<p>Hello. Recently i've been thinking of going to med school in order to become a surgeon. Law school was my previous choice, but I have decided that med school would be greater for me.</p>
<p>I want to become a surgeon, I just do not know what major I should be majoring in, when to apply for med school, etc. I have a friend who said that his brother is majoring in chemistry. I'm assuming he'll be getting a PhD in chemistry and then be going to med school? But anyways, what's the best path in order to become a surgeon? What's the best major to go for? I just finished my first semester of college with a 4.0, and next semester I need to begin my major classes, so I need to decide quickly and know where to go at this point. And oh, there are different types of surgeons, but I don't have to decide that this early on, correct? </p>
<p>Your first priority would be get into medical school. You can major in anything, but will need to complete several prerequisite courses to apply. The individual schools set their requirements so they vary a bit, but most expect a year of biology, a year of chemistry, a year of organic chemistry, a year of physics, a year of biochemistry, a year of English. Get good grades in these and in whatever else you wish to study. You will need to take the MCAT exam in your third year of college and write applications the summer of third year into fourth. You will then be invited to interview at medical schools and will need to travel for on site interviews and visits to the schools. If all goes well you get into one or more and go study your buns off for another couple years before taking the first of three medical licensing exams and applying to residency training. A PhD in the mix here could extend school by another 3+ years. You will not even apply to surgery programs until the fourth year of medical school. That’s another round of submitting grades, test scores and going on interviews and visits to each one. </p>
<p>Obviously this is a long hard road. You can’t be too focused on the end, better to enjoy the journey. People who put off relationships, travel, etc thinking “I’ll do that when I am done” tend to burn out and be miserable. </p>
<p>@VSGPeanut101 Very helpful, thank you. I still do not know what major to choose, though. Which is the best major to go for if I want to follow that path? And I know I shouldn’t be thinking too much about profit, but which types of surgeons make the most money? I’ve been looking around, but I can’t find any accurate resources. I don’t mind the type of surgeon that I am. All the fields of surgery interest me, so i’m curious to know what types of surgeons make the most out of any other.</p>
<p>There is no undergrad (or, for that matter graduate) major that will smooth your path to becoming a surgeon. Your potential to match into any surgery field is entirely dependent upon your performance in medical school as well as your innate abilities (spatial reasoning ability, ambidexterity, hand-eye coordination, personality type). </p>
<p>As for which surgical sub-specialty makes the highest income–there is a huge variability within each subspecialty depending on factors like type of practice, location of practice, cost of overhead, hours worked per week, state tort and liability laws, etc.</p>
<p>VSGPeanut has given you some excellent advice–you’d be wise to heed it.</p>
<p>I will definitely take his advice, but I am still stuck on what major I should go for. Obviously something like art history won’t help me towards the surgeon career i’m seeking, but which degree is the “smart” degree to go for when it comes to this path that i’m striving for? I fairly enjoy chemistry and math, so if one of those is the better option, I will definitely pursue them. Opinions are needed.</p>
<p>As others have said, there is no “smart degree” or major nor is there one path. Pick a major based on something you like and think you can do very well in…something that interests you. </p>
<p>My son majored in religious studies and linguistics because they both were of interest to him and he knew that once he got to Med school it would be nothing but science so he wanted to broaden himself and learn about things that he deemed interesting. He got into a top 20 med school and is about to complete his second year of a six year surgical residency at another top program.</p>
<p>Worry about getting the best grades you can as an undergrad. Get with the pre med advisor at your school so that you are taking to right/required classes for both med school admission and for MCAT preparation. Many Med students change direction several times during Med school; your rotations during third year ( should you even get into Med school ) will help you determine if surgery is the right path for you. It’s a grueling, long haul and if you are motivated solely by the financial rewards you might be disappointed. </p>
<p>My son has been on q2 and q3 call for the last two months meaning that every second or third day he is on call at the hospital for 30 hours straight. With the hours he is working and a salary in the mid $50s he’s probably below minimum wage while many of his high school and college friends who went the investment banking route have been making big 6 figure salaries for years now. His own sister graduated from Law school just last year and is making almost 3 times what he makes.</p>
<p>With healthcare reform no one knows what the future holds financially and every attending physician he works with said they would not want their own children pursuing medicine today. If you are thinking about being a surgeon because of the potential income, you are pursuing the wrong occupation.</p>
<p>There is nothing wrong with art history or any other humanities major, my daughter majored in Classics and is in med school. It is WAY too early for you to even think about what type of physician you want to be. Keep up the good work on your GPA and work on appropriate EC’s. Good luck.</p>
<p>You can literally major in any field and still go to med school so long as you take the minimum required science coursework.</p>
<p>Personally both my Ds (both med students) majored in mathematics (plus a second major in physics for one and a second major in neuroscience for the other). They have classmates who majored in fields as diverse as forestry, music performance, computer engineering, Spanish, and English lit. </p>
<p>Choose a major that you’re interested in, that you can do well in and that will offer you a Plan B option if you don’t get accepted into med school. (Every year 60% of students who apply to med school get rejected everywhere.)</p>
<p>FWIW, the post-graduation employment outlook for both chem and bio majors is poor.</p>
<p>Op you dream too much, keep up the work and you will be what you will be. If, some one ask you how to become the president of the United States , what will be your answer. Your question is in line with the same as mine above. </p>
<p>@eadad: Are you sure that’s where America is headed? I highly doubt that. Your son, if I’m not mistaken, is making that little because he’s still in a residency program, but once he is done with that program, he will start seeing dollar signs everywhere he turns. Obviously I’m not going to stick to a career solemnly for the money. I enjoy helping people, and knowing that my efforts can save a life ultimately make me enjoy that occupation.</p>
<p>While your post was highly informative and helpful, I just do not see how any physician’s paycheck is going downhill when they’re dealing with 100 times more stress than any banker or lawyer. </p>
<p>Out of curiously, what type of lawyer is his sister?</p>
<p>It is not likely that MD’s of any stripe will be poor, but fewer and fewer will be “rich” as they were in the past. Certainly 100-200K salaries are likely in the foreseeable future.</p>
<p>However, it will be at least 4 years of medical school + 5 years of residency training - more for some surgical specialties. With duty hours limits, there is talk that we may need to make some residency programs even longer. So that is at least 9 years of making little to no money (I know residents who are on food stamps). </p>
<p>Medicine should be thought of as a calling. You should only do it if you’d do it for subsistence pay. Because, you will start your early years far behind those peers who went into law/banking/etc. and you will likely continue to work with a high level of stress (there is no hazard pay for “stress”) for a low “hourly rate” into the foreseeable future. Most fully trained surgeons are working 10 to 12 hour days plus taking overnight and weekend call. </p>
<p>@VSGPeanut101: In all honesty, political science was my first choice. I was following the path to become a lawyer, but many peers have told me that I’d be waiting tables with a degree in political science, which is why i thought a career in medicine would be most beneficial. Not to mention that surgeons make the most out of any occupation. I definitely would not mind the stress knowing that I’d be making up to 400K after residency and a few more years after it.</p>
<p>Well in that case, do the poli sci degree and also do the med school requirements. You will have options to apply to med school or law school (or both if you really want to make money!). If you end up being a physician with a knack for bureaucracy/policy you will be in a position to be on top of the heap as medicine becomes more corporate (less private practice).</p>
<p>@VSGPeanut101 Most informative. I will do that. But anyways, as an overview, do you really believe that people who go down the medicine path will be led to disappointment when it comes to the pay? Again, the pay isn’t my solemn reason to get into medicine, but it does play a big factor. Of course we can’t predict where the economy will be headed these following years to come, but I’m really convinced that future physicians will be making over 200k, despite all debates. </p>
<p>I apologize for reposting an earlier comment but the road to med school is littered with bright, wide eyed premed hopefuls. I suspect other people can provide more accurate numbers but I’ll guess that 130-140K??? students typically show up the first day of college every year claiming to be “premed”, 80-90K (including repeaters) actually end up taking the MCAT, with 40-50K actually applying, with around 19K actually getting accepted to at least one med school.</p>
<p>Here you’ve already been bouncing between law and medicine and now you’re focused on surgery with no apparent connection while you’re still struggle with picking a college major?? </p>
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<p>As you have so many high hurdles yet to get over to be one of those 19K newly admitted med students, make your life easy by picking a major that you like. Med schools won’t care what your major is. They will care if you do well GPA wise in your major and remaining GEs. Doing well (high GPA) in prereq science courses is critical as it offers evidence that you can successfully handle arguably difficult science material. Develop close relations with faculty who will be in position to write you strong LORs. Rock MCAT. Involve yourself in meaning EC activities. Be able to articulate in a personal statement why you want to be in medicine. If after applying you get offers to interview, do well in interviews. You may feel quite confident with your one semester of a 4.0 GPA under your belt but again lots and lots of would be premeds crash and burn along the way.</p>
<p>Then assuming you get into med school, no one will really care anymore about what you did in college. In effect you’ll start with a clean slate. In order to get into a surgical residency, rinse and repeat… good GPA, good STEP 1/2 scores, high class ranking, personal statement about why surgery, LORS, etc.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t describe the above as the best pathway, but more so the only pathway.</p>
<p>@Jugulator20 Thank you for that information. Yes, I see that 140k wish to get into medicine while only 19k actually end up doing it due to the vast and hard road along the way, but with the effort and dedication that I have, I believe that I have what it takes to pursue that career. I will definitely build relationships with the staff in order to receive letters of recommendations. Thank you for the advice. I might just major in chemistry.</p>
<p>I’m well aware that his income will go up when he finishes his residency. My point was that while he was in Med school for four years, then residency for 6 and two more for a fellowship ( that’s 12 more years AFTER undergrad) his friends who chose other career paths like Investment banking or even Big Law have been making six figure and in some cases, significant six figure incomes while he was making nothing to little to nothing with his relatively low resident’s salary. It will take him a long time before he even catches up to the level of wealth /income they have accumulated during that 9-12 year head start. </p>
<p>I was merely addressing your comment about income and trying to show you that there are a lot of ways to make far more money than taking the Med school route these days and even more that being a Doctor or Surgeon is no longer a guarantee of making big money.</p>
<p>With the advent of healthcare reform most specialties, even surgeons will no longer be making the same kind of money they once did. Granted a few specialties like plastic surgery may be less significantly impacted but even today’s “money train” of bariatric surgery is currently under government review and changes in reimbursements and requirements are already changing things in a big way.</p>
<p>My wife has been very involved in healthcare reform for the last four plus years and can attest first hand how reimbursements have changed and incomes are in many cases significantly lower than what they were even a few years ago. You’re very wrong if you think that being any type of physician will be as financially lucrative as it once was. </p>
<p>Become a doctor / surgeon because you want to help people and be a difference maker, not because you see it as a means to a financial windfall. Those days are over, I’m sad to say.</p>
<p>And if you don’t believe me, go talk to some current physicians…three of my closest friends are Doctors and to a person they are very troubled by what they see happening. They still make a nice living when compared to many others but they are all having to work more, do more procedures, etc to maintain their income levels. One has recently closed his practice and gone on the staff at UTSW where he draws a salary and his staff and insurance are all paid for by UTSW. He nets less than he previously did but also doesn’t have the pressure to maintain an office, pay a staff and for malpractice insurance like he once did.</p>
<p>Going forward many people in healthcare feel that the days of running a true private practice are numbered and that most future docs will be employees of a hospital group or university/ Med school affiliated teaching hospital.</p>