Public money should go to public schools not to support an elitist organization. As I said before, Purdue will give you a better engineering education and Bentley at least as good a business education. Lets be honest the only real benefit of Harvard over UC Berkeley, UCLA, GT, and many other great public schools is not the educations its the connections and alumni and the perceived ‘prestige’.
I consider myself a liberal so I go out of my way to read (well-reasoned) conservative viewpoints and one of the best publications I’ve found is the Bulwark…a group of smart conservatives who re-banded after the Weekly Standard went under. Their take on this incident is illuminating…I’ve included a link to their newsletter that you guys might be able to view:
https://mailchi.mp/thebulwark/morning-shots-316081?e=d2405ed450
“But this brings us to the underlying problem here: the fundamental error of making children the avatars of a political cause and pretending that their youth and sincerity imbues them with wisdom, insight, or the qualities usually associated with maturity. The hagiography of the Parkland kids on both sides of the gun issue was both unwise and unfair, because it catapulted them beyond their competency and thrust them into a spotlight that can be both cruel and unforgiving.”
@SouthernHope Thanks for sharing. I think that makes a lot of sense.
“But this brings us to the underlying problem here: the fundamental error of making children the avatars of a political cause and pretending that their youth and sincerity imbues them with wisdom, insight, or the qualities usually associated with maturity. The hagiography of the Parkland kids on both sides of the gun issue was both unwise and unfair, because it catapulted them beyond their competency and thrust them into a spotlight that can be both cruel and unforgiving.”
So true and how some schools promote and attract a certain type of activism as long as it fits into their own agenda; often not founded on anything of substance.
I find it useful in these situations to ask oneself if they would want their daughter or son to date the person in question or even just be friends with them.
Bingo, @SouthernHope! They’re kids, mortals, not gods.
I feel compelled to note this thread isn’t a debate on fed funding. So far, it’s legal for privates to receive.
If you hate it, actively work against it, with your reps.
Do colleges “promote and attract a certain type of activism as long as it fits into their own agenda?”
Not my view or experience. This takes us back to the simplistic 'big bad manipulative schools" world view.
Kyle wasn’t accepted because he fit a liberal profile. He was rescinded because he exhibited behaviors intolerable to this college. Behaviors reveal things like lack of judgment, immaturity, some recklessness, and more.
Very true, but that’s also very true in some cases where an acceptance wasn’t rescinded. One, in our local circle, comes to mind; and we all, naturally, wish him well. There’s probably many, but I guess being in the spotlight puts one, well, in the spotlight.
Not to mention that the moderator “asked” us not to go OT, and federal funding or Harvard vs school X is certainly off-topic.
@collegemom9 That’s just not true. The First amendment (and others) is applicable to state governments via the 14th amendment. So, it’s not just Congress that is restricted. Thus, state universities are subject to constitutional restrictions. Private universities and organizations are not. If a public university rescinded an acceptance because of something an applicant said, there would be grounds for a violation of the applicant’s 1st amendment rights. You don’t have to be arrested, fined, etc. Refusing or taking away benefits may be enough to abridge a person’s speech. And the First amendment frowns upon the abridgment of speech, even (especially) speech we don’t like.
Harvard has the right to do what it wants at this point, as Constitutional restrictions are not applicable. But they better not claim that they value free thinking and expression. That’s just not true in this case.
@yourmomma My apologies, I should have said that it’s only the government that is not allowed to infringe upon our right to free speech. Using the word congress was too limiting. My point is that Harvard is not infringing on anyone’s constitutional rights. This has nothing to do with free speech. I can go around saying the N word all I want (not that I do) but if my employer fires me for using it or a college rescinds my acceptance, my rights have not been violated. Free speech is not necessarily without consequence.
@emilybee says
“I find it useful in these situations to ask oneself if they would want their daughter or son to date the person in question or even just be friends with them.”
I’m on here solely to answer this question.
I have a child who had a best friend all through elementary school. Age 14 begins high school and best friend goes off the rails. The friend was a train wreck in all aspects. I actively kept my child separated from this person.
Around age 17 to 18 the previous best friend started to change drastically. Started recognizing how awful the behavior was and had been.
The friend went on to graduate college (at a school mentioned a lot on CC) in 3 years and on to grad school. In their 20’s, my child and this friend have reconnected and are best friends again and I am very happy for them.
So to answer the question “ if they would want their daughter or son to date the person in question or even just be friends with them.”
At age 16…no
At age 18,20,25 or anywhere in between…it depends. I want my children to have an open mind and evaluate people for who they are in the present. I do not agree with judging people by who they were at age 16.
My child would not have the best friend today if we were still evaluating this person by who they were at 16.
@yourmomma And to your point of Harvard not valuing free speech and expression I strongly disagree. I can value free speech and not believe that someone who uses the N word repeatedly or says “kill the Jews” should be without repercussion. Racist ideology and/or speech falls into a different category and there should be zero tolerance for it on college campuses. Harvard rescinded someone who showed a lack of moral character. Free speech but with consequences. I’m more than ok with that. Someone who says “kill the Jews” is not only morally bankrupt they pose a potential threat.
@emilybee I’ll do you one better…would you want this person to be your daughter or son’s roommate in college? I wouldn’t.
@collegemom9
So what if instead of the college acceptance, they rescinded the guy’s welfare benefits? Or say maybe his student loans or grants?
And it’s the “N” word today, but what will it be tomorrow. We don’t protect speech by censoring it, either directly by law, or indirectly by action/consequences. We protect speech by more, better speech.
Here, we’re talking about college admissions. Leadership and character matter - who a teenager is, what they show promise for. “Kill all Jews” doesn’t show the promise a college wants; using the n-word shows neither maturity nor leadership; and his subsequent behavior, such as the non apology and behavior toward classmates, indicate he’s not “one of the top few in an entire career” but one of many boys who have a lot to learn.
As I said, I’d be 100% in favor of his reapplying and getting in once he’s shown growth.
I think it depends on what “off the rails” entails.
But, imo, this is different than what off the rails usually signifies (drugs, promiscuous behavior, etc.) I don’t equate this student’s behavior as “going off the rails”.
To quote Maya Angelo, “When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.
@collegemom9, yeah. I’d love to see a show of hands amongst the people on this thread who would welcome this kid as their kids roomie.
I’m thinking very few, if any.
Thread’s not about welfare, either.
This kid’s not exhibiting the characteristics that matter alongside academic strengths. You don’t get in just on stats and you risk being rescinded when facts come out that shed serious light on thinking and character issues.
It doesnt matter if someone knows someone not rescinded.
@yourmomma But that’s not what happened and that’s not what this thread is about (and CC is not a debate community) so I’m not going to make that speculation. All I’m saying here is that no rights have been infringed upon here and I’m more than ok with someone being rescinded for hate speech during high school. I’d rather spend more time teaching my kids that their actions have consequences than coming up with scenarios that haven’t happened and aren’t likely to happen. And BTW your examples are about government acts not private college acts. There’s a huge difference. One is protected by the constitution and one is not.