (choices he probably would have like too.) I didn't have very good advising--even though I attended a small liberal arts college with excellent teaching, there wasn't adequate advising and I really could have used some guidance from somewhere.</p>

<p>But my parents had no real leverage in my choices (since my education was almost entirely covered by scholarships with a bit of loan & work self-help on my part) and they also had a general philosophy of non-interference.</p>

<p>I don't regret this--I did make mistakes in my course selection, but nothing that couldn't be remedied later on by self-study. My parents' greatest legacy was a love of learning--my parents were life-long autodidacts who showed me by example it was always possible to learn long after college.</p>

<p>I'm grateful that my parents gave me a lot of intellectual autonomy in college and I, in turn, have given my children a lot of intellectual autonomy--in fact lI have given them a lot of intellectual autonomy long before college, but I don't necessarily fault other parents for making different choices.</p>

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<p>Homeschoolmom,
I stand corrected in not remembering KFS's original post--which I read last night and failed to refer to before posting.</p>

<p>KFC's father sounds a little like my father-in-law...immigrated to US when he was a teen, graduated from Purdue, and Masters in EE from USC. At that time, he made a decent income and raised three children. Surprisingly, after 28 yrs, he took the "golden handshake" and retired from Hughes. Admittedly, he was not a risk taker and, although successful in his profession, it became mundane/routine...now he encourages his grandchildren to find their passion. However, not knowing what he knows now, he did not provide the same encouragement to his OWN children. He discouraged his son from attending UCB---too far away from southern CA...and talked him out of majoring in engineering because of they were a "dime a dozen" at the time...4 yrs later, the market for engineers was wide open. Life is interesting and unpredictable. ;)</p>

31

<p>

Huh? Take a look at the Fortune 500. Almost every company on the list (and cerainly the top 10) is involved in some sort of international business -- be it marketing, manufacturing, trading, services. As Thomas Friedman so compelling writes, the world is getting flatter! Whether you want to actually live overseas, become a "road warrior" or never travel at all is immaterial. Anyone who's considering a career in business needs to get a global outlook, fast.</p>

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<p>Can you do a double major? A lot of kids get 2 degrees (it may take 4.5-5 years), but I know a few kids who are Math/Theater, Engineering/Art etc. Get one degree to please your parents, and one for personal satisfaction, and when graduation rolls around, you can apply for jobs in both fields.</p>

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<p>I don't know why parents want to push their kids into a practical major, because if there are any students like me, they will fret about picking out their major anyway.
I've wanted to be a graphic designer for about two or three years now. I had to pick my classes for fall semester this week, and was completely lost. If I major in an art, so much of my time will be spent on that that I will have to put aside my love of math (of all things :P ). I always wanted a double major in math and art, but it graphic design is so classes packed because of the art and computer components. Two other girls were suppose to major in graphic design, but changed their minds within that day at college. Now I'm wondering how practical it will be for me to major in graphic design.
<em>Sigh</em> Such is college life.</p>

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<p>A big part of the problem with parental pressure is that the data behind the pressure is often sadly outdated. Few parents have been in the new college grad job market for a long time...I doubt the circumstances now are the same as 20, 30 years ago.</p>

<p>"Practical" majors? Biggest mistake in the world (well, at least in career planning).</p>

<p>Let's look at real world events over the past few years, and then my own predictions:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>IT/High Tech/Programming. Hot a few years back, then the dot com bust, which no one saw coming. Need I say more? </p></li>
<li><p>Engineering. Just talk to anyone who has lived in S. Cal. for a few decades about the boom and bust in aerospace engineering, for example.</p></li>
<li><p>Nursing. Great career, high demand up to the early 80s. Then the first wave of health care reform hit, leading to massive hospital closures, consolidation and huge nursing layoffs. This led to a drop in enrollment in training, another round of shortages, the shortages helped by horrendous working conditions etc.</p></li>
<li><p>Accounting. Who would have thought 4 years ago that the field would be so hot now? I predict hiring will be DOA in 4 years, if not earlier, due to dialing back of Sarbanes-Oxley requirements that have so raised the demand now. The field has historically had its own roller coaster qualities anyway. </p></li>
</ul>

<p>So, chase away...</p>

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<p>Right on, NewMassDad.</p>

<p>I've mentioned this story before, but here it goes again:</p>

<p>I started college at the end of the '90s, when there was massive demand for computer engineers due to the dot-com boom and Y2K issues. My dad encouraged me to go into computer engineering (instead of chemical), pointing out that I could get any job and almost any salary with that degree. I stuck with chemical, pointing out that I had no desire to spend my life in front of a computer, writing code. </p>

<p>Four years later: chemical engineers were in high demand; currently, they earn the most of any college grads. Computer engineering is being outsourced to India and many people in that field have a tough time finding jobs. </p>

<p>Just my anecdote for the day.</p>

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<p>What about going into academia?</p>

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<p>You go into academia in spite of the poor job prospects, and always need a backup plan because the numbers have always been humbling.</p>

<p>I should add that the rewards of academia are largely nonmonetary. It is not that top profs are not paid well. It is just that the pay of a star academic is far lower than a star businessperson, lawyer, MD etc.</p>

38

<p>kfc4u,</p>

<p>UCLAri seems to have made it (to Washington) with the same situation as yourself... perhaps it's not so impractical.</p>

39

<p>
[quote]
I don't know why parents want to push their kids into a practical major,

[/quote]
I think I know. Parents dread the prospect that their kid will earn that diploma and walk into job prospects such as waitress, bartender... Many recently minted BA/BS folks hate that prospect themselves. If job prospects are not important to the student, for whatever reason, then not to worry. If job prospects are a concern, the "practical" major push can still be off-base. The mistake they make, imho, is creating a narrow list of "practical" majors. Their narrow list can be wrong for the reasons newmassdad states, or because the "practical" major is a misfit for the student.</p>

<p>I think most kids do want to have career opportunities post-college which excite them, be it in the corporate world, as a starving artist or whatever. The way to do this is to major in what you want, but be ever cognizant of where that major can lead and how you can best use it, your extra-curriculars, your summer/intern/co-op job opportunities to get where you want to be.</p>

40

<p>I just don't see why your parents are so concerned with political science. If this were Art History (forgive me, AH majors) then perhaps their concerns would be warranted but not only is political science the most popular undergraduate major of law students and those in the legal field, but it's widely regarded by graduate schools as being a good, well-rounded liberal arts major. Perhaps you can use graduate school to focus what you want to study into something practical.</p>